The Coca-Cola Company Suspends Its Business in Russia | Hacker News Reader

The Coca-Cola Company Suspends Its Business in Russia

coca-colacompany.com

85 pointsmudro_zboris109 comments

Russia will be greatly hurt overall by all of these sanctions and corporate decisions. Still, it's striking how many of the American companies pulling their products from Russia sell things that weaken and enervate the people who consume them. I personally would probably be better off if I lost access to all Coca-Cola products. Likewise for Netflix, Instagram, etc. It doesn't say anything good for America that so many of its big companies fall into that category.

> It doesn't say anything good for America that so many of its big companies fall into that category.

The big companies of America fall into every category, not just the ones you cherry-picked. You could have easily mentioned GE, Intel, MSFT, Apple, Target, Lowe's, Home Depot, Ford, GM, Kroger, Walgreens, Deere, Oracle, Caterpillar, and a bunch of other as-big companies. Those companies each have higher revenues than Coca-Cola, Instagram, or Netflix.

Chinese companies will fill all of these gaps as soon as they can and that will be that.

>many of the American companies pulling their products from Russia sell things that weaken and enervate the people who consume them

As for food products - let's not pretend that off the shelf native alternatives like kvass (or beer) are much better - they're still chock-full of simple carbs that lend themselves to obesity and insulin resistance.

Well yeah, but buying kvas instead of cocacola is better for russian industry, and worse for american industry. USA/EU stopping imports of kvas would probably hurt them more, but they probably don't import any significant quantities of those.

How dare you speak in such disrespectful manner to kvass, you philistine!

On a serious note, most of store bought kvass might as well be Coca Cola but the real thing is good for you - it's a Russian kombucha. The sugar gets all used up in the process of fermentation and the bacteria are good for you.

I'd like to see some credible evidence that it's any better than beer, which is also made through fermentation.

Beer can be good for you in proper volume.

IIRC kombucha is barely alcoholic, the fermentation mostly makes it fizzy.

I wasn't asking about kombucha.

I was asking about kvas.

Yes, and the poster said it was "russian kombucha".

CocaCola will be replaced by local drinks, netflix etc. by piracy, facebook etc. with VK.com, and china will replace the hardware (eg xiaomi/huawei instead of iphones). The disruption will probably be lower than in it was during the peak of supply chain issues during the first covid waves, just with enough toilet paper and yeast, and less of the stuff that isn't really that mandatory for normal day-to-day life.

On the other hand, europe will freeze without russian gas, and oil prices will make everything even more expensive worldwide.

The winner of all of this? China, with cheap russian gas (that russia will be forced to sell them, because they have noone else to sell it to) and more products/gardgets/stuff sold, with eu/usa imports stopped.

And the loser? Average joe, again.

Not to mention potential famine in Africa/SE Asia. Russia/Ukraine combined wheat exports are 25% of total.

Now look at how much fertilizer Russia produces (~23% global supply of ammonia, 14% of urea and 21% of potash). That affects a lot more than just wheat. Food costs are going to soar way beyond what they currently are, world-wide.

> Natural gas is a commonly used as a feedstock to produce two nitrogen-based fertilizers – ammonia and urea – in large quantities.

> In the production of ammonia or urea, natural gas is processed at an upgrading plant together with nitrogen (taken from the air). During the process, 80% of the gas is used as feed¬stock for fertilizer, while the remaining 20% is used for heat and electricity production. The two main end products, ammonium nitrate and urea, are then mixed with other ingredients—mainly phosphorus and potassium—to manufacture a range of synthetic fertilizers for use on farms.

https://context.capp.ca/articles/2020/pirl-fertilizers/

Easy fix is for the west to forbid anyone to sell food to China. China can drink Russia's cheap oil and eat Russia's scarse, expensive food while the rest of the world has stomachs full of the food that would have gone to China.

and eat Russia's scarse, expensive food

Now that Russia is the world's biggest wheat producer, it seems that Russian food will be neither scarce nor expensive. And also seeing that it produces a good proportion of the world's fertiliser, it seems that food grown elsewhere will be scarce and expensive.

Sounds like a great time to promote contraception, abortion, education for women as global values. Africa and West Asia's exponential population growth had to end at some point.

>population growth had to end at some point.

They'll be fine, I expect no prolonged famine, if any. Population growth will continue as expected. Ignoring western sanctions in exchange for food is a good idea if it comes to that.

