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Comment by WinterMount223 | Hacker News Reader

Are you okay with getting individuals possibly arrested in the name of a purported common good? You are no better than the FSB itself then.

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We are at war.

> You are no better than the FSB itself then.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To be honest I find the notion of "We" here to be rather dubious. Russia and Ukraine are at war, and while us private citizens of the broader English-speaking world can condemn one side, and support the other, pushing others towards the belief that this is somehow a total war and that every action is justifiable seems patently false.

Russia has been pushing far right, and attempt to disrupt politics in my country for years.

They have gotten Schroder on their payroll so he would sabotage german and Europe energy.

Now, they have been threatening western Europe with nukes.

Yes, we are clearly at war with Russia.

Words mean something. We are not at war with Russia.

malka is probalby using "we" as an exclusive first person plural pronoun. In English, "we" doesn't always include "you".

I don't mean any offense, but I think it's somewhat fascinating that the idea of total war seems assumed by both your comment and the original post. Even if the US and Russia were at war, the notion that private citizens were not just involved, but obligated to contribute seems to be a remnant of the world wars. What's interesting to me is that this notion seems to have disappeared, since to my knowledge there wasn't such an expectation with Vietnam and Korea (though maybe we can argue that the witch hunt for communists was something of a continuation).

Maybe it's due to the positioning of Russia as an existential threat? It just reminds me of the whole freedom fries vs french fries thing and the idea that there isn't a separation between geopolitics and domestic politics.

I live in Europe, I am french to be more precise. I feel Russia as an existential threat right now.

Right, and I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way, nor am I saying that Russia isn't an existential threat. But, at the risk of over-intellectualizing the situation, I think it's worth noting that for some reason, this Ukraine-Russia conflict has brought out feelings that citizens should be prepared to fight for their country.

This, at least from an American perspective, seems to be a sentiment that comes and goes, but has only appeared in very few cases in our past. I cannot speak for the French in this case, but in general I think it's worth pointing out because you'd expect military conflicts to be resolved between militaries and their respective states - this social contract being something of the foundational idea to Western politics.

Thinking that this is just between Russia and Ukraine is such a common mistake. Ukraine is the latest move in a larger chess game (remember Transnistria, Georgia, Bellarus?) where the end goal of Russian is a new world order. Instead of the current order based on western values and laws, Russia wants the so called "uni-polar world" to change such that it has it's own sphere of influence. That sphere would consist of weak countries subjected either politically, economically or militarily. It sees those as buffer states... and there are never enough of those.

Who is "we" here ?

Yes, we’re at war. The rules have changed.

You’re right, we should make the innocent suffer as much as possible!

If we are at "war" right now, then what is it called when US troops roll tanks into Russia... "super war"? Words have definitions. The definition of war is "a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."

You say it’s not a war and then offer a definition of war that very clearly applies to the current scenario.

If that scenario is defined as "Russia and Ukraine are currently engaged in battle" then sure. The United States and NATO are not at war with Russia and I'd prefer it stay that way.

Funny thing that word "war"... By that definition US has never been at war with Russia/USSR yet a large part of last century was called "The Cold War". Kinetic war is not the only form of warfare.

You are free to blur the lines all you want, but OP and everyone else here knows what the end game is and they're going to drift that direction regardless of what people like me say about the dangers of doing so.

That is called The End.

Their country is killing thousands of innocent men, women, children, grandparents, babies etc. The West needs to prioritize on worrying about whats best for Ukraine, and saving their lives. Have more sympathy for them. Once Russia lays down arms and skidaddles back across their border perhaps we start feeling sympathy for the invaders then.

What Russians need to do now is pick sides. Take a stand against Putin, or, leave Russia. Stay home & keep quiet? They Own him. His deeds. His mass murders.

Zero sympathy for evil.

Very easy for us westerners to criticize Russians for not protesting. I wonder if you'd be protesting if you lived in a place where doing so could get you killed?

Putin has been in power there for 20 years. Been attacking neighbor nations for at least 14 years, offhand. He has a clear track record. Info has been out there, and for a looooong time ordinary Russians were able to get facts, if they wished.

They've had plenty of time to move away. Some have. Some chose to stay. These are the consequences of the choices they made.

Again, easy for someone who has never been in circumstances like that to judge.

People have been protesting; So far, 13,000 have been arrested.[0] Remember: Russia's judicial system is not the same as the US'. It's easy to armchair criticize when your life isn’t on the line.

Is it North Korea's citizens' fault that they have a dictator? After all, they do have a "democracy" where Kim Jong-un is "elected": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_North_Korea

[0]: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-police-arrest-1...

Great. I have massive respect for any Russian who has stood up. Hopefully they set an example and embolden more.

There are several ways Putin can exit office, or exit the world. In the best scenario for everyone, the Russian people should make it happen. Thats a thing they get to choose. The kind of future they want. I bet that ordinary Russians dont want to wake up in a nuke wasteland, eg, and no American, European or anyone else wants to either. Because that is madness. But the Kremlin is a wild card now, and credible reports is they simply dont have the kinds of safeguards and mediating forces that most Western nuke powers do. Best if Russians themselves show him the door, before its too late for anyone.

We really cannot over-emphasize the seriousness of the stakes now. For humanity. Russians best step up, show the rest of us what kind of people they are, down in their hearts.

Now or never.

Did you call on Americans to leave the US during the war in Iraq?

What a weird comment. Victim blaming at its finest.

By the same logic Ukrainians can stop resisting and prevent WW3. Is it "Zero sympathy for evil Ukrainians wishing WW3?".

one of the most Orwellian gaslighting replies I've seen on HN to date. wow

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