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Comment by rfoo | Hacker News Reader

No. Rust can not prevent this bug.

The bug is that they are reusing (or, repurposing) an already-allocated-and-used buffer and forgot to reset flags. This is a logic bug, not a memory safety bug.

In fact, this might be a prime example of "using Rust does not magically eliminate your temporal bugs because sometimes they are not about memory safety but logical". Before that my favorite such bug is a Use-After-Free in Redox OS's filesystem codes.

Pro tip for random HN Rust evangelist: read the fucking code before posting your "sHoUlD HAVe uSED A BeTTER lANGUAGE" shit.

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This is only partially fair. In Rust you would probably have assigned a new object into *buf here instead of overwriting the fields manually. It is good practice to do this (if the code is logically an object initialization, it should actually be an object initialization, not a bunch of field assignments), but it's clunky to do so in C because you can't use initializers in assignments.

The point is: You could have done this in Rust, but you wouldn't have been required to do so, so the exact same logic bug could have emerged. Maybe it would be more Rust-like to write the code like that, but it would have also been possible to write the code like that in C - and since we're talking about the kernel here, even if this code was written in Rust a developer might have written it in the more C-like way for performance reasons.

People writing C don't re-use allocated objects because it's clunky but to improve performance. The general purpose allocators are almost always much slower than something where you know the pattern of allocations. I've no idea if Rust has a similar issue. I would think that most kernel code, whether C or Rust, would need to handle "allocation fails" case and not depend on language constructs to do allocations, but that's just a guess.

I'm not saying you shouldn't reuse allocated objects. I'm talking about building a local object (no dynamic allocation) and assigning it to the pointer at once. This has the same runtime behavior (assuming -O1) as assigning the fields one by one.

See https://godbolt.org/z/Wh5KcTaGY for what I'm talking about, the local allocation is easily eliminated by the compiler.

The equivalent in C is to create a temporary local variable with an initializer list then write that variable to the pointer.

you can assign a new object into *buf in C just fine, with "*buf = (struct YourType){.prop1 = a, .prop2 = b}"; it even zero-initializes unset fields! So C and Rust give you precisely the same abilities here.

edit: the "struct pipe_buffer" in question[1] has one field that even the updated code doesn't write - "private". Not sure what it's about, but it's there. Not writing unrelated fields like that is probably not much of an issue now, but it certainly can add up on low-power systems. You might also have situations where you'd want to write parts of an object in different parts of the code, for which you'd have to resort to writing fields manually.

[1]: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/719fce7539cd3e186598e...

Oh I was not aware of this syntax in C, thanks for bringing it up! I still think the pattern is more common and known in Rust but I might be wrong :)

Re: your other points, "reusing a pre-allocated struct from a buffer" is basically object initialization, which is different from other times you want to write fields. In general an object initialization construct should be used in those cases, this whole thread being an argument why. Out-of-band fields such as the "private" field are a pain I agree, but they can be separated from an inner struct (in which case the inner struct is the only field that gets assigned for initialization).

Taking a step back, the true solution is probably to have a proper constructor... And that can be done in any language, so I'll stand corrected.

The question of safety is often much more about coding standards than actual language features. For a kernel, you'd be violating Rust's safety features left right and center (or have a slow kernel that just dies on OOM; choose one) and would have to come up with your own standards for preventing coding errors in those, which is what you already have with C.

To be clear, some base level of trivially safe code is certainly a nice-to-have. I just don't think the amount that helps for a kernel is that much, and the added boilerplate on more unsafe things might even obscure issues.

I think you need to have C99 for that, and the kernel is still using C89. If C needs to die, then C89 needs to die first :)

as far as I understand, the kernel uses C89 + GNU extensions, cause there definitely are usages in the kernel of it. (my searching showed it being only used for defining globals, which is a weird standard, but I don't see anything preventing using it elsewhere if they wanted to)

And there are recent plans to move the kernel to a newer C version anyway.

I agree with your sentiment. Only the most strict pure functional languages will prevent you from reusing objects.

You could argue that some languages distinguish raw memory from actual objects and even when reusing memory you would still go through an initialization phase (for example placement new in C++) that would take care of putting the object into a known default state.

> The bug is that they are reusing (or, repurposing) an already-allocated-and-used buffer and forgot to reset flags. This is a logic bug, not a memory safety bug.

This statement is incorrect. They are using an arena allocator, and there is no way for it to know if it is reusing one of the elements or using that element for the first time. To do this in Rust you would probably be using the MaybeUninit type: https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/mem/union.MaybeUninit.html

However, you are partly correct. In Rust, when using the MaybeUninit type, it is still possible to partially initialize an object and then return it as if it were fully initialized without hitting a compile error. https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/mem/union.MaybeUninit.html#ini...

If you do the whole struct at once, rather than one field at a time, then the compiler still has your back:

    let foo = unsafe {
      let mut uninit: MaybeUninit<Foo> = MaybeUninit::uninit();
      uninit.write(Foo {
        name: "Bob".to_string(),
        list: vec![0, 1, 2]
      })
    }

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