Android 12 forces you to choose a default browser unless you disable Chrome

The solution to the Youtube-problem is to use a Youtube-frontend like Invidious [1] in combination with an extension like Privacy Redirect [2] of libredirect [3] so you don't need to touch the Youtube site at all. The same works for things like Twitter and Reddit (which can be redirected to front-ends offering the same content) or Google Maps, Google Search and Google Translate (which get redirected to alternative services). Some of these alternatives - Invidious for Youtube, Nitter for Twitter, libreddit for Reddit - can (but don't have to) be run on your own server, others use established services. This way you get the benefits of accessing content from adversarial services like Twitter and Youtube without having to interface with them directly on any device you use, not just that phone you happened to install some alternative front end like Newpipe on. You can "subscribe" to Youtube channels without telling Google you did so, you can access those subscriptions from anywhere, etc.

Ditch that Youtube app and while you're at it ditch the rest of those Google apps as well. Freedom is just one click away: Are you sure you want to uninstall this app? [OK].

[1] https://github.com/iv-org/invidious

[2] https://github.com/SimonBrazell/privacy-redirect

[3] https://github.com/libredirect/libredirect

Can you clarify what you want to do exactly?

3rd party apps can still register on Youtube URLs, the process just changed a bit. And being affected in my app[1] by this change myself I have to say that this permission-style model is an improvement IMO.

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lambdasoup...

Can't you install Newpipe and select that as the default way to open youtube links? (Assuming you don't object to doing that of course.)

This isn't true? I discovered Vanced a few weeks ago, and YouTube links are opening just fine after disabling the links on the official app and enabling them in the Vanced.

Try opening a Google maps link on iOS without Google maps installed. Annoying.

If you need a chrome browser, would using another chrome based browser work?

Are there any instances of this link hijacking crap on iOS as well?

So I'm currently moving to new phone, after 4 years. My Firefox history is essential to me, it is a huge, indispensable and private index for stuff I know. And now it is taken as hostage by the lovely Mozilla foundation, since the only supported way to transfer it to my new phone is by using their syncing service.

I don't want to have account there, nor do I want to create mail account for creating one. Offering users no other choice to get their data is user hostile on a degree akin to Google's level. It boils my blood.

Another thing to point out that a lot of long-time Android users (or even iPhone users) don't know: Safari on iOS recently gained browser extension support.

While iOS Safari had a content blocker API and password manager integration, it now has support for full browser extensions that can do more.

Probably the only downside to iOS extensions is that they're more frequently paid, since developers need to have paid Apple development accounts. uBlock Origin itself is not available, but there are alternative content blockers with similar features.

Here are some neat ones: https://www.macrumors.com/guide/ios-15-safari-extensions/

You can also set a "Private DNS" in the Android settings menu to dns.adguard.com and block (most) ads system-wide, including those in any ad-riddled "free" games/apps.

The browser situation on Android sucks. I test every browser I try like this: Can it scroll through Imgur properly? Sadly, only Chrome and Brave pass this test (its been a while since I tried Edge, but it used to fail at this too). Luckily Brave has decent ad blocking built in.

Yes and it works fine except for one minor issue: no Firefox Sync support for uBlock rules.

Otherwise it's fantastic. It's so good that I wouldn't consider using the internet without it. My iPad doesn't have it, and I practically never use its web browser.

uBlock Origin and DOZEN of other extensions!!

No others allowed.

Unless you use a beta version and do a weird thing with accounts and a website.

And it's been broken this way for years now.

Firefox seems to be trying hard to keep their benefits over chrome as minimal as possible.

Does Google ever provide a rationale for why they continue to twist Android internals to use More Google?

It is possible that 98% of people aren't as familiar with digging through said menus, and that they would prefer having a default application, and that this is the way to force it.

I don't enjoy power-user features and functions being removed from a device, but I've come to expect it on mobile. I don't think it is always willful "evil". It may just be "this is how most people do it, this is a way to simplify code/UX/etc." and they pull the trigger without thinking about the HN or reddit thread with a few people complaining.

Perhaps when you uninstalled a default third-party browser before, it was setting the default to None? Eg. install Firefox -> delete it -> now links take an extra click to actually open in a browser.

This is only if you really want to be able to open different browsers depending on which link you click. You can still set the default to some other browser and forget it.

