The magic of the Japanese convenience store sandwich | Hacker News Reader

The magic of the Japanese convenience store sandwich

japlanease.com

182 pointsgraderjs276 comments

These articles always make me conflicted. On one hand the Japanese convenience store is quite good but there’s so much fetishizing about them. In the end it’s just a sandwich, and if you eat enough of them you’ll realize there’s no “magic”.

That said the conbini is often the subject of many Japanese food TV shows and I enjoy seeing in-depth programs of how something is made and the creativity in their production. I learned that 7-11’s fried rice is made using real woks with an elaborate setup of robotic arms to toss the rice with the wok and spatula. The length they went though to get the flavor just right is very impressive.

On the sandwiches, one of my gripes is that they are often filled in a way that makes them look really plump and full of ingredients when cut in half. But everything is in the center so by by the time you make it to the edge it’s just bread. To me the sandwich is visually appealing but lacks balance and consistency from first bite to the last.

The filling thing is something you fall for only once though. After that you know exactly what you are going to get.

I still like convenience store sandwiches after 9 years eating them, even if I don’t eat them every lunch any more.

You’re totally right. I know exactly what I’m going to get and that’s the problem. It’s mildly annoying to see that nice looking sandwich and know that the first couple bites will be good but then rest are frauds.

That said, it’s mildly annoying to order fast food in the US and it comes out looking nothing like the picture on the menu. I’ve rarely been let down by JP fast food however. The food almost always looks like the picture.

You win some, you lose some.

> I learned that 7-11’s fried rice is made using real woks with an elaborate setup of robotic arms to toss the rice with the wok and spatula.

I would not mind seeing how that setup is implemented!

The vast majority of the odd robotic cooking contraptions I've seen on YouTube have almost always been bespoke once-offs (eg, someone's homemade project). Something that actually scales and is cost-effective would very likely be constructed very differently, and likely genuinely interesting and insightful to observe.

This is the best I could find. Sadly there’s no video clip.

https://dogatch.jp/news/tbs/tbstopics_69799/detail/

Found a frozen food factory tour reel

https://youtube.com/watch?v=8N8BCD3q_M0

Look for material from china - I've seen videos where something like 90% of ingredient-to-table pipeline was robotic, including the waiter

Robotic waiter is easy and already implemented, just look at conveyor belt sushi or iPad ordering.

I meant robotic pipeline that starts at electronic ordering, mostly robotic cooking, and delivery by free-driving delivery robot on the restaurant floor.

OK, makes some sense. Though getting a free-driving delivery robot instead of a conveyor belt sounds a bit like using humanoid robot to wash dishes instead of a dishwasher.

Free-driving delivery robot makes sense when the restaurant has "classic" seating, including with no adjacent walls, and portion sizes that would make conveyor belt quite wide

Maybe. Though this reminds me of people trying to design a horseless carriage:

It's totally doable with modern technology, but in all honesty, modern cars work better.

(Off-topic: now that I think about it, it would be fun to see a 'self-driving carriage'. Ie you keep the horses, but replace the coachman with technology.)

FWIW, conveyor (or just any other static logistical mover) vs independently driving robots (or even crewed systems) is a valid spectrum that you apply in both internal factory logistics (from workers driving, through automatic robots, to conveyors and internal trains) and nation-wide systems (lorry vs. train, pretty much)

Yes, it's a valid spectrum. Definitely!

About your other example: I would expect self-driving lorries in a few decades to look very different from current human-driven lorries.

it looks something like this

https://youtu.be/xn4hBelQLlI

I've seen videos where it's much larger scale restaurant. the chefs are basically just responsible for filling those bowls and they man multiple stations. there are also versions with a wok.

You can tell from the simplified Chinese that this is owned by Chinese i.s.o. Japanese, which is just another great example of the above mentioned idea of "unique" Japanese.

It's Singapore, as mentioned in the description (and the prices are quoted in SGD).

The signage may be Chinese but the locale is Singapore. That said, 80% of the "uniquely Japanese" things mentioned in the sister article are found in any East Asian city with a significant Japanese presence.

Eg: vending machines for pet cacti

That machine is cool but 7-11’s process was nothing like that. That machine is for individual servings at a restaurant. The one 7-11 used was more industrialized and made to produce pre-packaged food to be served frozen then heated up at home.

sorry i wasn't implying this is what the 7-11 looks like. just sharing an example i can find of industrial level cooking automation

It's funny to realize that onigiri are probably some of the worst offenders when it comes to centralized fillings. But I personally would never think to complain about those kombini onigiri.

So maybe if the bread is OK, it's still worth it to some people to get some bites that are more like just bread.

(Yes I do consider seaweed the crust of an onigiri :-))

Btw, magic to me was finding an Aquarius vending machine with the bonus size cans while walking home on a sweltering summer day.

Isn't onigiri meant to be most of rice? Can't say the same for sandwiches.

Might depend on who you ask.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toast_sandwich

I roll my eyes about most of these articles (lived in Japan for ten years)but one thing I would really praise is the packaging of onigiri. Whoever invented that is a genius.

The glorification and even fetishisation of plain, everyday things in Japan simply because they're thought of as being uniquely "Japanese" is a weird aspect of the culture, which thanks to the Internet has found many adopters from all over the world.

It's a function of an ultranationalist view of one's own culture as being "uniquely unique", i.e. more unique than any other culture is unique. The Japanese even did come up with a quack "science" named "Nihonjinron" which is still a basis of the domestic school curricula. This and the military, rote-learning nature of their education system leads to obviously ridiculous overestimations like the alleged "magic" of a convenience store sandwich never being questioned or ridiculed, so they stick. Any Japanese person in Japan is confronted with a million little "Nihonjinron" falsehoods like this one every day, thereby creating a false sense of superiority and regrettably, xenophobia and chauvinist nationalism: "All other cultures are inferior to ours!", "Are your convenience store sandwiches even magical, gaijin bro??"

I dont think its so simple. Japonism was a phenomenon rampaging through Europe in the arts and high society well before transistors existed. You dont get quite the same thing for other "exotic" cultures. There must be more to it.

I suspect part of it is that China was so cut off from the rest of the world for so long over the last century. When I was growing up through the 70s and 80s, and even the 90s the only asian culture you got exposed to was mainly Japanese culture and Hong Kong movies. Mainland China was a cultural black box. Even the Chinese culture we did have access to, like "The Water Margin" and "Monkey" TV shows were Japanese productions.

I also grew up in that era and the other part worth mentioning is that Japan seemed to be taking over the world economically. Japanese cars rapidly replaced American cars on the landscape, Japanese electronics did the same. Japanese money was said to buying up the entire country.

It was pretty natural to fetishize a culture that seemed so staggeringly successful and ascendant.

I think Japan cultural was/is seen as both ‘untainted’* due to their historical isolationism and the ability to mostly resist foreign encroachment and sufficiently sophisticated enough not be considered inferior which makes it pretty unique from the western perspective.

*of course modern Japanese society is probably much closer to Victorian Britain than to what Japan was in the 1850s

I think it's more a question of degree, Europeans were also obsessed with ancient Egypt[1] at the same time. But that faded away, where Japanese culture has retained its appeal. Of course, ironically anime are full of medieval European-esque knights and wizards and elves, so the draw of 'exotica' is widespread.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptomania

That said Japanese convenience stores really are awesome and I wish the rest of the world had them.

You must not have seen much of the world, then.

As the saying goes: "If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all".

Can you instead share examples of interesting convenience stores from other countries or cultures? I'm sure there are many people here who have not had the opportunity to travel and would like to live vicariously :)

You need to think outside the box. You can have actually great to-go food without ever entering a convenience stores, even in Japan or the US. This notion that "I want Japanese trash food to be respected" is as hilarious as it is creepy to me.

his sentence makes perfect sense if some of the parts of the world he has been to don't have them.

in that case, it's you who has not seen enough parts of the world to understand his pov, to wishe the rest of the world had them

I've seen of the world what I need to see, that includes Japan and the US. Wasn't impressed.

I live in Japan; other parts of Asia have the same usual Japanese combini brands (I’ve lived in Shanghai and spent time all around China, Taiwan, Thailand, the Philippines, Cambodia, HK, Singapore, Korea), they are nice but admittedly I have no idea if they also satisfy the vast breadth of services that you can do at the Japanese ones (shipping and receiving packages, getting documents from your local government, paying all your taxes, buying tickets to events and travel, faxing documents internationally, and more - I have used all of these many many times and am glad they’ve had them), not to mention the glut of variety of snacks, sweets, full meals, very well executed frozen foods, and warm prepared foods, all of which are delicious, often competitive with eating out. They’re always sparkling clean and usually can do everything without any hassle or even talking to another person, within seconds. Amazing operations if you ask me.

I have been all around the North American continent; there are no places as far as I know that have anything remotely as nice as a Japanese convenience store anywhere there. American drug stores absolutely suck in comparison and all the food they sell are pretty much disgusting in comparison. Everywhere I’ve been to in the Middle East (Lebanon, Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Turkey) also lacks analogous businesses as far as I recall.

