Ask HN: Most Reliable Modern Refrigerator? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Most Reliable Modern Refrigerator?

After our Samsung refrigerator of <7 years failed yesterday I recalled HN posters mentioning how criminally unreliable are modern refrigerators.

I've benefitted from many a great advices I saw on HN about appliances, so I am hoping the collective HN mind could have a suggestion about this indispensable household item.

I know one solution would be to get a vintage fridge, but I would really appreciate the energey-saving and the ice-making features of the modern ones.

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So, my heuristic for appliances:

Find a vendor that targets customers who lose money if the appliance fails, and is unable to be quickly repaired.

So far, this has been a good way to locate Vulcan Ranges, SpeedQueen washers/dryers, and True refrigerators.

Now...there are drawbacks to this approach. Many of these brands don't target the price-point, convenience features, or aesthetic that consumer brands do. But, if the price is right, you may find something reliable you can live with.

https://true-residential.com/

This is smart. I wonder if you could get more of a consumer aesthetic and feature set if you looked at the appliances in luxury apartments. The apartments would have to replace the appliances if they fail, so the apartment company has presumably done research and has experience. The end user is still just a consumer though.

Apartments don't generally lose much money when appliances fail. They pay "unskilled laborers" low wages to replace the unit within a reasonable time frame. During that time, the tenant continues to pay rent as normal.

There aren't any apartments that compete based on "Our super reliable appliances won't fail!" so any tenants unhappy about this have no marginal benefit to moving somewhere else.

Therefore, apartments usually provide the cheapest appliances which fit the aesthetic of the rest of the build. Or, these days, whichever appliance is available for purchase because there's been a massive shortage of durable goods.

Presumably the apartment complex has to replace or repair their appliances. If the appliances failed a lot that would incur high maintenance costs. I don't understand how the complex employing unskilled laborers would reduce the cost of replacing or repairing failed appliances.

It's easy, they have a lot of units with the same appliances and in the basement they have a lot of spares. When one is replaced the broken one is used for parts to repair where possible.

they do but afaik most complexes get deep discounts from purchasing cheaper, high-volume units in bulk from hotpoint or whirlpool (for example) that they wouldn't get from buying more "reliable" models

I really doubt there's much of difference between brands and models. Old tech built by a few OEMs with some plastic molding thrown on and white labeled every which way. Cheaper to just replace the rare failure than to find an entirely different higher quality refrigerator pipeline if the MTBF of those things are measured in years regardless of brand.

>Many of these brands don't target the price-point [...]

>https://true-residential.com/

You don't say. I checked one of their basic refrigerators ("REFRIGERATOR WITH BOTTOM FREEZER") and the quote came out to $18,499. At that price, I have to wonder, is the increased reliability worth it? For a refrigerator that lasts twice as long, I'd only be willing to pay 50% more compared to a regular refrigerator.

> is the increased reliability worth it?

If, for some reason, you lose $10,000/day when a refrigerator fails, yes. (maybe, judging from the marketing materials, because you can't AirBnB your château without a working freezer). In a residential situation, I guess that would be some Imperial caviar or life-saving medicine... worth it to someone out there I suppose

Neighbor used a propane run refrigerator for some 30+ years. When it failed, tried to replace it with similar model. Unfornateluy, the company had gone out of business some 15+ years prior. No spare parts were available. BTW company went out of business as the result of limited repeat customers.

My fridge advice is KISS - nothing in the door - no water dispenser (this is called a faucet), no ice dispenser (this is called a scoop). I like my current fridge as it also allows you to bypass the built in water filter by simply inserting a plug.

I wouldn't buy a Samsung anything given my experiences. That said... the LG washer and dryer I bought 12 years ago have been awesome and the LG fridge I bought a while back has been very good too. Enough that my partner pushed to buy a new LG dishwasher from Costco rather than springing for the Bosch that I wanted. FWIW: My mom has had an LG fridge for a few years now too and raves about it.

Just because the fridge is having a problem doesn’t necessarily mean you have to replace it - there are lots of resources for identifying problems and buying parts online. I had a relatively new fridge stop working, and it just needed a $35 part which was pretty easy to order and install.

Mine makes a loud noise, I tracked it down to a fan, and I think the bearing is bad. It should be easy to replace a fan I think (although a little hassle since I have to remove the ice maker to get to it).

And before I even got around to purchasing a new fan, the water dospenser stopped working, and I haven't bothered looking at it yet.

Ideally I would just like to replace the whole thing with a quieter refrigerator, but I can't seem to find any reviews that actually address quietness.