Interesting bug in fdroid's search, "Open Link With" returned no relevant results but "Open With" returned the expected app first.

Seems to be the M.O. of these companies. Get a comfortable and safe/monopolistic position and then screw the users over.

It's so funny how everything seems open and promising until they reach a certain size and then it suddenly starts to be restrictive and closed.

Then you'd need to first pay for a phone that isn't bootlocked to a certain OS. Not many phones are.

Once your Android phone is boot-unlocked, it's actually pretty straightforward to flash a LineageOS rom. It could be streamlined, sure, but since the hard part is unlocking and tends to require some tech skills, not many need the flashing to be any simpler than it is.

While not one click, GrapheneOS is fairly easy to install (series of clicks on the phone and a web page), and does not require digging through forum posts.

However, it is based on AOSP and only supports relatively recent Pixel phones. Also, like all non-Android/non-iOS phones, some apps may or may not work on it. Depending on your phone use case, this may or may not be acceptable.

https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 and https://pine64.org/pinephone.

> I would pay

But no one else would. You won't get the same level of support, features, or app compatibility unless you're willing to pay the salary of those who will make it possible, or you're able to find a niche group of people (eg. a million developers) to split the cost of making this possible. The OS duopoly is only a thing because making a functional & useful mobile operating system takes a enormous amount of human effort by some of the most skilled people in their fields.

I paid for Symbian and Windows Phone as long as I could, it did not help.

I'm very happy with my Fairphone 3+ bought here:

https://esolutions.shop/

They sell mobiles with /e/OS preinstalled, which is their privacy enhanced version of LineageOS (Android).

You’re in luck!

https://sailfishos.org/

Technically, Sailfish is what you're asking for, though it's a little bit niche, Europe-focused, and only supported on specific Sony devices: https://sailfishos.org

> I despise apple because of their design choices that prevent you from doing even the simplest tasks.

That seems a little dramatic. I'm quite sure that iPhone owners are able to complete "simple tasks."

I'd recommend trying a device with a recent iOS version, giving it a chance, and seeing if that opinion still rings true. The iPhone as a platform is a lot more open and flexible than it used to be.

I switched from Android in 2016, and the most shocking thing about it was just how much of the experience is essentially identical to Android. Apple and Google have been borrowing identical features from each other for quite some time now.

If you last tried iOS back when Steve Jobs was alive, you might think that all of these things couldn't be done on iOS:

- Install full browser extensions (introduced in iOS 15)

- Integrate with 3rd party password managers (iOS 12)

- Change default browser, email apps. (Default navigation app still can't be changed, sadly.)

- Removing icons from the home screen without uninstalling the app (iOS 15)

- Adding widgets to your home screen (iOS 14)

- Use an alternate keyboard (iOS 12)

- Tell Siri to play a song in Spotify or other third party services

- Use third party communication, navigation, and music services with CarPlay (Spotify even adds a custom UI element for its favorite button)

- Play videos with Picture-in-Picture

- Cast to Chromecast and other non-Apple casting devices (app-dependent, but you can always use the Chrome browser, YouTube, and Spotify apps to cast that way)

- NFC is no longer locked down

Really, the only difference between Apple and Google is that their business interests are aligned in a slightly different way. They're both restrictive when it comes to features that threaten their business model.

I agree with you that we should have more/better alternatives, or at the very least more consumer protections and restrictions on Apple and Google's duopoly.

I know you said no Android roms, but GrapheneOS can be installed from a website over webUSB in just a couple steps. It's as simple as enabling OEM unlocking and clicking install - just make sure you have a supported non-carrier variant Pixel.

That's the closest you're going to get to "install with one click". There is no preinstalled Google spyware or bloat

The problem is not the operating system itself, the problem is the secrecy of the manufacturers and the complete lack of standardization in the ARM environment. It's trivial to make a (tiny) operating system for PCs as all the early initialization is done by the BIOS/UEFI and the interface that calls the OS from there is clearly defined. And in theory you don't even need to write hardware-specific drivers for basic system functionality - video, storage access, mouse and keyboard are all abstracted by the BIOS/UEFI. If you want, you can write a "hello world"-capable "OS" in a day or two - it's about 20 lines of ASM code [1] that you put onto an USB stick and that's it.

