Comment by cesaref | Hacker News Reader

Comment by cesaref | Hacker News Reader

I worked for a european investment bank for a number of years, and they had a policy that every year, every employee (without exception) was required to take 2 weeks holiday as a contiguous block, and during that time, their access to the company was removed, so no email access, no remote login, keycard access to the office removed etc. They basically ran the 'suspend this person from the organisation' script and restored you when you returned after your holiday.

This was primarily in place to reduce the risk of fraud in the trading/operations side of the business, but it had the side effect that it made it very obvious if the business depended on someone being in the office, since managers would have to cope with people being off and unavailable for 2 weeks. It of course also covered people leaving, or being hit by a bus etc.

Overall I thought it was a very simple mechanism to avoid the business risk of being exposed to one employee both from a business as usual, and also from a fraud point of view, and also made it much easier for people to free themselves from a particular role.

That is brilliant! In the US it isn't that unusual to find companies that don't even offer 2 weeks vacation in total though.

Come on. Outside of the lowest-level hourly positions, you're not going to find any US company that doesn't offer at least two weeks vacation.

Sadly, there are too many companies that offer zero PTO in the first year.

The federal government gives 0.5 days leave per every 2 weeks worked. Note that that implies 0.5*(52/2) = 13 days possible to accrue in a year.

I think showing the feds do it should sway you pretty far away from your above position. If not, I'm curious what evidence could be provided that would.

The 13 days off (2 weeks and 3 days, you don't spend it on weekends) is just the first 3 years. For years 3-15 you get 4 weeks (20 days) per year. After that you get 26 days/year. They also get 13 days of sick leave per year with no max accrual. Regular leave maxes at 30 days accrued, you have to have 30 days or less at the end of the calendar year, anything beyond that is lost (use it or lose it). And now they get 11 federal holidays, sometimes more depending on who is president and when Christmas Eve and Christmas fall. It's not uncommon for late-career (15+ years) folks to have max accrued leave every year, which means they can potentially take 56 days + 11 holidays off the next year if they want, sums up to 13 weeks depending on how they use the leave. Of course, you can only do that about every 2-4 years. 2 years if you spend one year without using any leave, which would be pretty miserable. If you're smart about that 26 days, it becomes 6 weeks off instead of just 5 by pairing it with holidays.

They can also earn "credit hours", up to 24 hours of accrued time off by working ahead (an extra hour here and there, unpaid but becomes leave) and comp time (same, but no technical limit, becomes overtime pay if unused).

And there's now 12 weeks of paid maternity and paternity leave, which is better than most companies in the US.

Of course, the pay is lower which is why it's harder to keep technical talent. And as you move up the GS ranks it's a lot like moving up the officer ranks in the military, a shift from technical (at the lower levels) to managerial/leadership (at the higher levels). Which means there are effective caps on people who want to remain purely (or more purely) technical and avoid supervisory roles (outside of, perhaps, team or project leadership positions).

Using the federal gov. as an example of the lack of vacation was pretty funny when they tend to have very generous standard days off, and move up accrual rates pretty quickly.

Indeed. Federal employee benefits are actually pretty good, it's the pay that's not so great.

You might get 10 business days of PTO, to be used as vacation, sick time, parental leave, etc.

The thing is there are no laws enforcing any time off in the US.

So what you get isn’t standardized or available across the board. Generally I haven’t found any that offer less than two weeks, but… I have absolutely worked places that give you the time off but penalize you socially or otherwise if you dare to take it.

For 6 years, I've worked for a outsourcing firm which has given me 7 days of vacation, and only FOUR US holidays. It wasn't until this year that they expanded that to 10 days, and STILL won't give us Christmas Eve. (The company I'm placed in gets a week and a half at Christmas, full stop.) I'm a very senior person for the company, and I'm sure I'm one of the largest PO's they have. Please come talk to my management about how "any" company doesn't offer "at least" 2 weeks of vacation.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong. This situation works for me very well, but the average vacation situation in the US is abysmal.

Oh how I envy the luxurious life you must have had to reach this conclusion

Oh boy, are you out of touch, kudos.

The US financial industry has almost the exact same contiguous time off requirement for the same reasons.

Can you provide a source or examples? Asking out of ignorance—I've worked in insurance and currently work for a US-based financial services company, but haven't heard of this practice before.

It happens at most major investment banks, although to my knowledge the mandatory "two weeker" is generally limited to employees who manage risk like traders. It forces another person on the trading desk to be responsible for their carried positions which should help identify any mismarking or other types of fraud.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390444914904577615...

It is typically referred to as YAR (yearly absence requirement)

https://www.newyorkfed.org/banking/circulars/10923.html

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