My solution to that was to avoid fridges which have fans (I love maximum quietness). That means you won't get the "No Frost" feature - for me the tradeoff was worth it. After that, I sorted the friges in an online comparator by the declared noise level (in dB), and chose the most quiet one. I'm pretty happy with it.

Unfortunately, it makes annoying gas noises from time to time - apparently, that's a feature of all modern fridges (or so I was told by the repairman) - the noise is made by gas they use instead of freon. I learned to live with those noises and no longer notice them.

How did you search/find/sort that?

Through Polish price comparator ceneo.pl. Unfortunately, they don't have an English language version.

In any case, here's the link to the fridges:

https://www.ceneo.pl/Lodowki;szukaj-lod%c3%b3wka+lod%c3%b3wk...

In the search filters on the left, "Poziom hałasu" is the noise level in decibels.

which resource for example? The failed fridge is Samsung. I found the service manual, but it's a bit too involved and doesn't really help with identifying the problem it seems, rather with taking the fridge apart etc. Thank you!

If you're not comfortable poking around yourself, just call someone?

There aren't many major parts that wear out in a refrigerator, a replacement may not be cheap but you don't have to junk the whole thing.

When I was shopping for a refrigerator, I went to a local appliance center and talked to a person there. I learned a few things:

- In door water dispensers and ice makers are unreliable and will likely break.

- Availability of repair technicians and spare parts varies by brand and is region dependent.

- Different brands are good at different appliances. For instance, Bosch is well known for their dishwashers. Unfortunately I didn't find one in my budget that clearly stood out from the rest.

Never hurts to talk to someone at a local appliance center if you have one nearby.

This has been my strategy, too - and the takeaway was that you were best off going with Miele. If that was a tad too pricey, Asko offered pretty much the same quality at a slightly lower price point.

I think Miele just rebrands Liebherr fridges, though.

I went with Asko and have been a happy camper thus far (Fridge, freezer, washer, dryer, dishwasher.) All have been doing what I expect them to with no fuss for 15 years now.

Replaced the pump on the dishwasher once, cost approx $40 for the pump and took me fifteen minutes to replace.

I have Bosch washer and dryer. I’m in rural no-where about an hour from Reno, NV. Getting a repair person is a challenge and they don’t carry the parts. So far, I’ve been able to handle little things. I’ll probably replace them when they go out. I’ve had them about 6 years now.

Personally I relied a lot on the Yale appliance blog to help me learn what appliances to get. Long story short though, there's a non-negligible chance your appliance will fail, so plan for it. Make sure you know who to call, and that they're service reviews are good.

https://blog.yaleappliance.com/most-reliable-counter-depth-f...

SubZero is known for being the best in the industry. It's amazing how much longer food lasts. They are expensive though, so if it is in your budget, I would absolutely recommend.

Agreed! And to color your recommendation - SubZero is famous for using dual compressors (vs. the traditional single), which better circulates & chills air.

You can now buy from most firms a separate fridge and freeze which practically means dual compressors, and even better you can replace just one side in case of a catastrophic failure.

SubZero is quite expensive, and also quite nice; mine has a service display behind the vent to see current status and trouble codes). They also keep the same models for a long time. This should help with parts availability.

I did have a problem with the ice maker freezing up, but reading the service manual figured out that the drain heater just needed to be tweaked a bit (it also doesn't hurt to turn off the ice maker when nobody is going to use ice for a while)

Considering the possibility of my refrigerator doing finishing moves is an extra bonus.

I'm staying in a house right now that features a SubZero refrigerator. It's at least ten years old, huge, and full.

It's not very efficient, when it comes to power consumption.

But the freezer is huge, and works for this family.

(UK perspective.)

I'm a big fan of Miele. Their appliances are very solid, enduring and priced accordingly.

https://www.miele.co.uk

Or Liebherr, Miele does not manufacture refrigerators, Liebherr makes them for Miele…

>Miele does not manufacture refrigerators, Liebherr makes them for Miele

Today I learned. I was looking at [1] so assumed Miele made their own. Thanks for the clarification.

[1] https://www.miele.co.uk/e/refrigeration-1022129-c

It are Miele specific models though, some are very similar to high-end Liebherr models, but they are not exactly the same. Especially the interiors differed the last time I checked.

Since your last fridge was a Samsung, I might introduce a distinctly Korean heuristics for appliances: 백색가전은 LG. This translates to "LG for white appliances".

Now I don't know if LG is actually better nowadays, but it is one of those interesting marketing tactics that must have paid dividends for LG because it is still the first thing I think of when I think about buying white appliances.

