Ask HN: Why are there no open-source printers? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Why are there no open-source printers?

47 pointsdesertraven35 comments

I often hear people complaining of high ink prices. Specifically purchasing a printer such that when the time comes to replace the ink, buying a new printer is the cheaper option.

Not to mention the whackamole game wherein more affordable, aftermarket ink cartridges are made incompatible.

Why isn’t there a printer that is open source, and whose compatible cartridges are affordable? No investment required in taking security measures to exclude cartridges of a different manufacturer

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Previously discussed here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30493997 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786721

tldr: patents on good nozzles

Can it be worked around by making the design use an existing nozzle, given they can be acquired on the secondary market? A lot of the "badness" of printers is in the software, so having free software but a proprietary print head will still be an upgrade.

I did a PhD on sprays and I am a former patent examiner. I'm pretty skeptical that nozzle patents are a bottleneck here. Maybe other patents are but I don't think there's been a lot of innovation in inkjet printer nozzles since then, though I'm not an expert specifically on inkjet printer nozzles. I skimmed both links and didn't see any discussion of nozzle patents specifically and only a bit of discussion of nozzles.

Edit: If someone can point to a particular active patent that would actually prevent someone from making an open source inkjet printer and they actually have the money to invalidate the patent, I wouldn't be surprised if I could find prior art to invalidate the patent. The examiners don't get a lot of time so a large fraction of patents are not actually valid.

Okay but patents only last 20 years, maximum, right? So what's stopping someone from copying a design from 20 years ago? Consumer/small-business class printers from 20 years ago were just as good as printers today.

There's none because you haven't made one, stop asking and go build one.

With that said, I have never found the cost of ink to be expensive. I have a laser printer and on my 2nd ink in almost 10yrs. For my HP inkjet, I buy "unofficial" ink from Amazon for cheap and it lasts. I use the laser for B&W and HP for things that need color.

I'd be pretty interested in a super cheap pen plotter type printer (one that can do multiple pages like a normal laserprinter) and just take regular ballpoint pens.

I hacked my 3D printer to do that, and used it to make our wedding invitations and they turned out beautiful, much much nicer than printing the graphics.

That sounds really interesting (and congratulations)! Do you have any pictures of the invitations? And how did you get the 3d printer to print your document?

Thanks! :)

I don't have any pictures, but they basically look like someone with an amazing handwriting did the invitations.

I started writing the text in inkscape using a "cursive handwriting font" and then converted the text outline to a single vector patch that I converted to gcode, there is a plugin for inkscape that will make it into a gcode description that "lifts" the pen at the right times.

Then I 3D printed a pen holder to attach to the printhead of my 3d printer, and used some rubberbands to hold a pen to it.

Here's a video of the printer in action, drawing a picture I made in inkscape: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvS1PObU8PI

That's cool!

I've been looking into pen plotters to make some art prints but can't justify the cost of it. A 3d printer though sounds great. Can already think of some projects to use one for.

The text looks crisp!

Way back in the late nineties I scanned my father’s signature, transformed it into a vector image with Corel Vector, and then would use a dumpster-dived plotter to sign any school document I needed to get his signature on.

Too cheap? https://www.brachiograph.art/index.html

Very cool!

The toner cartridges for Brother B&W laser printers are reasonably priced.

The Epson EcoTank inkjet printers accept any ink you want to use.

People are just buying the wrong printers.

I have a Dell laser that I love... I'd have to look up the model (1365? 1370?). Not open source per se but bought because of compatibility with Linux and works like a charm. There's a setting for using third party cartridges, which are pretty widely available, even though the Dell ones aren't too bad of a deal given their capacity. I love the printer.

I went with it after looking on Linux forums for most Linux friendly laser printers.

I'm looking for a good printer that's as close to Linux-compatible as possible (ideologically and functionally), and it seems like yours may fit the bill. Would be interested to know what the model is.

So I looked it up and I was pretty off with the model number... it's a Dell C1760nw.

I don't think they sell it anymore unfortunately but maybe there's some new equivalent?

I found it by just reading threads and articles about Linux compatibility and at the time this was one that kept coming up. Maybe printers have changed in the intervening time though.

I see. Thanks for getting back with the model, though. I'll add that into my options to check for. Appreciated.

> Why are there no open-source printers?

I don't know. But I think it's a fine idea. Pick a print head that's easily available as an aftermarket replacement part, and the rest of the bits can be scrounged from 3D printer suppliers.

I abandoned the whole inkjet thing for the same reason most people do - dried-up print heads and refill hassles. After looking at my options for lasers, I got the next best thing to an open-source laser - a 20th-century HP Laserjet "milk crate". The supply of new and used repair parts is plentiful, toner cartridges are about as cheap as they get, native drivers are available for most operating systems, and detailed factory service manuals are available if you want them.

With covid, at least where I live, they sped up paperless (and cashless). Before covid I had to print something to sign (usually for my companies or gov) about once a year, now that is digital. I (and my companies) haven’t had printers for over 10 years now; if printing was needed, we had it done at a shop; now that is not needed anymore either.