I don’t know the current state of convenience stores in Europe since I haven’t dropped by anywhere in the last several years, but in my travels of Germany, Italy, and Iceland, I don’t recall ever seeing anything analogous. Maybe I just didn’t know to look for.

I have also been to parts of India, and once again, maybe I didn’t know what to look for but didn’t see anything analogous there either (though the explosion in delivery businesses as of late looks interesting, but a different category altogether).

So yeah; I’m interested in knowing what experiences you’ve had that make you confident I’m living under a rock.

Yes, Europe has almost no convenience stores, I think there are some 7/11 in Scandinavia.

But here's the thing: We don't have convenience stores because we value or food and local cuisines. US and Japan uncultured compared to us, to a similar extent, so as you're American I am not surprised you like Japanese convenience stores.

No classy Japanese, of which there are not many, would think of them as suppliers of actually good food, though.

And of course there's trashy gas station food in Europe, but nobody from the middle and upper classes would ever touch it, we would rather starve. That's mostly for Bulgarian truck drivers, Russian farm helpers, etc.

Lol what Japan is uncultured, doesn’t value food and local culture? Must be why the hottest food trends globally are mostly second rate knockoffs of Japanese food, and the world over treats pretty much any ordinary Japanese food and cultural goods as among if not the finest you can find anywhere (wagyu beef, high end seafood, so on). Let alone the fact that “classy Japanese” go to convenience stores all the time since they really are great, and is also known for preserving its culture better than practically any developed culture. Have you even visited before?

Must be a troll, or at least have a prohibitively closed mind.

I find this to be a really odd and cynical take on Japanese culture. It’s true that the Japanese take pride in certain aspects of their culture - and rightfully so - but isn’t this true of every culture?

I am from the United States, where “American Exceptionalism” is a phrase that is used non-ironically. The American flag is plastered everywhere, and pickup truck commercials routinely go on and on at length about how tough Americans are. I find the Japanese to be quite modest by comparison.

I also think that the “fetishization” of every day items in Japan is not being driven by the Japanese, but by foreigners who are genuinely impressed by things they have seen there. I could go on at length about different things they do well in Japan that I would like to bring home. Today it is convenience store sandwiches.

Can I ask what country you are from where people don’t have any unique cultural offerings that they are proud of?

You're making quite a leap there -- asking OP what country they're from that doesn't have "any" unique offerings and conflating that with the idea that the level of self-pride is up there with America or Japan.

Pride, and self-esteem, live on a spectrum. Having any pride at all is not equivalent to having absurdist levels of it. And from my experience, a lot of people in countries that weren't very successful (usually: poor, corrupt, or colonized) in the 20th century are pretty muted in their pride and/or will readily believe that people from other countries are "better".

> I also think that the “fetishization” of every day items in Japan is not being driven by the Japanese

Well, the Japanese themselves made capsule toys (i.e. collectibles you can get from gacha machines) out of water heater thermostats.

https://japantoday.com/category/features/new-products/new-mi...

That's just cute though, I mean, why not make toys out of them?

You get something similar in anime, especially Isekai ("other world") where the protagonist travels to some other worlds and amazes its inhabitants with something Japanese - Japanese food especially are nearly always founds to be extraordinarily delicious.

Lots of Anime / Manga is state sponsored through the government's "Cool Japan" initiative, a very well funded undertaking to project soft power into the world through pop-cultural means. That's why a lot of the content is either putting Japanese culture on a pedestal, or showing the "outside world" as a dangerous, uncultured place. Exceptions apply of course - Japanese people have weird ideas about Paris, for example, which they think of as "almost as good as Japan". I guess by associating themselves with French culture, they think it will make them more cultured in turn. A funny side-effect of that is "Paris Syndrome" - a described ailment in Japanese medicine for the culture shock when Japanese people travel to Paris for the first time and see that there are Africans, or men with beards, or a candy wrapper next to a trash can. There are reports of Japanese women fainting on the streets of Paris by the truck load.

That would make it even stranger given some of the dubious material in those anime. Gate is basically A JSDF ad, but still has a loli vampire in it..

I've lived in Japan most of my life and while there is some truth to what you say, I think the notion that Japanese are ultranationalists or that they think all other cultures are inferior to Japan's is plain wrong.

One thing is that nationalism is taboo in Japan. While Japan doesn't reflect on its war past as strongly as Germany, there is still a strong sense of guilt and any nationalistic sentiment reminds them of war times and is perceived as creepy. Also a survey showed that Japanese don't have as much confidence in their technology and economy compared to what other countries think about Japan. I think this is largely because the Japanese are more aware of Japan's decline than people from other countries who's impression of Japan might be from the 90s, at the peak of Japan's economy. Also humility is a strong part of Japanese culture.

That said, Japanese will love it when foreigners talk about their convenience stores, or any other praises about Japanese culture. I also agree that foreign media outlets fetishize Japan when Japan is just a normal country just like any other. Foreign media often write stories about Japan having a family renting business for example, and that particular story turns out to be completely made up. They also write stories that exaggerate Japanese politeness. Then on the other hand there are stories that exaggerate Japan's ultranationalism which is a very fringe movement. Foreign media just write whatever drives clicks and so Japan gets depicted as more unusual than it really is. Also Japanese aren't so aware of what is written about them and even when they are, they don't react strongly so as to force Journalists to correct their stories.

How is nationalism a taboo when basically all prime ministers since WW2 got into office on the nationalist or even ultranationalist ticket? Shinzo Abe is the most recent example - how many times was he elected, three or four I think. So your premise is wrong, I think you might have mistaken the façade the Japanese show to the world as the real thing. True, they won't tell you they think Japan is above all others because that would be rude, but they sure as hell believe it.

Well you are right that the LDP, the conservative party, has been elected basically every time in post war Japan. I disagree that it is based on nationalism though.

LDP gained power with the help of the CIA when the US was worried about the Soviet Union and wanted to rearm Japan (the LDP wants to rearm Japan). The majority of Japanese public has even up to this day been opposed to getting rid of Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution which outlaws Japan from going to war, which is why Japan's constitution remains as the oldest unamended constitution in the world despite the LDP's efforts to amend it. I think there's a big gap between how the LDP's right wing members (its worth noting that the LDP is a large multi faction party with a wide range of political ideology) and the Japanese public largely because many LDP members are relatives of people responsible for WW2 and so they have revisionist view of the war. The Japanese public on the other hand are Pacifists because of Pacifist education. Teacher's unions were largely socialist/communist especially the early days and strongly against imperialism. Also pacifism is a part of Japanese identity because of the constitution that prohibits war, much like how gun ownership is a part of American identity.

The LDP has been in power so long that it is really the only party that has experience running the country. Japan has had brief success in electing opposition parts two times, but both times, a major earthquake occurred (1995, 2011) and the Japanese public wanted the LDP back for stability. I think that the LDP remains in power today because Japanese want stability and harmony.

I will say that pacifism is waning, but this has less to do with a sort of make Japan greater again nationalism and more to do with North Korean missiles being fired towards Japan. Again Japanese want stability and harmony so slowly opening up to the possibility of constitutional revision is largely a factor of wanting stability. This also means the Japanese absolutely hate the fringe ultra nationalists who blast their hatred on their mega phone vans. I will say though, the desire for stability and harmony also helps the nationalists because the left (besides the communist party) sees protests as divisive and unfortunately pushback against the right is rather weak.

If anything most of my Japanese friends seem convinced that Japan is in freefall and that the rest of the world is somehow more civilized.

They are probably politically members of the left-of-center minority, have lived abroad, or both.

Do you speak or understand any Japanese yourself? If you ever tune into channels like ABEMA Prime and look at their political discussion of Japan's future you'd see everyone from left to right on the political spectrum all share a very bleak view of Japan.

IMO the only reason we (Americans) fetishize Japanese culture is because we know about it. That’s all. They export their culture better than most other countries (and not necessarily intentionally). People fetishize American culture in other places. Why? Because we export it.

Any group of people will have someone that will find something cool. But that someone must first know about that something.

I was going to comment the same thing about the sandwiches, they are deceptive about the filling. I usually go for mabodoufu or cup noodles and a salad, but to be honest I would be happier if I could get a roller grill hot dog at a Japanese 7-11.

> That said the conbini is often the subject of many Japanese food TV shows and I enjoy seeing in-depth programs of how something is made and the creativity in their production. I learned that 7-11’s fried rice is made using real woks with an elaborate setup of robotic arms to toss the rice with the wok and spatula. The length they went though to get the flavor just right is very impressive.

Interesting!!! Do they have an online version of the shows?

Japanese konbini food is way better and healthier than convenience store & most cheap fast food in north america. That is what everyone is jealous of and leads to the fanboying.

Of course there is better stuff in japan, it's the fact that the super convenience food is way healthier and tastier and better than the cheap shit in many other countries is the key point.

Sorry, no. Japanese (edit: konbini) sandwiches are made from this disgusting tasteless "bread" that feels like a wet sponge, has about as many nutrients, and is filled with the cheapest ingredients they can get away with.