For ARM, everyone ships their own bootloader that has certain expectations on the hardware built-in (especially flash layout), there are no standards at all that serve as some sort of fallback... it's an utter wild west. And Google seems for whatever reason very reluctant to force the manufacturers as part of the Google Services license to adhere to at least some standards (=following the open source mandate for the kernel and other GPL-licensed parts, publishing device trees, allowing access for people to flash their own OS).

As a result, to even get started on ARM you need at the very least information from the platform vendor how memory is structured, where to place the image, how to flash it, how to bring up CPU cores... and that's only going to give you a serial port at best. You then need to develop at least basic functionality to initialize the graphics processor, and only then the user can actually see something.

[1]: http://mikeos.sourceforge.net/write-your-own-os.html

LineageOS without Google Services/gapps is pretty nice... I only miss Google Maps.

Copperhead os? Not cheap.

For sure, but have you tried an even partially de-googled phone? It's not as simple as not using gmail and google maps. Lots of apps don't like MicroG, and MicroG free Android results in a small percentage of apps working.

Google has done an amazing job of owning yet "not owning" Android.

What do you mean specifically? The "use this app as the 'default' default browser" behaviour?

My guess is that Chrome's app ID is simply hardcoded somewhere inside the OS.

There's no way to open links directly into an incognito tab, so I like to keep two browsers: one logged in in everything and another that I use to open random links from IM.

Well, it's a great way to try to force web developers (who must make it work on Android Chrome) to either buy extra devices or be unable to use the default of their choice. And if you can get the developers to default to Chrome, that's good for reinforcing "chrome first" development.

Edit: Apparently I misunderstood the imposition (see the response chain below). Seems benign but annoying for power users.

I do all the time. I use Chrome, Firefox, Firefox Nightly on a daily basis for different things.

Weaker and worse is arguable. There is so much more functionality available on Android than iOS, I can install whatever I'd like on my device, I can write any kind of app I choose to and install it on my device. I can organize my media files in any manner I wish to.....

But yes less secure, and much less private. Android is essentially spyware for google.

IMO the "new" interface is a serious downgrade. Especially on mobile: it keeps nagging you to switch to the mobile app and is rife with dark patterns, including pretending some subreddits are only accessible through the app.

Clunky, as opposed to the new design:

* "No, you can't see this community, download the app"

* "this post is nsfw, download the app"

* (popup at the bottom of the screen) "do you want to use the app?"

* when reading comments, suddenly the chain stops and completly unrelated posts are shown

* if you want to read a comment chain deeper than three, you have to open each subcomment individually. Naturally, pressing back won't take you to the right position after following a chain

* all of the above is slower than even youtube, making it the worst web experience right after IBM's presentation of the plex font

> Why do people like that clunky interface?

Why do people like the super slow new reddit? Is a slightly shinier site really worth several 100ms delay for actions taken?

FWIW, I’d switch to new in a heartbeat. Better Markdown, more customization, looks cleaner (and I’m always logged in, so the account thing is not an issue). But not with the crappy speed it currently has.

I think you're the first person I've ever seen who prefers the new interface. It's extremely unpopular, at least on HN.

> Why do people like that clunky interface?

For me, more posts fit on the screen in old reddit. In this case, it's 10 posts in old reddit vs 6 in new, (desktop monitor).

No infinite jank-loading and nudging more content I never requested into view as I scroll. Similarly I don't want to find a new book stuck to the back cover of the book I just finished reading.

In old reddit I can open comments in new tab, scroll to last comment, then close tab. I don't always do that, but I like the option.

In new reddit, the separator is a single line "More posts from the GooglePixel community"... Not even a horizontal line. I sometimes miss the end of one thread, and don't realise I'm reading comments in the next. Each to their own. I'd stop using old if new was better.

> clunky

As opposed to what? The smooth new interface? Reddit is a cesspit of poor design, but at least the old theme did it without getting in the way.

It’s a losing battle with this crowd. I finally just wrote a user script that deletes the “old” from the URL for me.

I love the old interface. The new one is impossible for me to use. I can't read a thing on it.

Because Android will make you pick a default browser, you switched to iOS where you weren't even allowed to change the default browser (depending on when it was you switched), and even now every browser is actually Safari so users think there is diversity but there isn't really.

Ok.

I mean, I acknowledge that sort of thinking is common, but it's makes no sense to me.

I use an iPhone too, but aren't all iOS browsers using the Safari engine in the background, even if the front end is branded as Firefox/Edge/whatever?