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Comment by azangru | Hacker News Reader

Didn't they always (well, since WW2) consider southern Kurils their territory occupied by Russia? Has anything changed in their messaging?

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Yes, it looks like Japanese government just reminded about the position they always had that southern Kurils were occupied by Russia illegally. But the timing of the reminder is interesting.

I didn't realise it was such a big thing until I visited a festival in Hokkaido a few years back and there was a very large and busy stall soliciting signatures for a petition over the Kurils and with lots of photographs and maps.

It seemed slightly delusional (but mostly harmless) to me at the time, but now - who knows?

It's pretty delusional even in Japan, nobody seriously expects Russia to return them. Early in the post-Soviet era there were some serious-ish proposals about Russia handing them back in exchange for massive financial aid, but ever since Putin took the reins it's been obvious that this is just not going to happen.

I don't think even the Japanese government wants them back at this point, Hokkaido (the nearest big island) is already rapidly depopulating and having to administer a bunch of semi-frozen islands with random Russian pensioners and no resources aside from fish would be a logistical nightmare and permanent drain on the treasury.

Putin did return quite significant territories to China in 2008 to settle a dispute that resulted in a small-scale war in 1969, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict .

Fair enough, but the geopolitics are quite different: China and Russia are (wary) allies and the agreement was more about agreeing where to draw the line than handing over war spoils.

I'm not a fishing expert but I think officially owning those islands would affect their Exclusive Economic Zone. If the fishing there is good they could turn a profit even if administering the islands costs some yen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone#Japan

And would that include whaling? If so, I'm opposed to this and hope the islands stay with Russia.

It’s like Argentina and the Falklands. To this day you’ll find people trying to say they are Argentinian when they would only be by proximity. I’m Argentinian and I’d love for them to be, but they are not. Uruguay is just as close and it’s a different country, why not take that too?

Well, Japan lost WWII and treaties among the victors gave the Kurils to Russia.

The Japanese government's position via Wikipedia

> Although by the terms of Article (2c) of the 1951 San Francisco treaty, Japan renounced all rights to the Kuril Islands, the treaty did not apply to the islands of Kunashiri, Etorofu, Shikotan and Habomai since they are not included in the Kuril Islands. Also, the Soviet Union did not sign the San Francisco treaty.

Right of conquest. Remember, in International Relations, might is all.

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