In short; my bubble or why is anyone still using printers? I know some countries still use printers; like HK where you have to send everything business or gov on paper still. I am rather for paperless as it makes things environmentally better and so much easier (sending envelops is a real pita if you don’t live in a city; last one I sent took 6 weeks to arrive in HK).

I barely use my printer, but here's some anecdotal evidence of why I still have one:

- I printed out my COVID vaccine certificates and lateral flow test proof to get entry to a club, because it's in an area of the city with poor mobile reception and I wanted to make sure I could get in without any faff

- I printed out my D&D DM notes because having six sheets of paper spread out in front of you is like having three extra monitors (on top of the laptop and tablet I was already using)

- I printed out my teaching notes for a series of drumming workshops, because the workshop venue is underground and has no reception, plus it's easier to read notes in big print while you're teaching instead of having to squint at a screen. I also printed a stack of individual handouts (simple sheet music for what they'd be playing) for attendees.

- I printed out a form to sign for my financial advisor, who doesn't seem to use digital signing

- My partner printed out a sign to stick up behind him at an event

Honestly I could probably get by just using my office laser printer, but it's very convenient having one at home.

Nothing is true if it's not on a piece of paper in Germanys Healthcare System ;) We sadly print through multiple sliced trees in a year. Can't wait for the whole system to be digitalized. There's so much work that could be automated if nobody needs to carry paper around.

Ah! Anecdote; a friend of mine had an issue in Dresden for which they needed his Dutch health records; the Dutch public clinic sent an ambulance with 2 drivers to Dresden to deliver them on a cd. And then left again. The German doctors were absolutely flabbergasted how backward NL was in that regard. They said why don’t they just email an encrypted version? Not allowed. Summer of 2020.

Decorative and entertainment applications still need paper, digital completely breaks immersion in things like LARPing, and there's all kinds of crafts that need them.

Plus, we still need them for labeling and making high detail front panels at home.

Other than that, I'm all for completely going all paperless, it's often months in between the times I actually use a pen, and I'm usually rather annoyed if anyone tries to send physical paperwork in 2022.

Unfortunately every reason I'd print something requires color, so inkjet is pretty much the only option.

I have kids at home since the pandemic, my printing went from minimal to a lot, that means lots of worksheets for home schooling activity. Things for them to color, practice their writing, trace, etc.

Printed documents are great for quick dissemination and notes of handouts in meetings.

>In short; my bubble or why is anyone still using printers?

I echo what segmondy said about school printables: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30710791

And what HWR_14 said about meetings: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30710950

Or eternityforest about decorations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30709741

Personally, I also use printouts for marking-up notes in classes I'm taking, or for signing things that can't be signed electronically

And I print handouts for classes I teach - enabling everyone present to follow-along and take them home for further review (if they so choose)

Buy a laser printer. My toner lasts for years.

HP CP2025. Bought in 2009 – think I've replaced one toner cartridge since then? Still going strong!

This is medium tech: mecanically precise design (motors, alignment system, etc) and in many countries it is a patent mine field. Namely, you could release as open source the blue print _and_ build process of a nano-metric accurate motor, with a nano-metric laser interferometer alignment system, but I would not be surprised to see many corps coming at you and not the friendly way.

I thought the open source (in fact free source) started with printer driver ... It is always closed but you can hack it. As regards for the ink it is a different matter. Can you have open source printer but the ink is sort of close in some sense. You can open the source but not the keys I wonder.

There are inkjet printers that use bottled ink, but inkjet printers basically suck either way. Cartridges dry out, print heads clog, etc. TLDR: get a laser printer.

I owned exactly one ink jet printer. Every time I went to use it, it was clogged, out of ink, etc. Only bought one set of cartridges for it and then chucked it all in the bin.

I only buy B&W laser printers, currently using a Brother MFC - printer, copier, scanner, duplexer. Always works. A toner cartridge lasts about 2 years and buy white-label equivalent. It costs less than half of the Brother branded one.

Color laser is usually too expensive and bulky for home use.

The Canon PIXMA six ink like seems to be pretty resistant to drying up and clogging. The inks just run out really fast and cost a lot, but that doesn't matter if you only print a few pages a year.

> Color laser is usually too expensive and bulky for home use.

There are small color laserprinters, but they need expensive DRM protected cartridges so they are as bad as cheap inkjets.

> The Canon PIXMA six ink like seems to be pretty resistant to drying up and clogging. The inks just run out really fast and cost a lot, but that doesn't matter if you only print a few pages a year.

I've owned such a printer. While the output is beautiful, they flush a bit of ink everytime when powered on so while that makes then more resistant to drying up a lot of the expensive ink does not end up on your printouts. Beside that: my print head clogged anyway and the only replacement was as expensive as a new printer. Won't recommend.

Feel like the paper printing domain should be split between bulk/low-res grayscale needs & high quality multicolour ones.

The former should be something the 3D printing ecosystem can easily come together around.

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