Daniel Ellsberg talks psychedelics, consciousness and world peace
lucid.news
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Of course such an effect is not guaranteed (nothing in life is). Psychedelics need to be used constructively, not abused (as they were by MK-ULTRA and Manson, for instance)... but research has shown that psychedelic use is correlated with improved psychological health, increased empathy, openness, and appreciation for nature -- all things this world desperately needs.
If acid makes people more spiritual, peace-loving, and willing to question the system, what were the guys at the CIA like before they spiked the office water cooler?
> They approached the problem systematically, taking one step at a time, until they reached a point where outsiders were zapped with no explanation whatsoever. First everyone in Technical Services tried LSD. They tripped alone and in groups. A typical experiment involved two people pairing off in a closed room where they observed each other for hours at a time, took notes, and analyzed their experiences. As Gottlieb later explained, "There was an extensive amount of self-experimentation for the reason that we felt that a first hand knowledge of the subjective effects of these drugs (was] important to those of us who were involved in the program."
> When they finally learned the hallucinogenic ropes, so to speak, they agreed among themselves to slip LSD into each other's drinks. The target never knew when his turn would come, but as soon as the drug was ingested a TSS colleague would tell him so he could make the necessary preparations—which usually meant taking the rest of the day off. Initially the leaders of MK-ULTRA restricted the surprise acid tests to TSS members, but when this phase had run its course they started dosing other Agency personnel who had never tripped before. Nearly everyone was fair game, and surprise acid trips became something of an occupational hazard among CIA operatives.
-- Acid Dreams: The Complete Social History of LSD
I find a lot of people who actually seriously took drugs are very wary of suggesting other should do so too. Most of the people who are so trigger-happy to share this experience with either seem to not every had an experience to manage someone having a panic attack while hallucinating or anything along those lines.
(To be fair, this was not something that could feasibly be realized back in the mid-20th c. when psychedelics use first entered mass popular culture. One could be forgiven for thinking back then that these really were somehow unique in the insights they could open up. So Ellsberg's opinion on this matter is also quite understandable.)
Jeremy Usborne: It's just, Big Suze and everyone, they're coming over. And you might want to make yourself scarce because we're going to be taking some magic mushrooms.
Mark Corrigan: Magic mushrooms?
Jeremy Usborne: Yes, and we're gonna smash down the doors of perception so we can see all the stuff that...
Mark Corrigan: Isn't really there.
Jeremy Usborne: That is really there but we don't normally see because we're so transfixed on...
Mark Corrigan: The stuff that is really there.
Jeremy Usborne: Oh, it's so simple for you, isn't it? But the truth that you're so scared of hearing is that in fact reality and fantasy are exactly the same thing.Yes, that is scary. And it should be!
When someone stops being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, they join people suffering from psychosis in being vulnerable to delusions and hallucinations.
It's often said that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia. I think we should not overstretch that analogy, but the attitude of some that artificial 5-HT2A agonism somehow grants your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth is worrying.
You're nudging a lever that your own body built and placed. If there was value in permanently pushing it all the way, would the body have evolved to leave it at baseline?
Sure. Evolution is not a designer.
I'm no biologist, but I think it's pretty clear that evolution gets stuck in local optima all the time. See the common gripe about humans using the same pipe for breathing and eating.
That said, I agree that messing with human biology is risky business for uncertain payoff. We simultaneously know mountains and nothing about ourselves and how we function.
Sometimes, sure. But how do you explain differing opinions perceived as facts (ask some people, they'll tell you!), or the common scenario whereby people speak as if they can read minds or the future (pop into any culture war thread right here on HN)? If one has these symptoms while in (or after) a drug-altered state of consciousness is this psychosis, but if one has them under normal consciousness is it not?
> It's often said that psychedelics mimic schizophrenia. I think we should not overstretch that analogy, but the attitude of some that artificial 5-HT2A agonism somehow grants your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth is worrying.
Do you believe that it does not grant your brain access to some deeper fantastical truth, at all? Do you believe that this belief is true?
I think most people who have taken psychedelics would understand that doesn't mean pink elephants, that's not what it's all about and doesn't actually happen (depending on what and how much you're taking, but most "normal" experiences generally don't have you seeing aliens and shit).
The fact that the things you mention sound strange and unneeded at individual level, doesn’t mean it is not real [and useful?] as a social element.
Rather than being illusory, this "agreed game of pretend" actually does, as it turns out, have far reaching and marked effects over the physical ("real") world (which is also largely human-built at the present).
For me, the big epiphany from dabbling with LSD, was that this built environment (both physical and social) is malleable by me and other humans not because it's imaginary, but because it's literally our creation successively replacing more and more of what was here before.