Eat the onigiri, eat the boiled eggs, eat the nikuman, eat the oden or coroket. Hell, eat the convenience store bento or ramen or chicken before you even think about the sandwiches.

Or better yet, eat at a place that serves real food.

> Sorry, no. Japanese sandwiches are made from this

Surely you meant konbini sandwiches?

Yes. Actual sandwich shop and restaurant sandwiches are generally fine, although I'm still not really a fan of the bread.

This! Japanese shokupan bread sandwiches are an insult to the name sandwich. And the ingredients are always the smallest amount they dare put in too. You'd be laughed at in the UK for serving somewhere the same thing.

The filling can be skimpy, but for the price of the sandwich (less than ¥200 typically) I’d say you get what you pay for.

Are sandwiches in the UK similarly inexpensive?

This is the same price in Tesco, and it's the cheapest they have. They aren't cheating on the filling though, it's even.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/260255657

https://www.allsandwiches.com/tesco-just-ham-sandwich-review

Is that from the Tesco supermarket chain or convenience store? I’ve never been in a Tesco, but wikipedia tells me that Tesco Express (convenience stores) stores charge more than the supermarkets. It would be a bit unfair to compare supermarket pricing to a convenience store. Part of the value proposition of a convenience store is there’s always on nearby and you can be in and out in less than a minute (if you know what you want).

Anyway, I couldn’t find anything as basic as Just Ham at 7/11. The nearest equivalent I could find includes ham, cheese, lettuce, and “sauce” (actually pretty tasty… kind of like an aioli). It’s also more expensive than I remembered - apparently they recently increased the price from ¥248 to ¥270 due to increased materials cost.

https://www.sej.co.jp/products/a/item/050710/kanto/

So a bit more expensive at 7/11 but you’re getting cheese and fresh lettuce in addition to ham (we’ll call mayo/sauce vs butter a draw here).

Personally I’d have no problem going with the 7/11 sandwich when I need a quick bite on the run (and indeed I have many times), but I’d probably pass on the Just Ham sandwich. Even if they cheat a bit on the filling, there’s just a lot more flavor and texture in the 7/11 sandwich.

If you're buying a sandwich in the UK it's probably as part of a meal deal, that's a sandwich (or sushi/some other main), a "snack" and a drink. Usually for about £3 - £3.50 depending on the chain.

They're basically a loss leader to get people into the stores, they usually include things like energy drinks that are over half of the price of the meal deal if bought individually.

There's a pretty decent range of stuff included

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/shop/fresh-food/chille...

I think these would be the same price in both Tesco and Tesco Express. The higher prices in Tesco Express are more likely to be on less-obvious items, and often by carefully limiting range (like only selling middle/high quality pasta, not the budget pasta) rather than adjusting prices. But I'm not sure, I haven't lived there for years.

There are four sandwiches for £1.40 [1], egg and cress or cheese and onion should be slightly less bland. Paying more (£2.50 or so) gives more choices.

Bland food is pretty standard in Britain though, and seems to be what people want. For school, my mum would usually provide me sandwiches mode with

- wholewheat bread

- either cheap ham or cheese or egg or corned beef (not a fan of the latter, this usually meant mine and my dad's lunches were mixed up). Very occasionally more than one of these together.

- usually "brown"[2] or "yellow"[3] pickle, shop-bought or home-made.

- a whole tomato on the side.

I like to refer foreigners to Harry Potter, since they've often read it but don't realize most of the food isn't a joke.

> Ron had taken out a lumpy package and unwrapped it. There were four sandwiches inside. He pulled one of them apart and said, "She always forgets I don't like corned beef."

This sandwich probably contains only corned beef.

> After a meal of turkey sandwiches, crumpets, trifle, and Christmas cake, everyone felt too full and sleepy to do much before bed

Turkey sandwiches are bread and turkey, maybe some cranberry sauce if the house elves are feeling extravagant.

> Hagrid made them tea and offered them stoat sandwiches, which they refused.

Probably just stoat? But I would refuse these too.

[1] https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/shop/fresh-food/chille...

[2] https://www.bringoutthebranston.co.uk/

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piccalilli

sandwiches are the mainstay work lunch in the UK - loads of people nip out to grab a tesco meal deal or something like that. Our sandwiches are pretty decent (depending on the store - M&S do great sandwiches but they're one of our more middle-class shops so are more expensive) and you can often get them on whole wheat or seeded bread nowadays.

Disgusting? Really?

I can understand being underwhelmed by soft white bread, but calling it disgusting seems a bit extreme.

Calling that thing bread is disgusting by itself...

White bread is delicious, I wouldn't eat a PB&J on sourdough for example.

Then again I wouldn't qualify peanut butter and jelly as sandwich, but as cake... Specially if the bread is sweet too...

PB&J is a sandwich. This is not in dispute.

American food all round is weirdly sweet to European palates. PB&J as a sandwich is pretty out there from a UK perspective. The sweetest sandwich ingredient we typically use is honey bacon, and that's the exception to the rule.

The British should be careful to not throw stones from their glass kitchen.

Hey, I'm well aware that British food is very bland and beige for mainland European standards! It's a good thing we've developed a strong culture of culinary fusion to compensate for that - it's not all chips and mushy peas any more, we have our own remixes of many culinary transitions, especially Indian, Chinese, and Italian.

If you can use "we have food from elsewhere" as an argument, the nation of immigrants has you beat again.

beat? I didn't realise it was a competition. American food is just very sweet compared to European food. You Americans are always so competitive about inane stuff.

Also, there's a distinct difference between "we have food from elsewhere" and fusion food. There are specifically British-Indian and British-Italian dishes. I know that's the case with Italian-American and Chinese-American fusion food too - it's also sweeter, because yet again, American food is sweeter than European food.

America is a big, diverse place. I'm not even sure what food you're talking about when you say "American food".

Well yeah, but just as "British food" means universals like fish & chips or a Sunday roast, with subcategories like Welsh or Scottish or Yorkshire-specific foods, there's a broader "American food" category with other subcategories that don't necessarily fit the bill. Creole food is one of my favourite cuisines and isn't over-sweet, for example. But so much American food just tastes over-sweetened to me when I was just eating random things from the supermarket or takeaways or restaurants on my various trips over. Pizzas, drinks, anything involving bread, breakfasts, that sort of thing. Obviously there are exceptions but it's something that really stood out to me. Even mass-market food with direct equivalences (McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Mountain Dew) that we have over here, were much sweeter in the US.

I imagine most people use it mean things like hamburgers, ribs, BBQ, NY Style Pizza etc. Basically the stuff you would get if you went to an 'American' restaurant in a European country.

"American food": burgers with fries and coke, onion rings, pepperoni or cheese pizza, anything on the McDonald's/Burger King/Wendy's menu, ribs, bbq, Taco Bell (yup, American food), cheesesteaks, milkshakes, donuts... all the stuff you can get at literally any city and town in America, which will taste exactly the same regardless of what state you're in.

Po boys? Nope, that's New Orleans cuisine. ("but... New Orleans is part of America!"). Ditto for other regional specialties.

Inventive culinary creation from top American restaurants? Good for them, but still not what people mean by "American food."

The sweetest sandwich ingredient we typically use is honey bacon

It's been almost 15 years since I last actually lived in UK, but marmalade was certainly quite popular both for breakfast and tea.

Oh yeah, marmalade is great - but breakfast is often sweet in the UK with things like marmalade or jam on toast, porridge with honey, or continental breakfast (pain au chocolat, croissants). Sandwiches, on the other hand, are a lunch food and rarely if ever sweet.

Marmalade (and jam) is generally spread on toast for breakfast, rather than used in sandwiches.

There’s a reason PB&J is mostly a kid’s food in the US. As an adult, it can indeed be too sweet. I had some awesome homemade jam for a while that was way more tart that sweet and I was able to use that to make some pretty good ones. I wish I could find similar stuff in grocery stores.

I don’t think a culture that has things such as the cheese and pickle sandwich should really judge though. Or even a regular cheese sandwich. You’re so close! Just grill it.

A jam sandwich is what a British parent might serve a young child when, for whatever reason (illness, continued tantrums etc) they can't get them to eat anything else, or when they can't really afford much else. I doubt I've eaten one since I was about 12 years old.

I thought PB&J sandwiches took the same place in the USA, but it seems they're eaten more routinely, including by adults. They obviously aren't cakes, but if I were to position them in a buffet it would be right next to the cakes.

I wouldn't say the contents change what it is - a sandwich is a filling between slices of bread, nothing states it must be savoury, even though they often are.

Jam, honey and (mashed) banana are also sandwich fillings.

That said, there is no way it would qualify as cake, which would require a much sweeter and thicker batter - bread isn't the same.

I agree, toast "bread" shouldn't be called bread. It's off-putting and spongy, it just screams "synthetic" to me. I hate it.

See this for the process used to make "toast" bread.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process

Ahh, very interesting, thank you. I didn't realize they used a very different process.

Agreed. I'd say don't go to konbini at all. Every item has added price, and not really worth it; The food isn't so great, I also believe they add chemicals to persevere it.

