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Diversification is indeed the best strategy, but please do not become vegetarian on a whim. Consider the health implications it involves.

Another avenue is just being more conscious about the meat you eat. There's a difference between having meat-based products as a staple food (e.g. preprocessed meat, fast food / restaurant / take-out,...) and reducing which types of meat you eat, the frequency and where you buy meat products.

For instance, a local butcher shop might offer local products, and will be more expensive. But you can offset the expense by only having meat dishes on, say, Sunday. That's just one strategy. Another is to use the left-overs in a next meal.

Historically, meat was expensive, and not eaten daily. For intsance, in the UK, "sunday roast" was originally exactly that: a meal that was only eaten on Sunday after service. Sheppard's pie was then a dish made from the left-overs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_roast

There's more to it then that, but it's a good idea to be aware that historic eating habits do yield many good ideas on how to move away from modern day meat consumption patterns predicated by the abundance cheap meat.

And let’s not forget that cheap meat is possible only because of industrial-scale mistreatment of animals, the abuse of antibiotics, mass devastation of the natural world to grow feed for said animals, etc., etc.

We reap what we sow. We’re killing Earth’s biosphere, and soon enough our own species will face its doom.

But hey, let’s get another bucket of chicken and keep stuffing our faces with hamburgers.

Being flexible about types and cuts of meat can help with the cost also. At least at supermarkets in my area, a three or four-pound piece of pork shoulder might be buy-one-get-one-free, for about the same price as a pack of six chicken wings or a small strip steak.

One semi-major home repair completely overtakes any savings on food, of course.

What do you mean? While strict vegetarian might not be the best it seems there are still more health implications to account for when eating meat.

I am very much in the valley of despair on this manner, but for me individually (and food is indeed very individual), meat consumption leads to a much greater quality of life, with perceived health benefits.

I went fully carnivore and it lead to various health improvements. While I moved away from it due to my foodie tendencies, I currently do consume mainly animal products.

I plan on doing a vegan experiment as well, but I am just not getting convinced by the vegans I listen to, so I need to do more research. As it stands, I believe eating meat that grew naturally (e.g grass fed beef as compared factory farming) is more healthy and sustainable than veganism.

> I need to do more research

Where will you publish the study?

You were insinuating there are negative health consequences to vegetarianism without providing any scientific evidence.

I was saying that there could be negative effects, which is evidently true since I have experienced some.

People should check what's good for them instead of blindly following information they got by osmosis. Especially with regards to health.

Yeah you said so but we still don't know what those effects are and how your food supposedly caused them. Maybe there are different explanations for why you feel better now. I do agree that this can be very individual, but that is also the danger when people talk about their experience. You won't notice the long time consequences either, by definition.

That's only a problem if I advise people will go in a certain direction (which is what the original comment did). Instead I suggested people think about their decisions.

hundreds of millions of indians are vegetarians just fine, people who talk like this have usually read too many anti-vegetarian memes

Or are just aware of the individuality of food.

fear mongering about vegetarianism implies a distinct lack of food awareness

I forgot we all mustn't question the current narrative

Who are "we" and what is the "current narrative"? I'm afraid you'll have to elaborate, I'm a bit of a luddite.

If you'd like to discuss any problems with widespread vegetarianism in India, which again, includes hundreds of millions of people, then I'm happy to continue this discussion.

To be fair, vegetarianism isn't unhealthy (or necessarily healthy--you could still eat Oreos all day), but leaping into a rapid dietary change out of fear might be. Vegetarianism works in India because there's an established tradition of cooking varied foods that meet nutritional needs and are tasty. Stereotypical American vegetarianism is 1/3 rabbit-food, 1/3 gooey cheesy pasta, and 1/3 synthetic meat-substitutes.

My wife has health issues that mean many foods will cause her gastrointestinal pain or worse. Unfortunately many of the meat substitutes that vegans/vegetarians eat will hurt her.