> The winner of all of this? China, with cheap russian gas (that russia will be forced to sell them, because they have noone else to sell it to) and more products/gardgets/stuff sold, with eu/usa imports stopped.

This is true, and it's why sanctions are dumb. Another example is Belarus. My understanding is for years they played the West against Russia, and their authoritarian government retained some independence as a result. Then the West slapped sanctions on them, which pushed them into the suffocating arms of Putin, and it became a staging area and accomplice to Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

The West probably needs some more realpolitik. Not the fuck your friends and bow down to your enemies kind that seems to be a bit in vogue, but the kind where you admit distasteful allies into your alliances against your stronger adversaries.

> And the loser? Average joe, again.

The real losers are the Ukrainians who are getting their country conquered by invaders.

"Another example is Belarus. My understanding is for years the played Europe against Russia, but their autocratic government retained some independence as a result. Then the West slapped sanctions on them, which pushed them into the suffocating arms of Putin, and it became a staging area and accomplice to Putin's invasion of Ukraine."

Contrast that with Finland and Sweden seriously considering joining NATO, NATO putting more weapons and soldiers in to the Baltic and Eastern European states, Germany and other NATO states increasing military spending, and moving much faster towards energy independence.

These consequences are evidence of a major miscalculation on Putin's part, who certainly would never want to see any of that happen.

Not to mention the world edging ever closer to WW3, in which everyone would be the loser.

Meh, they'll be forgotten soon...

If this was some middle eastern country, destroyed by the americans, this would be a "peacekeeping" occupation.. i mean operation.

The prices and the financial losses of individuals around the world would be remembered more.

Sad, but true.

I'd say the Ukrainians are losing far more than the 'average joe'.

Those are the average joes. They’re just in another country.

Even before the war, in Romania where I'm from, gas prices became so high, that resistive heating became cheaper, when you opt for the national hydroelectric supplier (which anyone can do, they provide more than a third of electricity).

If you used heat pumps, you'd get 5x cheaper (or whatever CoP you get).

The companies pulling out of Russia will lose revenue. That is an objective fact. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

On the flip side, this isn’t that bad for Russia. Multinational corporations suck the life out of medium and small businesses. Such a mass exodus of goods and services gives the people of Russia an opportunity to establish their own homegrown businesses, which is empowering.

Not to mention the whole addiction factor of their products. Won't be good for moral.

Headline 5 years from now: "Diabetes and obesity in young Russian children has plummeted in recent years"

long-term fasting does indeed effect both of those things.

right, the "breadbasket of the world" is going to starve

The bottling company will almost certainly just make something else, according to available materials.

Maybe vodka?

Coca Cola don't (usually) bottle/can the drink themselves.

They make a syrup in Atlanta, GA, and distribute that worldwide. A local bottling plant mixes it according to Coca Cola's instructions with sugar (or HFCS in the US), water and CO₂.

Assuming there's still demand for soft drinks in Russia, the bottling plants are going to make alternatives -- either an existing brand, or a new one — from locally made syrups.

Between this and McDonalds pulling out the Russians will soon be the healthiest people on the planet.

Not to mention, they will have to do something with all that surplus product. I predict aggressive local marketing and an increase in diabetes rates.

Do not worry, they still have a lot of homemade vodka.

Isn't the aim of sanctions to hurt Russians? Stopping the sale of poisonous American foods and drink would seemingly only benefit them. If the idea was to actually to adversely impact Russians, Coca-Cola would give out free sodas, McdDonald's would give out free burgers to them, etc...

> Isn't the aim of sanctions to hurt Russians?

I think the aim of sanctions is to make Russians unhappy, more than to hurt them. If they're hurt by the sanctions but not bothered by them, it accomplishes nothing.

> Isn't the aim of sanctions to hurt Russians?

All Russians working in McDonalds or Coca Cola are probably not much pleased now.

And Kool Aid seems to be really popular in Russia currently.

They would probably have to give out burgers for free the way the ruble has collapsed.

I might eat my own words in a month but currently the Ruble doesn't look very "collapsed" to me. FX rate rose from 75 to 130 which is still less than what happened after the 2014 sanctions when it went from 35 to 70 and Russia didn't collapse due to this.

This time their foreign currency reserves are frozen in banks around the world. They will have to carry gold to China.

This is not Reddit.

