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Comment by D13Fd | Hacker News Reader

I really don't like that they picked permanent DST.

Does no one realize that this means that we all have to get up one hour earlier year round? That kids will have to travel to school in the dark for the majority of the year, including in most cases standing around in the freezing cold at unlit bus stops?

It's still better than resetting the clocks. But I really they should have chosen standard time.

Also, this means nothing unless passed by congress as well.

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Does no one realize that this means that we all have to get up one hour earlier year round?

9 months after the final change, it'll just be regular time and it'll no longer be early.

That kids will have to travel to school in the dark for the majority of the year, including in most cases standing around in the freezing cold at unlit bus stops?

Why are your stops unlit? I mean, that isn't due to the time, but a basic infrastructure failure. In some areas, though, a neighborhood will communally pay for a streetlight - you might be able to get some installed in your neighborhood.

I'll mention that kids here (Norway) walk to school in the dark and freezing weather. They stand at bus stops, too. Not a big deal.

It affects folks up north more where we leave in the dark and come home in by the dark and it totally sucks. This way us north folks will see an extra hour of light in the winter maybe do more outside stuff after work.

I'm the person you replied to - and I'm in Norway. I'm north. In July, the sun technically goes down but I can read outside at night. In December, there is only about 4.5 hours of sunlight - 10:00 to 14:30. Folks here are not doing anything outside after work because of daylight because most folks work during the daylight hours.

It isn't so bad and you get used to it.

If I go much further north, I'm above the arctic circle and it gets even more extreme.

Daylight savings time, up here, doesn't help with light at all. It merely makes it easier to coordinate time with other European countries.

The northern most parts of the USA are much lower (except Alaska) for folks in Washington or Maine sundown is right around 5 in the winter dark at 530. The extra hour is a big bonus of usable time. Every time we switch i no longer can take my kids to the playground in the daylight after work and it sucks

I'm from the US - the midwest, actually. I'm telling you, you just get used to it and it isn't a big deal any more. People say it is a big deal and it just isn't after a while.

> That kids will have to travel to school in the dark for the majority of the year, including in most cases standing around in the freezing cold at unlit bus stops?

If we cared at all about the children, schools wouldn't start so early. Let's make this change and then mandate a later start time for all schools that get federal funding. That's what we'd do if we cared about the children.

But the reality is that school is also daycare, and parents have to be involved in dropoff or even in riding the bus in many cases.

Precisely. "It's about the kids" is never genuine. It's always about everyone other than the kids.

"It's about the kids" is really "it's about the hassle for adults of dealing with kids' schedules when they are 1 hour earlier." But there is nothing wrong with that in my view.

I've seen people suggesting this and it doesn't make sense. So we're going to switch to DST permanently which means we all permanently get up an hour earlier and change schools so they all start (presumably) an hour later? You're effectively doing the same thing as if we just stayed on standard time only with the added inconvenience for parents who now have to figure out what to do with their kids if they have jobs that start early.

I'm saying it's never about the kids. Most schools start too early, and nobody really cares. You're talking about inconvenience for parents, and yes, that's what's driving these decisions.

I live in Southern California which means no freezing cold and no school buses. Not sure what the rest of the country is thinking.

> Does no one realize that this means that we all have to get up one hour earlier year round?

What does that even mean?

When the clock changes, it feels one hour early because you were used to something different.

By eliminating clock time changes, it's just the time it is. No concept of "one hour early" anymore.

> That kids will have to travel to school in the dark for the majority of the year, including in most cases standing around in the freezing cold at unlit bus stops?

In my experience kids have superior night vision and rarely care about what temperature it is outside.

I would've fucking rioted if they picked permanent "standard" time.

I don't care about kids or their bus stops. Also, just put some lights on them, then (the bus stops, or the kids, doesn't really matter).

It also means that they'll get out of school early enough to exercise and play in the sunlight. I'd take that any day.

Flipside to that is the sun setting at 4:30 in the winter. I think this also makes solar ever slightly more viable sans storage.

So, why not just have schools start one hour later starting in the fall in the areas where that is an issue?

Is it any better for them to leave school in the dark? Isn't it just the same thing?

It's not, because they aren't standing around waiting for a bus on the way home, they can just head inside.

Then perhaps school buses can change their protocol so that children don't have to be waiting outside for the pickup. Or maybe there can be some sort of notification system installed. Or some other solution to fix this specific use case without upending everything else with a massive clock shift. This is a technology forum.

The massive shift is moving to DST year round instead of standard time. Our work and school schedules are not adjusted for standard time in the winter, when it actually makes a difference.

What work and school schedules are dependent upon the sun?

> Is it any better for them to leave school in the dark?

yes, it is. you're already awake and unlikely to fall asleep at that point.

waking up for school is hard enough without the sun being up.

Sounds like this is a good case to shift class starting times to earlier in the morning, at least during the darker months. It would be a health benefit to allow children to sleep in longer anyway. And changing school start times is a lot less disruptive than changing the clock itself.

https://www.sleepfoundation.org/school-and-sleep/later-schoo...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evidence-based-livin...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/teenage-sleep-remote-l...

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