Your wife is not the norm and it does not give us any general info about vegetarianism being supposedly unhealthy.

Logic check: grandparent's observation, if verified, disproves a universal claim that vegan/vegetarian is healthier.

This is general information.

Logic check... Get off your high horse mate. Nobody is claiming that the vegan/vegetarian diet is the best diet for absolutely everybody, that would be an absurd claim. Outliers can and will exist. Eg. You have people that get health issues from eating onions, it doesn't mean that onions aren't healthy lol.

Funny! I tried to structure my prior comment to you with the exact same "get off your high horse" content since you were aggressive in your prior comments to the grandparent commenter, but didn't want to broach site standards.

We appear to have come to the same conclusion, so I'll leave it at that. Best of luck out there.

Also, isn’t becoming a vegetarian somewhat the opposite of diversifying?

> Become vegetarian, if you aren't already.

This is very healthy. But make sure to take B12 if you're going vegetarian.

> Though deficiency for those starting out with adequate stores may take years to develop, the results of B12 deficiency can be devastating, with cases reported of paralysis, psychosis, blindness, and even death.

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/vitamin-b12/

Edit: To the downvoters, care to explain?

Supplements are usually not necessary for vegetarians. If you include milk, cheese and eggs in your diet you probably get enough B12. If you are vegan you need to take a bit more care.

32 year vegetarian. Never had to take a supplement.

7 year vegetarian. Recently found out I’m low on iron. Probably because I don’t eat fortified cereals. As a male, I’ve been told not to worry about my Iron intake- but that’s bad advice.

Best is not to generalise and instead get a blood test to check vitamin levels. Talk to your GP.

Agree. The people who successfully transition to a significant diet change like vegan/vegetarian probably already see their primary care physicians. Hence they’re more likely to know they’re deficient. A major diet change would be journaling and testing glucose closely to see what spikes and doesn’t. This is more of a 80/90 thing though and not for everyone.

Personally, I avoid fortified foods because I supplement with higher quality forms elsewhere. Neon yellow urine is not right.

that’s like fearing walking down the street because you might fall into an open manhole cover… can it happen? yep, but it’s extremely rare. do most people ever need to think about it? nope.

> In exercise: drop any gym memberships, use things like body weight to train. Run one day, do yoga the next.

This is a bit like the avocado toast nonsense though - a gym membership costs about $50 a month which is nothing compared to the near $2000 mortgage payments.

Why the arbitrary comparison with (likely) the costliest outlay? I think it is sound to suggest eliminating gym membership, particularly if under-used. Moreover, it's not optional to pay your mortgage if you have one, gym membership is.

I agree with your "avocado toast" assessment. Plus, for many people, the social aspect of a gym -- even if they talk to no one -- is motivating. Also, the equipment will normally be better and more diverse than you own at home.

For people who struggle with their finances it's not just the gym membership. It's the gym membership, media subscriptions, daily latte, oversized car(s), holidays abroad, eating out daily, mortgage payments on a McMansion, new phone every year, overflowing wardrobe and on and on. Most people live pay check to pay check.

What you're describing is a lack of impulse control, not anything related to a gym membership specifically.

Yes.

Also $7,200 per decade or 3.5-4 months of mortgage/rent payments. Stack it with other similar cuts, each adds 3-6 months of living expenses. It isn't about the 1 it is about the whole. That said, I can definitely see the QoL argument, the original question tends to accept that QoL trade offs are made for financial gain.

But how are you going to eliminate the $2000/mo mortgage? If you sell your house and go rent in the same area at the same home size, you're likely to end up with higher rent than you had mortgage. If your mortgage is outsized for the area or your house is bigger than you need, you're still not going to be saving $2000/mo, it'll be at most in the $100s.

I think this is a reasonable observation, but in certain high cost of living areas, and if you're willing to leave to save money in case of trouble, the math is slightly different.

