Comment by dvlat | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dvlat | Hacker News Reader

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Look, they say that the sample is representative, but is it really? Let me try this:

"According to the survey (the sample is representative) around 20% Russians support the war"

You won't trust me, but why do you trust the quoted resource without verification? The two countries are at war and while Russian propaganda is horrible, it doesn't mean that everything else is 100% true. Note that I'm not blaming the victim, the situation is close to black and white. I'm only asking whether you really believe that 75% people support the ongoing war and support starting war with multiple other countries?

There's one more aspect. Even if the sample is representative by sex/age/income/education level etc, some people may be scared to tell their opinion to a stranger over the phone. The government labeled those against the war as traitors and who knows what's the real intent of people asking such questions over the phone.

How do you think, if the war was so popular, would there be a need for stricter laws and calling people traitors?

I lived in USSR, and suppression of speech and opposition is exactly needed to have such high popularity. The transition into 199x shown that informed population doesn't allow to sustain such high popularity, and this is why Russian regime has been tightening the screws back over the last 22 years.

>some people may be scared to tell their opinion to a stranger over the phone

Yet, there is no need to enthusiastically point to a next country. Almost all pointing to the same one is extremely suggestive of it being a genuine result.

>I'm only asking whether you really believe that 75% people support the ongoing war and support starting war with multiple other countries?

Yes. Of course most of those people aren't going to fight themselves. And it will take some time and more sanctions before they start to question the situation. With all the sanctions the life in Russia is still much better than at the beginning of 199x, and until that the Russians feel just fine finding satisfaction in resisting that "American attack on them". And don't forget that "Ukraine was with American help making nuclear and biological weapons to attack Russia".

I was too young to remember how was it in USSR and left Russia roughly 10 years ago. It's hard for me to believe in 75%, even considering state propaganda. Maybe things changed, I don't know.

> Yet, there is no need to enthusiastically point to a next country. Almost all pointing to the same one is extremely suggestive of it being a genuine result.

We don't know how many people refused to answer.

Don't get me wrong, I think even 20% support is unacceptable, and my gut feeling tells me that it is higher than that. Just not 75%. However, sadly I agree that situation is bad and shock therapy may be necessary. We'll see if it helps.

70% of RF population supports war. That's data from liberals who'd like to see different results. You should know public oppinion of Ichkeria (1994) occupation, Georgia (2008) occupation, Afganistan (1979) occupation.

Sure they are brainwashed, but their soldiers kills innocent and population supports this "special operation". Just like in Nazis Germany.

Okay, looks like your number is already lower than 75%.

Don't get me wrong, I hate what is happening and sick of Kremlin propaganda. If you are willing to have a constructive discussion, we can chat, otherwise please skip the rest. I'm on your side and support Ukraine in every way I can. Also, I admit that I haven't been to Russia in long time and don't know what exactly is happening there right now - I hope that the support is not overwhelming. I could be wrong.

I suspect that it's difficult to conduct a proper survey because I heard something (from a friend) that I haven't heard since 1990s (from parents): "this is not a phone conversation". That made me think that some people may not be comfortable telling their opinion to a stranger over the phone.

Data from liberals (is it Navalny's team?) was collected in rush and they admitted that the methodology is far from perfect. Iirc in their report they indicated that day after day the numbers were lower, which could be the result of the misinformation at the beginning.

Re public opinion about other wars: you listed many things and we'll not be able to discuss everything in this thread. I'm only curious why you went as far back as Afghanistan? Last I checked, it was the Soviet Union that invaded Afghanistan - are you sure that the public opinion in Ukraine at the time was significantly different from other republics? I'm really curious if you have any data to back it up (genuine question, willing to learn). If you wanted to add another "this is **ed up" story, Moldova would be an easier example?

Popular opinion collected by Maxim Katz team

* https://russianfield.com/netvoine (end of the 02.2022)

* https://russianfield.com/zamir (05.03.2022-07.03.2022)

almost no changes. Yes, a lot of people decline but that's not the only evidence. People quite often share in YouTube comments that everyone around supports war.

I've mentioned Afghanistan because 3000 Ukrainians died in this war. I am Russian speaking from Kharkiv, I know what is Russian chauvinism and imperialism from the inside. I could also mention Soviet-Finland war (1939), Holodomor (1933), occupation of Ukrainian National Republic (UNR), same line by Kremlin imperialists.

I have no data on Ukrainians opinion of Afghanistan war, but times were different, we've got Internet now, so many ways to discover truth. That's why I've mentioned Ichkeria (1994), I had no understanding what was there until RF occupied Ukrainian Donbas. Clearly that was occupation and genocide by RF but what's your opinion? Do you enjoy RF troops song:

    А мы береты на лоб надвинем
    И автоматы удобней сдвинем
    И с улыбкою веселой
    Мы будем жечь чужие села

I have a mix of guilt, fear, shame and anger when look at photos from Kharkiv.

I realized that it's so easy for this discussion to go sideways and it was not my intention. Everything what is happening is like a nightmare, even after 2014.

This is the first time I see this song, it's disgusting. Also, I stopped following Katz after I learned that he was on Moscow dept of transportation payroll. Imo anyone taking money from state owned organizations is compromised.

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