In special cases, if your only option for food is a convenience store, buy frozen food/rice and microwave them.

Been to Japan twice and I agree. There is so much amazing food on offer, that conbini sandoichi really really shouldn't even be on the radar. If one really must go conbini, one should stick to onigiri and sweets.

Yes. Japan has a lot of good food but like any other industrialised country it also has highly processed bad food. This includes ramen, all the usual crisps/chips type snack foods, and from the sounds of it, these combini sandwiches too (never been tempted to try them when I've been in Japan). It's continually disappointing to see so much faddish focus on these non-nutritious bad foods, written by shallow 'japan expert' bloggers.

And for the more crazy stuff. I love the pizzaman. 7-11 does a pretty decent negishio pork bento too (not crazy, I just like it.)

If they have them, the negitoro maki tends to be pretty decent at all the combinis.

Luckily, in 2022 Bahn Mi is trending and available in many neighborhoods in Tokyo.

Those shrink wrapped sandwiches are equally bad everywhere

YMMV, yes I agree that the convini sandwich is something to try and the perfect thing for a quick "oops I forgot to prepare anything" picnic in Yoyogi Park.

However my main critique is that some times their filling is just a small line across the bread, where the cut showing the contents is, and the rest is basically empty bread. You can see an example of what I mean in this article (it's about Taiwan, but in Japan I've seen way worse): http://jonathanlee.org/2014/02/21/interlude-treachery-7-11-s...

You can also guess it from this side-view; yes the meat is just a strip along the cut edge, the rest is stale-ish bread: https://grapee.jp/en/wp-content/uploads/s-50126_05.jpg

It depends on the type of sandwich, so it goes from "always wrong" (like the last pic) to "it really depends" on some others. Normally it's okay though: https://soranews24.com/2020/10/24/25-different-japanese-conv...

The main culprit for this really is 7-11, FamilyMart and Lawson are slightly better in this regard.

I never really thought the sandwiches were anything special, the real gem was the fried chicken, the Famichiki or its equivalent that the other places had. You could grab a couple onigiri and a famichiki for the price of a sandwich and it would be way more satisfying imo.

I loved the Oden in winter - despite being unsure how long it had been sitting there. Also went through a phase of getting the アメリカンドッグ 'America Dog'.

7/11 is mostly a franchise setup in Japan, so things aren't completely uniform. The 7/11 combini I've been visiting over the years doesn't suffer from the empty bread syndrome. This isn't a big city, it's almost rural, don't know if that matters too. When that's said, the sandwiches they prepare in the bread shop in the nearby shopping mall is better, if anything there's too much filling. Anyway, it can never be truly good because it's all 100% white bread wherever you buy it.

7/11 prepares their sandwiches in centralized factories. They’ll deep fry things in store, but anything chilled is shipped as-is from hours away.

It’s a franchise but it’s notorious for getting mom and pop convenience stores to switch to being a franchise and then forcing them to stay open 24 hours and source most goods from 7-11. There’s sometimes articles about franchise owners working 20 hour days because they are required to stay open but don’t make enough money to pay employees. On the other hand franchise owners are allowed to tailor what they sell.

I don't think Japanese convenience store sandwiches are that much better than those from Spar, Mace, Tesco, Boots etc in the UK and Ireland, so I have to wonder how bad things are back home for the presumably American intended audience when all these kinds of articles invariably start with something about how shocking it is to even contemplate eating 7-11 food.

(Also a bit out of date, the tax is now 10% and must be included in the price printed on the product or shelf.)

I get egg salad sandwiches at gas stations pretty often.

My friends are appalled, but nothing is wrong with the sandwich.

Certain types of jobs I've worked (construction, lawn care), the guys make heavy use of gas station meal options (hot dogs especially).

Which gas station has the best egg salad sandwich?

Where I am, Cumberland Farms and Seasons are pretty good.

I don't buy them often enough to notice any trends, sorry. They all seem about the same. Sometimes a corner seems stale or something.

I was under the impression they're just delivered on a truck from a third party. I don't think the station (or brand of station) makes them.

I love SuperAmerica hot dogs!

My favorite are at CircleK. It's not the hot dog necessarily, but the nice ones have a good, fresh toppings center. It has coleslaw, and that's my favorite to put on top.

lol, thank you for posting this. I love those gas station egg salad sandwiches and any time I buy one with friends present I always get roasted.

I must also share, "how it's made - pre-packaged sandwiches": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS_hnmHWEcg

This video has always fascinated me because this particular factory appears to operate "just in time" for many clients. Always wondered if it's just this one place making all these types of gas station sandwiches in America.

I like getting prepackaged sandwiches at my local grocery store. They're usually fresh and are more likely to have better turnover than a gas station. If you splurge a little the deli-counter sandwiches are usually good too.

UK supermarket sandwiches are horribly mediocre and look nothing like what's pictured in the article.

The triangle sandwich of the UK high street is its own unique thing. It’s not particularly good, but it is culturally distinct. I have a soft spot for them. Tuna and sweetcorn; cheese and pickle: these are cultural artifacts.

A kiosk at the railway station in Germany will serve you an objectively good sandwich. Why doesn’t someone globalize the EU railway kiosk?

Probably because fresh quality produce costs less on the continent.

This said, Upper Crust is that attempt.

eh. Seem on a par, to me. per jnsie's comment elsewhere on this page, perhaps it's just England / the mainland that has bad ones, they're good north and south of the border in Ireland.

As someone with extensive UK sandwich experience, and extensive experience of being victim to sandwiches in the article, bad UK train station sandwiches win hands-down.

If you thought the bread was bad, the bread of the Lawson, 7-11, FamilyMart et al is far worse: Anemic, textureless, tasteless. I have no idea how the author could consider 'chewy' as an adjectivein describing it.

Fillings are an odd affair. Personally I prefer jam over an out of season strawberry. Fillings are also nothing as appetising as mentioned in the article. A sliver of tasteless ham, trimmed exactly to be on price target with perhaps one half leaf of iceberg lettuce. The port cutlet option nothing like mentioned, more like a few lumps of mainly breadcrumb, the off piece of meat.

Hitting a very narrow price range is what these sandwiches are all about. A very very narrow price band. This in true end to end supply chain, and is what Japanese convenience stores Excel at. No produce is on the shelves for a few hours. The microwave rice and noodle dishes are similarly precisely engineered. That there are three and three quarter mushrooms in your dish is no rounding error, that's the exact amount there's supposed to be based on all the costs and associated costs of three and three quarter mushrooms.

Saviour your decidedly mediocre UK train station sandwich. You could have far worse. You could have a Lawson or 7-11 one.

Have you been to a 7-11 in the US? I would be quite shocked to hear anyone contemplate eating much of the food if they could afford not to. Nothing at _all_ like the ones in Japan.

The way my parents tell it, 7-11 was actually decent in the US in the 90s. Set up an international division with quality goods; then the P&E thing happened where the international division got sold off and the US operation was stripped to bare bones and it's never been the same since.

Funny enough, it was bought by a Japanese company "Ito-Yokado".

Note that 7-11 in Japan and 7-11 in the US don't share anything beyond the logo. They have been completely separate businesses since forever.

Most of the US that I know of there are regional convenience stores with decent enough food. I'll take a Wawa sandwich over anything in the article.

eh! There's a certain amount of snobbishness in a lot of these articles. Sure, some of them are probably justified in their disgust, but let's not paint with a broad brush. The midwest has a regional(?) gas station chain called Kwik-Trip and I think their hot foods (fried chicken, potato puffs, etc.) are delicious. Never tried their sandwiches but they look pretty good.

Don't know what that says about me, but I really don't care :-)

Kwik-Trip is regional. They have a bunch in Wisconsin, but I haven’t seen any in Ohio.

Kwik Trip's the best gas station in town for hot food, bagged milk, and bananas. It seems to be working; most people I know prefer to go there over other local convenience stores.

Casey's (based in Iowa) has been moving into Kwik Trip's territory in the last few years, but despite Casey's bright, clean stores and some excellent gummi pizza slice candies, Kwik Trip is still king.

Casey's sandwiches (made fresh, to order) are surprisingly good and so's their pizza.

I'd heard about their pizza but not the sandwiches, interesting!

Kwik Trip has basically been taking over Minnesota, even though we have plenty of Casey’s. It’s incredible how many they’re building.

Pret a Manger is something I look forward to when travelling in the states. We don't have them where I live but they have that same appeal this article alludes to. If that adds anything to the understanding.

The only problem is that a Pret sandwich in the US is about 8x as expensive as a full meal from a Japanese gas station.

I tend to hit up convenience stores straight away when visiting non-freedomland destinations. Japan takes top honors. I've only been to Tokyo, but staying near shibuja or ropongi hills, the prepared food at 7/11, lawsons, family mart, are just amazing. I also tend to eat at Tesco or Spar in UK/IE (I just don't like eating huge meals alone) and I don't find those sandwiches much better than the US counter-parts (they are likely using the same machines and standard anglo-american components).