E.g. in SF, you'll pay $3500+ for housing, and salaries are largely adjusted for that level of expense. But your savings are "future money", and you can choose where to spend that. Saving $300 a month, $4k a year, can add up to sums that are significant in a lower cost of living area.

> Become vegetarian, if you aren't already.

A laudable goal in terms of sustainability and health, but in most developed countries not a cost saving measure. Meat is way too cheap, and often forms part of the bargains supermarkets use to attract customers.

In the long term and the most pessimistic scenarios doing without meat may be cheaper though.

Fresh vegetables are cheap. Look at how immigrants do it.

You don't need to be an immigrant. Vegetables are cheap in UK supermarkets.

1kg carrots - 39p https://groceries.morrisons.com/products/morrisons-carrots-2...

2.5kg potatoes - £1 https://groceries.morrisons.com/products/morrisons-white-pot...

And so on. Vegetables are cheap. It's frustrating seeing people complain about food but not learn to cook. Making casserole is cheap.

Raw, yes. But I use alot more seasoning with vegetables. I spend more time chopping and simmering. And the end result just isn't as enjoyable as a steak.

With respect, this implies that you are not very good at cooking.

You can make delicious, quick and easy food both with meat and with vegetables. If you try and cook a steak like vegetables, you will have poor results. If you try and cook vegetables like a steak, you will have poor results. If you treat each ingredient - meat, vegetable, or otherwise - in its own right and cook/season appropriately, then you can and will make excellent food.

Nope I've had vegetables at top class restaurants so my cooking abilities are irrelevant to my claim that (on average) meat takes less effort to cook and still tastes better. I enjoy all the food I cook, I just enjoy meat more and doubt I'm the minority, but thanks for condescending.

I have to agree. I’ve eaten and cooked (tasty) Indian food for most of my life. I’m biased, but Indian cookery has some of the most diverse and flavorful vegetarian dishes of any cuisine, and as a kid, I ate mostly vegetarian. After saying all that, I’m confident I _could_ be a vegetarian eating that diet (and have), but the meat dishes are still far tastier and something I’d prefer 9 times out of 10.

If you consider the cost of healthcare in developed countries, it may be that meat is much more expensive.

With exception of USA, individuals cost of healthcare is not that high.

I pay several times more for my phone+internet per year than for my healthcare (and I have 2 separate chronic conditions)

> individuals cost of healthcare is not that high

What you don't pay for out of pocket, you do pay either in quality of care or through your taxes, one way or the other.

It's definitely possible to win this game compared to the US, because the situation in the US is so bad. We pay double and our health care isn't twice as good, not even close. You have to hustle hard in order to argue that it's even a smidgen better, let alone twice as good, because mostly it's just more expensive.

You're somehow implying that eating meat is bad for human health, which considering how general a statement it is, is bound to be completely false.

Human beings have thrived eating meat for hundreds of thousands of years. And it's a lot harder to completely address all the nutritional requirements on a purely vegetarian diet, but not impossible.

We've only lived long enough to suffer from the effects of meat in the past century or two.

Here are videos exploring studies about meat, which convinced me.

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/meat/

We've hunted large portion of large fauna to extinction. Agricultural society is a way to factory-farm peasants to use in warfare.

How is that actionable? Move to a hunter-gatherer state?

How is meat produced, if not agriculture?

In any case, agriculture barely employs anyone nowadays, with mechanization and animal factory-farms.

If anything, it's agriculture that's "unnatural". It only came about 10 thousand years ago, and most plants we eat have been vastly altered to fit our tastes.

> A laudable goal in terms of sustainability and health, but in most developed countries not a cost saving measure. Meat is way too cheap, and often forms part of the bargains supermarkets use to attract customers.

Where I live, this is no longer true; on the one side there was a big outrage at the super cheap meat (€3 / kilo at the lowest), pushing shops to sell meat at a higher price (and presumably better animal conditions, but I'm not convinced this is independently verified), on the other there's these certifications farmers can get for their animals' living conditions, and people are willing to pay extra for this.