Does this mean the world can eventually look forward to a new soft drink?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanta#Origins

> During the Second World War, the US established a trade embargo against Nazi Germany, making the export of Coca-Cola syrup difficult. To circumvent this, Max Keith, the head of Coca-Cola Deutschland (Coca-Cola GmbH), decided to create a new product for the German market, using only ingredients available in Germany at the time, including beet sugar, whey, and apple pomace—the "leftovers of leftovers", as Keith later recalled. The name was the result of a brainstorming session, which started with Keith's exhorting his team to "use their imagination" (Fantasie in German), to which one of his salesmen, Joe Knipp, retorted "Fanta!".

I always prefer Fanta or Sinalco over a coke and I wasn't aware of this fact. Very interesting.

The John Pilger documentary Burp! Pepsi vs. Coke: The Ice Cold War [1] was really eye opening for me.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3PjKrWdZ-E

Fanta, the brand name was invented during WWII.

Fanta, the original recipe, is not the modern orange soda, but was rather a soda cobbled together from fruit scraps and whatever else was available in a severely rationed Germany. The original recipe was discontinued in 1945 and the orange soda launched in 1955. I don’t think anyone could find original-recipe Fanta.

So Fanta was invented by Nazis?

Not the modern version. Just the name.

You could give that response to almost any product. For example, in response to 'so Windows was invented by Bill Gates?' 'Not the modern version. Just the name'. That doesn't change who invented the original product. So yes, Nazis invented Fanta--or more accurately, Fanta was invented in Nazi-era Germany.

I guess this is as good a time as any to remind readers of the time Pepsi managed to make its cola the most popular soda in the Soviet Union, trading it for Stolichnaya vodka and later their own military fleet:

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/soviet-union-pepsi-shi...

It seems that the press interprets suspending business in Russia as a show of solidarity with Ukraine. But isn't it also just a normal business response to the Ruble's freefall? The cynic in me takes the solidarity angle with a grain of salt.

It’s neither of those - ruble is not in a freefall and you are right to be cynical about solidarity. In reality this is just another manifestation of the cancel-culture, just on a whole other level, country scale.

I wonder whether Russia will be as isolated as North Korea.

That type of repression isn’t possible in Russia. It requires a cult and people who haven’t heard of the free world for a generation.

It can be as isolated as Iran however, which is pretty remarkable considering how close the now prosperous St Petersburg is to Helsinki and Tallinn. The contrast from today to a year from now will be extreme.

It's difficult to overstate just how big of a turning point this is for the world, especially Europe, because I can't see how Russia returns to anything like normal relations in the foreseeable future. There's no way they leave Ukraine entirely, and therefore the sanctions will remain indefinitely.

Europe is still heavily reliant on Russian oil and gas, but this is clearly untenable. If and when that business dries up, they will be truly isolated from the west.

> they will be truly isolated from the west

Or they will simply use China as a middleman for whatever products they want from the West (that China doesn't already make).

It's extremely difficult to actually harm Russia in the long term thanks to China.

I think you're half right: China will allow Russia to circumvent trade sanctions, like they do with North Korea. But, like any irreplaceable middleman, China will extract as much as they can from Russia in the process. China loses a powerful ally, gains a loyal vassal state, and Russia loses its political power. All in all, not a terrible outcome for the West.

I don't think China will be quick to help them evade sanctions. There will certainly be some of that, but Chinese banks are already cutting ties with Russian businesses for fear of secondary sanctions.

Yeah, it was a massive, massive disaster. The expenses associated with the new (hopefully) cold war will make europe weak and irrelevant on the global stage. That includes Russia. And what was this all for?

Can't North Koreans freely travel to and from China?

> Can't North Koreans freely travel to and from China?

Of course not, NK is an open air prison for its nationals.

Yup, China literally built a wall to prevent North Koreans from entering China.

Many thousands of north koreans still work abroad every year. Hard to keep an entire population completely isolated from the world when you have thousands constantly travelling abroad.

"Okay. I'm gonna get your money for ya. But if you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you?"

"What?"

"You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

Couldn't resist posting the quote since its from Dr. Strangelove and that has been topical lately. Clearly Russia doesn't know who they're dealing with now...

Then they'll drink Chernogolovka Baikal instead. Which is OK, I do too. Hope it stays available here, makes a real good pairing with sweet hot beef jerky from Jack Links.

Coca-Cola and McDonald are pulling out, this will give a final blow to the already weakened Russian pension system by considerably extending Russian's lifespan.

> Coca-Cola and McDonald are pulling out, this will give a final blow to the already weakened Russian pension system by considerably extending Russian's lifespan.