The article really dives into why the sandwiches are much better, tastier. Mind you I've lived within a block of fairly good Japanize food marts here that have very similar offerings (e.g. Nijiya Market) and would go there to get my fix every few weeks, but the quality and taste really wasn't the same (e.g. the rice wasn't as good and seemed day-old).

Really, everything in Japan had my 80's kid brain going nuts with joy. I didn't much like how prevant smoking was (nor getting kicked out of restaurants for not being Japanese), but I'll take the good with the bad (like anywhere). Absolutely amazing place.

One of my favorite parts of leaving japan is loading up on the sandwiches/rice balls at the airport - from the 7/11 vending machines in the seating area.. god I love that country.

The sandwiches in delis in petrol stations in Ireland are fantastic, in my biased opinion. Nice fresh rolls with fresh ingredients - and not as heavy as something like Subway. Handy in a pinch.

100% and they stand in stark contrast to the abominations that you get in the US. It took me a couple of attempts before I unlearned that one.

Meh you have to be more adventurous. Wawa, QuickChek, Cumberland Farms, Sheetz, Stewarts, etc. That's in the north east mostly.

Yeah Wawa rules. Growing up there never seemed to be much competition from larger chains. A 7/11 opened near me shortly before I moved, and the reason why became glaringly obvious: total garbage.

The Japanese sandwiches are trash too. It's not a bread country, so fair play, but this article is silly.

I’ve had enough Wawa sandwiches during my several years in the greater New York area. They are not garbage by any means, but also nothing to write home about.

Or a unnamed gas station in Louisiana, serving crackling and boudin as side to poboy.

In Poland, the Baltics and Northern Europe you can get very good food and drinks in petrol stations, especially Circle K - which is originally a US brand. They have self serve coffee machines that make fresh bean to cup coffee - it's usually cheaper and better than what you will find in chain coffee shops. Then they have a selection of freshly made sandwiches and other hot food that is made in front of you.

Taiwan convenience stores are similar, minus the xenophobia.

I believe there are very few xenophobia in Japanese convenience stores because many workers are foreigner and it's general service in nationwide. Some restaurants could be operated by xenophobian.

I've never experienced xenophobia in a Japanese convenience store (I'm an obvious white foreigner).

The original poster said they had. Not everyone will experience it, but it does exist. There are restaurants that won't allow non-Japanese in.

OP was complaining about restaurants, not convenience stores.

I'm also pretty surprised to hear that they were "kicked out" of a restaurant. Being refused entry is an actual if pretty rare thing, but there's something more than a language barrier going on if they're told to GTFO halfway through a meal.

I've lived for 8 years in Japan and haven't had a single incident of xenophobia at a konbini.

Though I will say I got a chuckle out of the ojisan who threw a perfect Microwaveでwarmしますか？ at me once :-)

If you ever make it to Hawai'i, check out our Minit Stops - shockingly good food.

Surprised the article didn't mention that you are generally welcome to use the restroom in a Japanese convenience store, which will usually have a spotless toilet with fancy robotic bidet features. At least in Tokyo a few years back, it seemed true of every place you went and it makes American cities seem savage and inhospitable in comparison.

They’re bidet-less but I’v never been to a convenience store without a bathroom in the US - but they’d all be gas stations as well for me. Is that a thing in inner cities?

Also, the actual public toilets in Tokyo are some of the worst that I’ve seen.

It’s Europe that’s inhospitable, bathroom-wise. First you have to find one, and then you need to pay. I don’t see how that makes business sense to me. If people are stopping to go to the bathroom there’s a good chance they’ll buy something.

By spotless toilet with a robotic bidet, I suppose you mean the washlet that's usually covered in fecal matter. Trust me, you don't wanna accidentally look under there.

Anyway, you're a madman if you're using a public washlet! Also have you ever seen a park toilet here. I shudder just thinking about it. Zero privacy urinals open to the world, or a squat toilet that the last 100 people didn't so much as aim into, but rather aim at. A layer of urine nicely coating the floor is typically your welcome as well.

The only "spotless" toilets I have seen have been in hotels and nice department stores, and sometimes the disabled toilets in some stations.

The glorification of industrial food? Japanese convenience stores sandwhiches are OK but do not deserve that kind of praise.

It’s relative to western convenience store food. Gas station sandwiches are some of the most depressing meals in existence.

"Western" - have you ever been outside of the US? Also, gas stations are not convenience stores.

Yep, European is a step up from American for sure. Still not as good as Japanese ones IMO.

European can mean a lot of things. Most of which are better than the crap you're sold in Japan.

Ehhh, US gas stations like Wawa and Sheetz are amazing.

Japanese convenience store egg sandwich's have better quality eggs than anything I can even buy in the US, short of maybe stopping by a local farm.

Are you being facetious? America has Whole Foods, Trader Joes, co-ops, etc. I took my friend from Japan to a Whole Foods, and the variety and freshness blew her mind.

And just with eggs, America has: free range, pasture raised, vegetarian grain-fed, "organic", omega-3 boosted, and any other thing you can image.

I know it's cool to shit on America as an American, and say everything is "better in Japan", but that's not the case. America simply has more variety -- both vastly better and vastly worse. If you can't find better quality eggs in America compared to what's in a mass produced Japanese convenience store sandwich, thats more a reflection on you, rather than on what's available in one of the richest countries in the world with a craze for healthy living.

Sorry, but you cannot find Whole Foods or Trader Joes in every corner. These stores are concentrated in affluent areas, and even there you need a car to find one. The typical American local store has pretty much disgusting food, highly processed and fat stuff like in McDonalds. In Japan, on the other hand, you can find this kind of option everywhere.

Let's stick to the issue at hand -- the above poster said that eggs in a Japan 7-11 mass produced sandwich are better than anything you can find in America. That's false. Can you agree with that?

Also you're making the assumption these sandwiches in Japan 7-11's aren't highly processed -- they are. You're also implying that Japan doesn't have unhealthy fast food like McD -- it does. You're also making the assumption that every town in Japan has a readily available 7-11 -- they don't.

Been living in Japan a decade and counting.

I don't disagree with the rest, but you've gotta look pretty hard to find a town or village in Japan without a convenience store (although I'll grant it's not always a 7-11).

You must not have been around much in Japan. Probably just Kanto or Kansai - but if you go farther, the Conbinis are really becoming rare.

> Are you being facetious? America has Whole Foods, Trader Joes, co-ops, etc.

I live a few blocks away from a very high quality co-op.

If I buy the most expensive eggs there, which I believe are around $9 a dozen or so, I can get something approaching the quality of an average egg in Japan.

Japanese eggs have the richness of custard. A raw Japanese egg over rice is a delicious meal all by itself.

> I know it's cool to shit on America as an American, and say everything is "better in Japan", but that's not the case. America simply has more variety -- both vastly better and vastly worse.

I didn't believe the hype about eggs in Japan myself when I first heard it, I thought no way could it be true. Then when I was in Japan I tried eggs for myself, and they are indeed that much better.

Also, better fruit in Mexico, better milk in Scotland, and many countries have better ice cream than America[1]. Lots of immigrants to America also complain that our pork is tasteless, and I think everyone is in agreement now that American chicken is just horrible and bland.

America is REALLY good at mass producing food, and up until a year or so ago, our food prices were very low compared to the rest of the developed world. But to get good food in America, you pay an insane premium. I bought some delicious oranges last week, likely the best I've ever had, but they were $5 each! Meanwhile the $1.99 a pound oranges taste like orange flavored water.

Back to Japan, their food safety and quality standards are so high that you can eat rare chicken meat. That was probably the single largest bit of culture shock I had when visiting!

Again I am sure if you go to a small family farm in America you can get chicken that clean, but not from any store or restaurant. (OK I know a few restaurants co-located with farms that could maybe pull it off.)

[1] Everyone does better pastries than America. The bog standard American cake mix is terrible. Thankfully you can get plenty of non-American style pastries in America, so that isn't an issue so long as you live in a large enough city. Annoyingly enough, for one of Whole Foods best cakes they use a different recipe if you are buying the slice VS the entire cake, by the slice it tastes awful, the entire cake however is completely different and really good!

Really? As a European who's never been to the US but lived in Japan that's shocking to me. You must have it pretty bad if the Japanese options look appealing to you.

Speaking of eggs, the eggs used in the Japanese convenience store bentos are fake https://soranews24.com/2020/01/15/fake-eggs-are-being-used-i...

I wonder if the sandwiches use the "long" eggs that are engineered to reduce the waste when slicing http://blog.livedoor.jp/fox_hunter/archives/51501365.html

This is a geek / nerd forum. Exaggerated praise of anything Japanese based on hearsay, falsehoods, or simply not knowing much about the world outside the US is par for the course.

Actually, the majority of the comments here seem to be belitting the opinion of the author and anyone who likes these sandwiches.

Beware that more often than not, the sandwiches are not as filled as you'd expect. https://soranews24.com/2020/10/23/7-eleven-japans-paper-tige... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHgIA1m3wNo

Yeah. I always grab them from behind so I can immediately tell whether or not they’re completely empty bread.

Most of the time they are.