Also, I don't actually recommend this heuristics. Just thought it could be an interesting data point :)

I've just started looking at appliances in general as we are planning some home renovations. Miele seems to be one of the few that are making products intended to last and be serviceable in the residential space. Premium pricing though.

I've had great experiences with Viking. Bosch is sometimes mentioned, but in my experience, it may be more maintenance friendly, but it breaks just as often (dishwasher and oven both needed major part replacements withing 7 years ownership).

I'm definitely interested in seeing what others have to say. I would like lasting quality, but not at the expense of efficiency and a small slice of modern features (ice dispenser being the main one), so vintage doesn't really meet my needs. I just know that I won't buy another appliance made by a large electronics brand like Samsung, LG, etc. Poor reliability + poor service ability paired with 'smart' features I have zero interest in.

yeah, they aren't made like in the 60s anymore; I wouldn't say 6-7 years isn't criminally unreliable, but it is incredibly disappointing and would be a big negative mark for considering the same manufacturer again.

On the plus side, in comparison to 60s fridges they're quite a bit more energy efficient.

I would avoid ultra bottom end fridges that do not have active fan cooling. I would go for lower end to middle of the road type budgets.

Try a different manufacturer. Whirlpool can be price competitive. To me, quality wise they seem not bad, but often can have mediocre OEM components that fail within the time range you experienced on your Samsung fridge. If it's a component that's easily replaceable (in this case, not compressor related) that's something I can tolerate.

To the OP, is it something that broke that would not be economically practical to get repaired by a professional?

> they aren't made like in the 60s anymore

This is survivorship bias. Repairs were so common on appliances from this era that Maytag could run a profitable repair business that is now engraved in recent history, 30 years after it no longer exists.

That's not true, even if you claim that they weren't built any better "back then" (which is a point I would still argue with).

The reason is that there is literally not a single 2000+ fridge that will be going when it's 50-60 years old. Say that 1960's-1970's fridge broke and needed repair sometime in the last 50-60 years? Or the next? I can still today get plenty of repair parts! You can't get parts for most "modern" fridges over 10 years old today. No way in 50 years. You're simply not going to fix your internet-connected DRM'd in-door water dispenser filter controller board when it's discontinued.

My bold prediction is that in 50 years, you'll still see pre-2000 fridges in about the same % as you do today, with the rest being 0-20 years old (which would be 2050-2070 models).

You'll spend way more in electricity than you'll save by keeping and repairing the same ancient fridge over and over... Their efficiency has vastly improved.

first - I didn't say that you would or wouldn't. I said it isn't "surviorship bias", the reliability and repair-ability difference is absolutely real.

And I don't use a 1960 fridge, mines about 3 years old - why? because the old one broke and I had to get a new one quick (I could not afford the time to repair - plus the old one was post-2000 junk anyhow), I like auto-defrost, and the other monkeys that live in the house need ice+water in the door, or they'll throw poop at me.

At a 4% interest rate, and .12$/KWh, a modern fridge @450KWh/yr for 10 years costs NPV -$933 for electricity and say -$1000 to buy it. And old fridge @1800KWh/yr for 10 (more) years costs -$1750. So you'd save about $200 with the ancient fridge, not counting having to manually defrost it.

And before you say it - there is no "repairing over and over". You need to put about that $200 into like it every 20-30 years, every other generation you hand it down to.

Still if electricity doubled in cost, or you just like auto-defrost, or live with other monkeys, it's probably not worth it. But the difference isn't "vast". It's pretty negligible because on the whole, fridges don't use a lot lot of power.

So - why can't we have a basic $1000 modern efficient fridge that is repairable? because - you'd keep it for 30-50 years and that'd be the end of that business. But what if that company was then encouraged to make a better fridge next year. It's an interesting unintended side-effect of right-to-repair and other repair-ability measures. Instead of buying a new fridge because I have to, I should buy a new one because it's 2x as efficient and it's a better value proposition when faced with rising power costs. It'd spawn the right kind of obsolescence not fake bad design obsolescence.

> first - I didn't say that you would or wouldn't. I said it isn't "surviorship bias", the reliability and repair-ability difference is absolutely real.

Sorry, wasn't challenging that part, just bringing up an adjacent point. I apologize, I should've been clearer. I definitely believe the difference in reliability and repairability.

> At a 4% interest rate, and .12$/KWh, a modern fridge @450KWh/yr for 10 years costs NPV -$933 for electricity and say -$1000 to buy it. And old fridge @1800KWh/yr for 10 (more) years costs -$1750. So you'd save about $200 with the ancient fridge, not counting having to manually defrost it.