I think there is a danger in viewing human progress and social mores as pretend because it can lead to a subject questioning deeper aspects of reality that start to tread into pink elephant territory which I think might be more common in normal LSD users than you are giving credit for.
LSD showed me there was another path that had been hidden. Ram Dass called hallucinogens "training wheels." He said it was helpful for Westerners because we're very ego bound, trapped in the glory of our own reflection and individualistic that merging into "one" was difficult. Enlightenment as a mental state has been around a lot longer than LSD. It's the spiritual practice and study that counts.
In smaller doses I think most people will experience a positive trip if they have a good set and setting.
In higher doses though, the trip is more unpredictable and harder to control. You can't overpower negative thoughts as well because your brain works differently than you're used to.
I can't begin to explain how scary it is when time starts slowing to a crawl, looping and your mind and thoughts don't make sense anymore. Some people never really come back from that. Taking a "heroic" McKenna dose of 5+ grams of mushrooms is extremely stupid and dangerous. Don't do this.
Likewise I think self-medicating with psychedelics to fix mental health is very risky but some risks may be worth it I suppose.
The best advice I heard was if things are going really wrong you should change the lighting and/or move to a different location for a reset. In addition to that do it in nature with people you trust. Also probably don’t do an extremely strong microdot on your first go :-)
No. First, the theory is that they would use fly agaric to go berserk, a mushroom that, while a hallucinogen, gives a very different trip than psilocybin or typical magic mushrooms. Second, there is no evidence the Vikings used drugs prior to battle.
That being said, they could have learned the use of fly agaric from the Sami, who, like other Uralic people, used it for shamanic practices. The practice of using henbane in beer brewing was common in Europe right up until the 16th century or so, so they were likely no strangers to tripping.
A few summers ago I ingested a few grams, and the awful texture and immediate urge to vomit was suppressed, so i rapidly chewed and just swallowed. This is what followed: the usual anxiety ridden come up and your ego being destroyed, followed by a cathartic positivity, that appears to last the next few days.
Of course I'm hiding the bad parts: panic attacky omg what have i done followed by realization that the ego is not real (in very large doses I've experienced ego death and transcendental experience as if I could "see" for the first time, perceive reality as is without any bias, judgement or thought, VERY SCARY because it really feels like you are dead but actually your self separating from the ego, it is a mental creation and it's attachment that forms being the root of suffering.
I make this one key observation about that trip: I sat on the toilet for an hour just pooping until only clear mucus started coming out. This is my theory but we know that the gut has its own "brain" or biome that is said to influence our minds, and its this cleansing (I feel like I was literally pooping out depression) that is ever lasting.
It's the come up that makes it tough to enjoy psilocybin recreationally, in fact I've had scary trips that really make me put lot of thought into my surrounding (generally prefer being outdoors in the grass on a sunny day with meditation), and truth be told it's not like you do it once and your depression is cured, it took some experimenting.
Having said that I do not recommend the Terrence Mckenna's "5 grams or nah" shotgun approach, especially if you've never even consumed anything but alcohol.
DISCLAIMER: Please be careful and its best if you have someone nearby who is experienced but I did it alone. One realization that helped me with loneliness is that I realize I am never really alone because I felt closeness to earth.
This is a path that the demographic on HN might not be ready to accept but damn it feels good to not be on anti-depressants or smoking marijuana to cope. On THC, I felt like whenever I started toking again, it would start bringing back the old energy, it felt like it was undoing the impact of 4-HO-DMT which is said to be encouraging neurgenesis (which explains the reduction in anxiety, ocd and depression).
Can't have it all but one thing I feel like psilocybin isn't good at is helping with PTSD, I'm still awaiting trials for MDMA trials as I've heard good things about it (charite.de)
it's tough for me to summarize the whole experience but if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer, my only concern is that in very very rare cases you have stuff like ppl jumping off buildings but it seems to be cohabited by other issues, I am not an expert or qualified to speak on this matter, so again please have a sitter and do it in a safe place where it is impossible to harm yourself.
I am older now and I feel like I've experimented enough to call it quits but I am very thankful to the mushroom, earth, and other humans that have opened my other eye. It absolutely is beneficial to humanity to study this more and I am very excited to see more awareness in countries like Canada.
Start very small but make sure you take long break in between, there is a dosage guideline out there. I feel like I'm "getting too old for this" and I find myself increasingly preferring sober and feel like exercise is truly king.
When we say we want peace in the world, we really mean we want peace in the human world. And the human world is made of humans. But each person wants peace to be achieved by all other humans making themselves peaceful -- very few people have any practice to make themselves more peaceful.
If you want to make yourself more peaceful, this is the way I recommend: https://library.dhammasukha.org/uploads/1/2/8/6/12865490/the...
Reminds me of the Hebrew word "shalom":