There’s no magic. They’re just sandwiches that look pretty because they push everything to the very edge.

Maybe it's also related where you grow up and what's available there in a certain category.

Anecdote: When I visited London for the first time in the 90s, they also had these wrapped sandwiches in the fridge and they were SO MUCH BETTER than anything I had ever gotten in a German supermarket near where I lived. I am not saying we don't have proper food here and I'm not saying they don't have good restaurants there, but this quick "pop into a supermarket and find something you can eat with your hands in 5 minutes".

Someone from America recently told me about.. I think they called it "gas station food", some sort of convenience food they grew up with, on every trip (and liked it). We also used to have this at the bigger gas stations near the Autobahn in the 80s or 90s and it was simply disgusting. Everyone I know below ~45 or 50 would usually be "Thank god, finally a McDonald's or Burger King on my trip and I don't have to eat the worst Currywurst of my life for 9 EUR at a Raststation", if you know what I mean. Perspectives matter. Some things that should be at least neutral could be ok, good, or horrible where you live ;)

Gas station food in America is, as a rule, disgusting. The worst are the corporate truck stops that have 2 liter sodas and “cheeseburger” sausages on those greased roller-heaters.

That said, in parts of the country you’ll find single stores and regional chains that have things like daily-fresh egg salad sandwiches, non-frozen pizza and (oh god) amazing local beef jerky in a brown paper bag.

I’ve lived in Japan and I think for the foreigner the gob-smacking nature of Japanese convenience food is just that it doesn’t suck.

On one or two occasions in the US I’ve found gas stations where the owner also sold their own ethnic food: Indian in NC and Ecuadorian in VA. That’s always worth the gamble!

FWIW: It's not any different in Austria. I am so happy to that there's McDonalds popping up.

But hell, I'd have no problem making a massive detour on ever trip if there was a japanese 7-11 somewhere on the way...

I live in Japan for many years, it's a beautiful country and culture but there is a lot of obsession with the convenience stores. They are neat but the sandwhiches are really nothing special IMO.

I wasn’t aware of the fanfare of sandwiches and it seems odd because there are so many other good options. Even pictured in the article are the rice triangles with seaweed and a filling which I found way better than a sandwich. Lawson also has high quality fried chicken and other hot foods.

I’m not sure why you’d choose a white bread sandwich over those options, outside of hipster hype. I’d rather read an article about why Japanese convenience stores are so much better than in other countries, but the answer might be too obvious.

I’d also love to read some lore about the ever legendary “pocori sweat”. And the hot canned coffee vending machines.

They're crap. Don't trust American weeaboos on anything they say about Japan.

In Taipei, and Taiwanese cities as far as I've seen, it's the same! The main benefit is just how convenient they are. For example there's a place in Taipei where you can walk to 72 different 7-11s with a 10 minute walk [1] -- and that's just the 7-11 there's tons of FamilyMarts and some smaller stores too.

My personal favorite food to get there is the chicken breast and protein drink with 45g or so of protein for about $3.50 USD, great on the way home from the gym.

The biggest and strangest difference I've noticed about the difference between Taiwanese and Japanese konbini are that you can't buy vegetarian or vegan onigiri in Taiwan despite there being a ton of vegetarian and vegan people here. My favorite flavors, which are vegan, are only sold in Japan.

Also to give more context for the function of konbini in Taiwan (and probably Japan), they're for a lot more than just food: I pay my bills there at the counter, occasionally pick up packages (they act like PO boxes), and print out documents there when I need a printer. So really it's a multi-function store that's open 24/7 with pretty decent food and is on every street.

[1]: https://international.thenewslens.com/article/68424

I have not been to Japan.

I have been to Paris.

When I was there, apparently every other store on the block was selling, essentially, ham and cheese sandwiches on a baguette. "Jambon et fromage". They had cases stacked with them.

Simply, they were amazing. I wasn't there long, but I ate several of them. In fact, the last meal I had at the airport was one of these sandwiches and it was amazing as well.

I can't put my finger on it, was it the ham, the cheese, the bread, "being in Paris", but it's been difficult to find anything comparable here. Our "sub" sandwiches are just not the same as these things. Even the sandwiches at, ostensibly, "french" bistros aren't the same.

Maybe it's the water.

But, anyway, I know what I'll be eating as soon as I return, whenever that may be.

I ate a bunch of those in Paris, too. It's the bread, for sure.

I feel like I had that experience in Brussels. Its as if the sandwich started with a chance to be perfect, and nothing in that simple construction gave up any demerits.

I've had baguettes in France, and I've had baguettes elsewhere and there is really no comparison. Baguettes in France are incredibly soft with thin crunchy shell, whereas supermarket baguettes in the US (and elsewhere) taste like a three-day-old French baguette even the day they're made. You need a very sharp knife to cut them up, they're like rocks. It is very disappointing.

In general, it is very hard to find good bakery goods in the US outside of local artisan shops. A lot of people have just come to expect that to be the case (like "of course supermarkets have low quality baked goods!") but that just isn't the case in much of continental Europe, boring supermarkets have amazing bakery stuff.

The closest thing I've found to a "basically acceptable" mass-produced (i.e. available almost everywhere) bread in the US is Sara Lee Artesano (white) or Sara Lee Classic Wheat Bread. They aren't sweet or artificial tasting. Taste like a normal €1.20 bread. Unfortunately you are paying a premium compared to standard bread in Europe while tasting comparable.

PS - Still never found someone selling tijgerbrood/Dutch Crunch/Tiger bread in the US which is super strange, that stuff is delicious.

Dutch crunch is a very popular bread for sandwiches in the SF Bay area.

There's this collective Stockholm Syndrome in the US. People don't realize how bad just normal things like bread or vegetables taste. Start calculating this stuff in PPP and I think we'll find the median American is not doing so well.

I live in Germany next to the border and often go to France on the weekend for food shopping etc. - it's really remarkable that you can buy a perfect Parisian baguette, then go 5 miles to the east, buy a baguette at a German bakery and it will be a completely different, worse thing. And it's vice-versa for whole grain or sourdough bread. Extremely tasty and well put together texture wise at the German bakery, but bland and almost tasteless if you go 5 miles to the west. Exceptions apply.

(Fucking this.)

I love baguettes, but have NEVER had a good one outside of France, even in Europe. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places :shrug:

I live in London and have not had one decent baguette here, even from the so-called "French" bakeries/boulangeries. So extremely bready and tough, yuck.

It shouldn't be too difficult -- there are French bakers importing French ingredients in London, which has a fairly large French community.

Try searching in French for recommendations.

https://www.uneparisiennealondres.com/post/best-of-baguettes...

https://london.frenchmorning.com/best-baguette-london-2019-f...

etc.

Thanks, appreciate the links, I'll check them out!

FWIW I live in an area with a reasonably sized French community and the couple of people I've spoken to have steadfastly refused to give their stamp of approval to any commercial establishment :D

We call that terroir. Bread isn't just bread - it's made from flour milled a certain way, made from a certain kind of wheat, that grew in a certain kind of soil, combined with a certain kind of yeast, a certain kind of salt, a certain kind of water. Ham isn't just ham - it's a certain kind of pig, raised in a certain way, that had a certain kind of diet. Cheese isn't... well you get it.

You're not tasting just 3 ingredients.

Saved this comment just in case I hit France in the future.

Just find yourself one without the cheese. It's plain "jambon-beurre" (ham and butter). Sometimes it comes with pickles (but not sweety sweet pickles, vinegar infused pickles instead).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jambon-beurre

Butter. The secret ingredient is butter.

A few years ago, I spent about six months living in Paris and ate dozens, if not hundreds, of these sandwiches. My conclusions were:

- the bread is very crisp, light and fresh. It’s never heavy, doesn’t have other add-ons like oats or rye, and is never toasted or cooked

- a generous amount of butter is added. This is what adds that special flavor and makes the sandwiches taste amazing

There is no butter in baguettes in France. It's actually forbidden by law.

Butter is added on the sandwich, not in the baguette itself as an ingredient.

Yet you said ingredient.

The secret ingredient is an expression that does not literally mean "the ingredient inside the bread."

Regardless of that, the word ingredient can certainly be used to mean the components added to a sandwich. I thought this was obvious by the context, but apologies if that wasn't clear.

Not sure why you're misinterpreting the parent post like that. It's obviously on the baguettes (or for the pedants, between the two slices).

Not sure why you're misinterpreting my comment. The parent post explicitly states "ingredient", not "spread".

An ingredient of the sandwich, which consists of more than only the bread.

The butter is good, but it's really that attention has been paid to all ingredients. And the bread is just really good.

This sounds suspiciously accurate. I have no memory of butter being in the sandwich, but that would not surprise me at all.

It's not like these are fancy. They're not novel. They're everywhere, and they collectively makes hundreds of them, in advance, to an apparently insatiable market. And I have no doubt that the shopkeepers are as lazy as they can be, just like all shopkeepers, just like all of us, putting in just enough effort to meet the need and no more. Just some guy making sandwiches from routine, local ingredients.

As I mentioned also, the one in the airport was good. The airport! That bastion of fine dining world wide.