Thank you for doing the math here and making a convincing case for it. That's actually quite a bit better than I thought. However, electricity is already up to .25$/kWh in some states, and probably only going to increase in the years to come as fossil energy becomes scarcer. That changes the math a bit, but not drastically so I suppose. Refrigerators don't use all that much power to begin with anyway, considering the utility you get out of it.

> And before you say it - there is no "repairing over and over". You need to put about that $200 into like it every 20-30 years, every other generation you hand it down to.

Conversely, modern fridges in my experience aren't THAT unreliable either. If something breaks it's usually the ice maker or like a door seal, and many people will just let that stay broken. It's rare to see the actual fridge part break completely... in my very limited experience.

> Still if electricity doubled in cost, or you just like auto-defrost, or live with other monkeys, it's probably not worth it. But the difference isn't "vast". It's pretty negligible because on the whole, fridges don't use a lot lot of power.

Hah, sorry, I see now you've said the same thing.

> Instead of buying a new fridge because I have to, I should buy a new one because it's 2x as efficient and it's a better value proposition when faced with rising power costs. It'd spawn the right kind of obsolescence not fake bad design obsolescence.

This would be nice. FWIW, I know of a company that hand-builds ultra-efficient fridges out of a small town in America: http://www.sunfrost.com/

They're not very big... hard to compare with the mass-manufactured Chinese stuff... but just glad there's SOMEONE out there still making old-world hardware.

Recently on HN:

https://www.failscout.co/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30335314

I'm interested in a fridge that allows you to easily clean the coils.

I have a Samsung fridge that came with the house. The ice has built up twice in 6 months and needed to be left unplugged and open for it to thaw to prevent a loud noise.

Now it is leaky at one of the legs.

It is much larger than a traditional fridge and the coils are not visible. I believe they are behind a panel at the back (bottom) of the fridge.

Ideally the coils would be easily accessible so they can be cleaned periodically.

This could be a ventilation or thermal issue, I had a lot of issues with this in an AC unit a few years back and it turned out to be a blocked duct.

I am thinking about a new refrigerator. I spent the money to buy a Consumer Reports subscription, but their "reviews" did nothing to help me.

Next time just stop by the library and read/photograph the few relevant pages in the issue for that appliance.

>but their "reviews" did nothing to help me.

Last time I checked they had a whole table with various models and their ratings. What more do you need?

I’d suggest shopping the nearest scratch and dent for the models that fit your needs and spend a few minutes searching for reviews and issues on those specific models, then go with the best of the bunch.

From what I can tell these days even reputable brands have bad models and spotty quality. So I’d just try to spend as little as possible and screen for any stand out problems before buying.

Samsung fridges are terrible. We've had to repair ours twice in a few months and eventually threw it out. It was still under warranty, but fridges are something you generally don't want failing even if you get the money back.

Hitachi and LG have worked fine for us, but it's been less than 10 years.

I (briefly) had a Samsung fridge. Made weird noises. Impossible to clean without breaking stuff. Apparently designed by a team that had never seen a fridge before. Or perhaps by misanthropes who also hated all fridgekind.

Switched to a modest (no gimmick) Haier. Love it. Simple, quiet, easy to clean.

I have a bunch of Samsung stuff and have found that they are often overly ambitious with features that seem poorly tested, especially for reliability but that can be fixed by watching youtube. Granted your time may be better spent elsewhere.

I've heard advice given like this: Don't buy an appliance from a brand that makes smartphones.

But you should probably buy a refrigerator from a company that makes air conditioning systems?

Wait until you find Samsung and Bosch components in your car.

Not sure if you are joking, but almost every modern car has Bosch (sensors, battery, ABS, wipers etc) and/or Samsung (displays, DRAM etc) components.

Precisely the sarcasm I was suggesting.

Bosch and Samsung are conglomerates and make much more than even the list you've generated. Especially hvac and mechanical. Including non electronic.

I don't know. If Apple made a refrigerator, a lot of people would probably consider buying it.

That being said, Samsung, as a Chaebol/conglomerate, can suck and some things and be great at others, simply because its various divisions are very loosely related to each other. In this case, I've heard bad things about Samsung appliances and better things about their display and DRAM production.

Samsung was an appliance company long before it was a phone company.

if you don't need a smart fridge (which i wouldn't recommend anyway), i love GE's fridges. we have one. works great. i've also heard great stuff about whirlpool fridges.

note that the appliance industry is incestuous as fuck. it's basically a cabal of six selling stuff at all price points. see here: http://www.appliance411.com/purchase/make.shtml

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