Anyway, in our household, freezer vegetables are a staple. We tried fresh vegetables for a while, but there's a lot of stems (in e.g. broccoli) and it's not as fresh or affordable as the frozen stuff.

That said, I think that instead of raising the price of meat, they should lower the price, availability and diversity of vegetables.

I would also encourage people to avoid these "vegetarian meat alternatives"; they're kinda scammy in that the ingredients are cheap but they sell it at meat prices. It's a lazy vegetarian's option. If you want to avoid meat for whichever reason, learn to make meals without something that kinda looks like meat.

"spend all the time you possibly can with your family. Make them your focus, not your income and "future". Be in the now as much as you possibly can"

Retrospect is 20/20... (I'm making the assumption you have had young kids and are speaking from experience). I have spent loads of time with my kids in the last few years (more than many of my peers have) and at times think it has been to mine and (by association) their detriment. "all the time you possibly can" is just too emphatic-an aspiration to be realistic in the messy context of real life.

Regrets on some scale are inevitable so learning to accept them is important.

Balance is all.

I am confused on the suggestion to become vegetarian.

In economic hard times, one mist be picky and learn how to eat anything available.

I don't think diversifying one's income is necessarily good advice. I'd rather have one better paying job that allowed me to invest & save than multiple streams of income that split my focus too much. If you have a day job that covers basic expenses, getting a better job might be a better answer than getting a 2nd job.

There are second jobs that can be done alongside full time jobs...

I'm in a situation getting similar to this Ask HN... I have a family that depends on my income (plus, it's very stable/secure, enjoyable, but unfortunately under market pay). If I find a better job, and things don't work out, we'd have virtually no household income... However, I was able to find a second job (which required honing one additional skill) to pull in $3000/year working a few nights a year... Which helps pay for unexpected expenses.

It’s definitely harder to be comfortable taking risks when one have dependents. There’s a lot of ways to get ahead. Find a way that works for you.

> Become vegetarian, if you aren't already.

Try keto diet, or maybe even carnivore. Save yourself first, and then look up into saving the planet.

The question wasn't about saving the planet, it was about spending less on food.

> The question wasn't about saving the planet, it was about spending less on food.

My bad. Then my answer is don't save by eating bad food. It will limit you more compared to the extra cash you'll save (unless you're poor and you have no choice).

So on a plant-based diet you can't save yourself?

Plant-based meals require far fewer resources and is cheaper, which means maintaining societal stability when resources are becoming low - as there is more to go around.

A lot of farm land is being used to grow foods for livestock. We could use that land to grow food for ourselves.

> So on a plant-based diet you can't save yourself?

I'd generally go for keto since that is more studied compared to strict carnivore.

> Plant-based meals require far fewer resources and is cheaper, which means maintaining societal stability when resources are becoming low - as there is more to go around.

But your health will (probably/maybe) be worse. There are ways to make cheap keto (ex: eating 10 eggs/day in my local area).

> A lot of farm land is being used to grow foods for livestock. We could use that land to grow food for ourselves.

Then eat grass-fed meat. I do so myself.

>Then eat grass-fed meat. I do so myself.

I'm not sure there is enough grassland in the world for everyone to eat grass-fed meat.

I believe (not really studied myself, but as with most things in life, I only do enough research on how to choose who to believe, not really KNOW MYSELF, reality is so complex that I don't have enough time to really know, and even if I do have time, I'm often not genetically predisposed to be good at it, so I still dont decide for myself, only who to believe)

that you should do keto or carnivore. Feel free to read or believe the vegan doctors or the keto/carnivore ones. But I've made my choice and I ~mostly have been right in my life, including this. Feel free to become a psychiatrist/psychologist/sports-science and do your studies and bring a better way.

Until then, eat keto/carnivore with the best red meat you can afford. And then worry about the world. And humans are smart enough to fix this particular issue.