But, yea, they left a mark. They're wonderful.

Butter salt and MSG are the chefs secret weapons

It's a mix of competition and spending a lifetime perfecting your craft. There's just a different standard of quality when it comes to food in Paris, especially bread.

The key is the presence of discerning customers who have high expectations.

Every time I hear people rave about paris, I wonder if I saw a completely different world. I found the food mediocre and particularly pricy.

Conversely, I found Italy and Spain absolutely amazing for the back then non - affluent student that I was

Ugh, I hate articles like this. I'm glad the comments here are pretty grounded. For some reason foreigners feel the need to gush over 7-11 sandwiches -- it's the strangest thing. I wonder if these people just aren't that traveled or come from small towns.

First off, the sandwiches just aren't that good. They're mostly bread. The wrapping and cut may make you think the sandwich is overflowing with fillings, but you soon realize it's just all arranged in the front to make it look nice for packaging. The back end of the sandwich is pretty much empty. This made some rounds on Japanese twitter a couple years ago: https://twitter.com/kou17/status/1315447135865769985

Admittedly, 7's new high protein sandwiches are leagues better, as far as filling is concerned. A little pricier but more fillings and usually served on wheat or a baguette, rather than super soft shokupan.

Also, the next time you reach for one of those sandwiches, take a look at the ingredients list. It's pretty damn long for a simple "ham" or "egg" sandwich. As my fiancé put it, Japan food additive regulations just aren't as strict as in America. To paraphrase her, "Japanese companies can put anything in there..." The same way people scoff at the guy reaching for that gas-station sub in America (which I actually kinda miss), she does if I reach for a combini sandwich.

Believe it or not, America has pretty extensive food labeling and additive laws compared to other countries. Probably from the trans fat craze a couple decades back.

As an alternative to 7-11, Daily Yamazaki (in the mornings) and MiniStop have fresh food made in store: spanning from baked goods and sandwiches to bentos and onigiri.

I mean it’s just a better option for that price than you could find in huge swaths of America.

Ok so the reason I love 7 is because I lived in Tokyo during college and was broke as hell. I LIVED off of that food and in retrospect I was really lucky because if I had been in NYC (where I lived now) I would have been subject to worse tasting and less healthy stuff. It’s nostalgia definitely but objectively better than equivalently priced things in other cities.

I'd definitely rather have access to NYC delis/bodegas than Japanese 711s.

Hmm idk. Why specifically do you say this? I currently live in lower Manhattan and have a lot of love for delis and visit them often. But these places are very expensive in a lot of ways that 7 and Lawson isn’t.

Do you mean like Katz's or your random neighborhood deli? I live in a gentrified area, but a regular sandwich is like $7. It's more expensive than a sandwich you'd get at 7, but a lot more filling too.

Food additive criticism in Japan is tend to be unscientific. Take them with a grain of salt.

Or just avoid mass-produced convenience store sandwiches if I have the means.

"mass-produced" isn't a valid criticism.

Didn't posit it as a criticism. Also, did you check the Twitter link I posted? You think if these sandwiches weren't mass produced by an international conglomerate they would get away with that kind of (imho) false advertising?

I knew the sandwich gate. This is scammy display design but nothing related to food safety and conglomerate. I believe small business are less targeted to criticism on SNS. Blaming or praising big brand is easy to buzz on SNS.

When it's mass produced food like these sandwiches are (basically an industrialised process) then yes, it is a valid criticism.

industrialised != junk, but tend to be. Check each foods.

I'm with you. The glorification of all things Japanese is simply a reactionary, ultra-nationalist state of mind which has been adopted by Japanophiles from the US.

> In this the flour and water are mixed together, and then cooked which causes the starch in the dough to change structure and become more chewy and gelatinous.

> They also usually cut the crusts off for you which, technically makes the sandwich less healthy,

I'm confused by this section. They seem to be describing how most bread is made and I'm unsure how crust is healthier ...

Tangzhong is when the flour and water are heated together to make a starchy paste which then gets added to the dough. Keeps the bread softer and more hydrated than it would otherwise

It's like a roux sorta kinda - it really does change the texture of the bread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SROWxMuu-Zc

My favorite recipe: https://www.ethanchlebowski.com/cooking-techniques-recipes/s...

The Chinese and Japanese have similar methods for pre cooking a portion of the flour and water before making the dough. This helps to give the final bread a fluffier texture.

Go to an Asian bakery and compare the bread to say a brioche.

Is it a similar technique to boiling/steaming a bagel?

Bagels are “fully formed” before you boil or steam them.

This paste takes a portion of the water and flour that would be used to make the dough. Then you make the rest of the dough and add the paste back in.

I don’t know if there are similar reactions though. But the process is different.

It’s basically an enriched dough, similar to a French brioche but you make a roux initially to inhibit gluten formation and make it more, uh, cake like I guess.

Basically white bread with more fat, salt, dairy and sugar and less gluten.

Thanks, all, for filling in the blanks. I think I'm still missing the health benefits of the crust, though

I'm guessing the intuition is that "white bread = unhealthy", and "crust isn't white"? Or am I missing something? Usually the crust is just the same dough as the interior, but perhaps the caramelization has some health benefits?

It's mind-boggling that people in here think some fanfare is unnecessary.

People _love_ Taco Bell in America. Why? Because it's healthy? No. Because you get a large portion of food? No. Because you know the filling is even? Nope.

Why can't people come to Japan and love conbini sandwiches for what they are? An easy, cheap meal.

As someone who isn't a breakfast eater and actually dislikes Toxic (lol) Bell, I love visiting Japan and getting to grab a quick breakfast or morning snack for dirt cheap. A tamago sando, plus a hot bottle of tea, really warm me up and get me going for the day in a different place.

Sure the MSG that is likely in the tamago salad helps matters, but why's that an issue?

It's odd to see.

I have made several friends in Japan who are locals, and most of them enjoy their conbini food as much as I do and are surprised when I show them what we get (or explain what we don't get) here in the US at our convenience stores.

It seems lately that there's this anti-foreigner hate thing going on, mostly by expats (?) where it's like non-expats aren't allowed to enjoy things that are common in Japan or something. Clearly in general, sandwiches there are good because otherwise they wouldn't be such a popular item that even many locals will grab on their way to work or a picnic or...

Again, mind-boggling.

Reading your comment it reminds me when I was drinking 4 to 5 times a day from the coffee dispenser at my first job.

Was it good ? Hell no. Was it cheap ? Actually no, granular coffee would have been cheaper. Was it convenient ? Yes, it was the only hot drink available without going outside and lining at some register.

If someone came to me and said “that coffee is awesome, so distinct, why can’t people enjoy it more ?” I’d be dumbfounded.

As you say, we shouldn’t brigade people from enjoying what they enjoy, but we shouldn’t be barring people from criticizing what they think is really subpar either. As long as it’s just an opinion and nobody’s feelings are hurt, it shouldn’t matter.

I'm assuming the author is from the US. Convenience stores in Japan (and Taiwan) fill a niche that's desperately missing in the US: they're actually convenient. I can't get good tasting, cheap, fast, not-unhealthy food anywhere in the US. I'm not saying it's the greatest food of all time, it just sits in a nice spot on the taste/price/convenience/doesn't make you feel like shit when you eat it axis.

Wawa usually has good options meeting your criteria.

I'm not refuting you at all, but I had never heard of Wawa and I had to google it. Maybe if I grew up in a Wawa area I wouldn't get the infatuation with convenience stores in Asia.

It's not anti-foreigner hate in that case, it's the desperate status posturing of an expat trying to convince themselves there's a difference between them and a tourist.

There are many more countries than the US and Japan, my friend. And many with much better cuisines than those two.

> An easy, cheap meal.

They're not; combini sandwiches are junk food. So this is a shallow, faddish paean to junk food and deserves to be shot down. Just because Japanese people also eat junk food doesn't mean it should be celebrated (while all the healthy, delicious Japanese food gets ignored).

I'll celebrate junk food all I want, thank you very much. I love the absolute junk heap of fast food, mass produced puddings and cakes and the combini bentos too. The retort pouches and freeze dried meals occupy a special spot in my heart.

Those look terribly unhealthy.

Fun fact, white flour combined with water makes a permanent glue that was used to stick wallpaper to walls. The same highly milled white flour used in the bread on those things. The mayonnaise luckily is not a permanent glue!

> Fun fact, white flour combined with water makes a permanent glue that was used to stick wallpaper to walls.

And that is relevant how?

Uh... I assume you don't have a problem with water. It's the white flour you have a problem with, isn't it? I've heard of people who are against white flour and white sugar. Does that describe you?

I mean you can boil tendons and make glue. Are you going to ask to have your tendons removed?

> They also usually cut the crusts off for you which, technically makes the sandwich less healthy

why?

Its just made of the same stuff as the rest of the bread...

It’s a myth invented by moms trying to get their kids to eat the crust.

There seems to have been quite a bit written about how anything that's browned during cooking probably creates a certain amount of carcinogenic chemicals.