Yeah, sure Alcoholism has absolutely nothing to do with the terrible life expectancy in Russia...

Poor Russians. Less obesity and better teeth. To be fair less soft drinks and McDonald's is better for a nation. They are too addictive.

"suspend". so they are waiting until it's politically correct to sell diabetes again?

I am pretty sure these companies wouldn't get paid with the ban on SWIFT or the money would be stuck in Russia so it is basically free PR.

"Coke can't get paid so suspending business in Russia"

Good Bye Lenin!

Doesn't their product harm people? Wouldn't it be more patriotic to keep selling Soda there?

To be honest: What does this endless list of sanctions actually achieve in terms of ending the war, now?

Sadly, it does more look like a luxurious decadent virtue-signalling circus from the viewpoint of India, Brazil or China. ... Coca-Cola, McDonald's, Netflix, Facebook ... to the point of rendering this a joke: Oh, actually, how good for them!

The hard problem no one is trying to tackle is having the actual balls to start peace negotiations, like forcing a main player like China to the table: Look, here are our nukes, now, let us sit and cease fire for the moment: What is that you (Putin) want, again?

Even if Putin is totally mad (unlikely), at least we assume the Chinese, or the Rest of the non-sanctioning World are more or less rational actors? So where is the cold-blooded intellgentia of diplomacy in the West? Our Eastern counterparts are way ahead of the curve continuously refining their cost-benefit-analysis, game theoretical approach, engineering mindset, being careful not hurting themselves economically in the long-run. Like for a short-lived higher moral standing (with some "miscalculated" wars on our own meant to be "policing" but appearing imperialistic for a considerable part of the world).

Coca-Cola sanctions ain't it.

How are you going to do diplomacy when we know what Putin wants and it is unacceptable to all other parties? People keep lamenting why we have wars, well, this is why. Sometimes people are dead-set on taking your stuff by force. If you aren't okay with being abused, then you have to fight back. Sometimes negotiation just isn't possible.

Yay! And so has Pepsi and Starbucks and Ima bet that this was coordinated among them.

For the first time in my life I got off my butt and wrote a whole email to their customer service address indicating my disgust and threw in the 'boycott' keywords.

I honestly think that they will 'measure the anger' and that 'every lazy email' counts kind of things.

McDonald's, Disney and Spotify should shut down next.

None of this is important for the Russian economy (a bit but not much) - this is a little signal to the population - you don't get your 'Iron Man' and 'Big Mac' while you invade countries. The nominal idea of isolation is something that will impact a huge portion of the population and they may 'feel' it more than for example inflation, which can be explained away.

There was an interview about a teen girl pissed off because 'she can't upgrade her iPhone' - it seems pedantic in a time of war, but most people are concerned about those things. 'Pissing off teenagers' is a good way to remind them of what's up, even if it might have some negative effects, for the most part, it's constraining.

FYI Google should stay active, they're a possible source of information.

She wasn't pissed off because "her president started a war and now she can't upgrade her iPhone"

She was pissed off because "evil Americans started a war and now she can't upgrade her iPhone"

There's a big difference.

Once she finds out her incompetent government only makes her life worse, I wonder what she will do?

She won't find out anything, because all of the western media outlets (both traditional and social) have cut service in Russia.

Even Chinese are aware or not when they are making progress.

Xi's #1 fear is that the economy slows down because he can paper over everything so long as people's lives are improving. The moment that stops he's done.

We're not made aware but there are 'protests' of sort all over China all the time. People get pissed off over corruption etc..

People aren't completely dumb, the propaganda only has so much effect.

As people see their lives turning down, they know what's what.

I have no doubt that people are able to see what direction their lives are going, but even in the developed world with a notionally free media they can be trivially mislead about who to blame.

Good point. But if people's lives are being very materially degraded, and there's only 'one guy' then he will be blamed. Even if ironically dear leader may have made the right choices.

We have inequality in the West but our lives are not improved or degraded to the very obvious extent that they are in developing places. They have 8% growth rate - that's almost something you can 'feel'.

Don't agree.

First, she is 'pissed off' and that's a separate issue from blame.

Second, while we can't fathom the attribution entirely - Russians are fully aware that these sanctions hit when Putin launched a war/incursion. Irrespective of 'blame' the causality is their own.

Every day Russians are complicit - propaganda or not - and they need to be made aware and isolated from everything except information.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com