And a substantial amount of litigation and regulation related to this one in particular:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylamide

   "Although researchers are still unsure of the precise mechanisms by which 
   acrylamide forms in foods,[24] many believe it is a byproduct of the Maillard 
   reaction. In fried or baked goods, acrylamide may be produced by the reaction 
   between asparagine and reducing sugars (fructose, glucose, etc.) or reactive 
   carbonyls at temperatures above 120 °C (248 °F)"

It says there was actually litigation over whether coffee should have a Proposition 65 warning in California due to acrylamide, and it was upheld.

So clearly, anything that isn't boiled and is baked or fried in any way causes cancer in California at least.

Its so ridiculous I feel I've wasted my time writing how ridiculous it is.

It's important to have a sense of proportion.

It seems to be at the level of multi-million-dollar litigation and not multi-billion-dollar litigation.

If you were concerned about french fries, there is hope: "Pre-treatment of potato slices by asparaginase prior to frying reduced the acrylamide contents in the processed chips up to 81% compared to untreated control."

What the hell is asparaginase?

It seems to be a GRAS chemical produced from recombinant E. Coli, used in food manufacturing, because it's...better than acrylamide one assumes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asparaginase

   "As a medication, L-asparaginase is used to treat acute lymphoblastic 
   leukemia (ALL).[3] It is given by injection into a vein, muscle, or under the 
   skin.[3] A pegylated version is also available.[5] In food manufacturing it 
   is used to decrease acrylamide.[4]

   Common side effects when used by injection include allergic reactions, 
   pancreatitis, blood clotting problems, high blood sugar, kidney problems, and 
   liver dysfunction.[3] Use in pregnancy may harm the baby"

Haven't been to Japan (or any other Asian country that has these sandwiches) yet, but they remind me of something that's pretty common in Europe: tramezzini (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramezzino). These are also sold packaged in various stores. The bread is basically the same as toast bread, sometimes with the crusts removed, sometimes not. You can eat them cold or toasted (using a special device of coarse, not a regular toaster).

I think this is a case of grass is greener. A few years ago a Japanese friend visited Denmark and was blown away by the 7-11 food and described it as much better than Japan.

I think 7-Eleven in Denmark needs to be mentioned.

The prices aren't comparable (it's significantly more expensive), but the pictures are fairly representative of the products, and they don't short-change you on the filling.

(But 43DKK is 740JPY.)

https://7eleven.menukitt.dk/restaurant/7-eleven-hellerup

Indoor Google Maps photos of one above Nørreport Station in Copenhagen, which has a few photos: https://www.google.com/maps/place/7-Eleven/@55.682304,12.570...

I have to say I appreciate the simplicity of most of those sandwiches. I've never been to Japan, but from the description I'm reminded of good tomato sandwich or a pimento sandwich. In both cases, I've always found the spongy (cheap) white bread to be the secret, it meshes well with mayo and lets the main ingredient stand out.

Same in the Netherlands at Albert Heijn stores stock a whole range of cooked, ready to eat foods. They taste really good too. People routinely grab sandwich/salad/etc., for lunch. I think other chains (Jumbo etc.,) stock them too but I found Albert Heijn ones to be of much better quality.

I'm from Norway.

After living in UK ford few years, I noticed that I could not expect to find baked bread that tasted good, had the texture and crust as Norwegian baked bread. I even tried to buy flour and baking myself, but it didn't taste the same at all.

Maybe its the wheat - apparently there are a lot of varieties, this is about Italian flour but probably applies https://medium.com/the-cookbook-for-all/is-italian-flour-rea...

A lot of people here in the comments are stating that these sandwiches are a scam because the filling is much less than you are led to believe.

That is... true sometimes, but it's also common knowledge among Japanese people, and most people avoid the bad ones. See a pack of three sandwiches at Lawson 100 for dirt cheap? Yeah - avoid those.

And this kind of thing is talked about all the time on the Japanese internet.

Here's a good showcase of sandwich fillings:

https://dailyportalz.jp/kiji/160518196569

Onigiri is a snack I'd like to see catch on in the US. (I'm a fan of pickled plums.) They are fun to open and have a good ratio of flavor, fillingness for $1, and salt.

There's a small chain in the Bay Area that makes them:

https://www.onigilly.com/

But I'm thinking this is more of a gourmet/specialty food positioning rather than a mass-market fast food positioning. (The onigiri there are all hand-made to order, not pre-packaged.)

A little off topic, but another thing that pleasantly surprised me at 7/11 is that they sell Anker phone accessories.

Imagine forgetting a charger on a trip, going into 7/11 out of desperation, expecting to get some generic garbage that may or may not fry your electronics, and being pleasantly surprised to find accessories from an actual reputable brand. Something you will be happy to continue using after your trip.

Just one more example where the quality in Japanese 7/11 is surprisingly good.

In the UK, Tesco brand stores have a similar sandwich made with shredded cheddar, scallions and mayo.

It is off-the-charts delicious and if you get lucky you can find it with a yellow label — a discount for food that is approaching its end of life — for 69p.

(Shelf life dates are ludicrously conservative. Yellow label basically means the sandwich has been refrigerated for 12 hours.)

I recommend washing it down with a Meal Deal including McCoys salt and vinegar crisps and a bottle of fizzy mineral water.

I was wanting a sandwich on my way to work this afternoon. I realized that the reason there is no, nice middle level independent bakeries around is that these generic conbini's have cornered the market of grab and go foods. My options were some snooty tongs and tray overpriced but not so nice bakery, flavorless supermarket deli sandwich, or the curst(soul)less conbini.

The big difference is that at a Japanese covenience store i can safely assume i am not going to get food poisioning from a sandwich. Be wary of tightly-wrapped sandwiches at US convenience stores. I imagine tthe "gas station sushi" warning doesnt translate easily. Im sure that the stations in japan serve great sushi.

There have been numerous cases of food poisoning from Japanese conbini food

I suppose that fact they are 90% bread only on the inside helps reduce that risk of food poisoning.

British people love their grocery store sandwiches, but the reality of them is deeply disappointing - even the M&S ones are bland and thin, vastly inferior to what you could get from any deli counter in America.

These sandwiches in contrast look a lot more interesting. This is a fun take on travel writing too, exploring simple daily stuff.

Packaged sandwiches and ones from the deli counter are two separate things, and I don't think it's fair to compare them.

You can buy a bland, packaged sandwich in the USA, and you can go to the deli counter (or more typically, a sandwich shop/café) in Britain.

Hello Sandwich Guide to Japan - https://priorworld.com/editorial/hello-sandwich-guide-to-jap...

The Cult of the Sando - https://www.departures.com/archive/travel/in-search-of-japan...

Japanese Sandwiches Are Beautiful to Look at and Even Better to Eat - https://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation/best-japanese-sandwiche...

Wildly popular Japanese sandwich pop-up coming to downtown food hall - https://houston.culturemap.com/news/restaurants-bars/03-08-2...

There must be some universal novelty about food from convenience/convenient locations. My neighbor keeps telling me about the fried chicken from the local gas station mini-mart. He swears it’s the best thing since Popeye’s but I’m not touching that with a ten foot fork.

Miga sandwich are the same in argentina, half or a third of the price.more than 30 flavors on almost every bakery shop. Or you can buy the sliced bread they use and make your own.

One big difference, we don't have the sweet ones.

I dont think anyone in England eats supermarket sandwiches because they taste good.

They are normally the cheapest ediable option for a filling meal that's not too unhealthy that can be consumed in a 30min lunch break or at a desk...

I've never been too into the japanese sandwiches but other konbini items are great. But I think the best convenience store food I've ever had was actually baos sold somewhere in downtown Shanghai.

I live in Japan and the one thing I miss about the UK are Marks & Spencer’s sandwiches. If I never had a convenience store sandwich again I wouldn’t be sorry.

Every time I go to Japan I am blown away by the quality of the food sold in convenience stores. It is way better than most well-known fast food restaurants.

the same sandwiches as every other countries, just a different packaging color, what's the goal of the post?

ultra transformed btw, if you like cancer, eat them!

I go back every once and a while and the second I get to Narita I go straight to the 7/11 and get tuna fish onigiri.

a lot of people don’t think they are quality in america but sometimes an egg salad sandwich is exactly what you need. i also like the stores that have the pre warmed section with the times written in front of when they were put in

I wish konbini was sold in the US.

Seems like airport vending machines would be a great place for them.

Konbini means 'convenience store.'

Are you some sort of GPT-3 bot?

Would you please stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments? You've been doing it a lot, unfortunately, and we ban such accounts.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Maybe you could delete my account. I'd prefer that. I think maybe I have a tendency to argue with people and this just isn't the place for it. Best to remove the temptation.

If you aren't going to delete the account and comments could you change the username to something random then ban it? That would work.

You should email hn@ycombinator.com. But, you can also basically ban yourself, by turning on noprocrast in your profile and setting a short maxvisit and a ludicrously high minaway.

"Konbini" is the type of store, a childish abbreviation of the word "Convenience Store" which is too hard to say for Japanese people.

this post made me unreasonably hungry!

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