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Comment by sodality2 | Hacker News Reader

I'm still young so maybe my mind hasn't matured enough to where I can combat this well. So I went heavy-handed - I have a button on my desk that when I press it, my server's DNS server (through which all my devices and router resolve) begins rejecting requests to reddit, instagram, twitter, hackernews, news.google.com, etc.

For the next two hours, there is nothing I can do outside of SSH'ing through my mobile device (purposefully don't have an app for it) and resetting the countdown on the DNS server and restarting the server, to allow these DNS requests. It denies all SSH connections from my home network, and doesn't even resolve its own subdomain (dns.my-domain.com for the DNS dashboard) for me to reset it.

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My (crude) version of the same thing requires that I go 1000 meters from my house to press the button to enable the DNS for another 30 min of browsing (button is on a custom phone app, distance measured using phone GPS).

One feature that I want to implement is to have the system randomly enable for 10 minutes - and to signal this by changing the color of light from a desk lamp (Phillips Hue). The idea is that when this happens, I would drop what I was doing and leap for my phone to get some bonus browsing in. Me being controlled by the system like this might be fun?, or at least illustrate something?

Related to this but somewhat tangentially, I’ve been trying to figure out how I could programmatically determine if I look “busy” and engage Do Not Disturb for a period of time (roughly pomodoro interval) so that emails and alerts can’t distract me. The problem is that when I’m doing rudimentary code my interactions can be rather intense and obvious, but the more technical the problem the more I slow down, mulling things over in my head or wondering why we wrote code this bad and why it hasn’t broken before. I can be pretty deep in thought at this point and not showing my tools much to go off of.

In the end I think just making a pomodoro tool that automatically disables alerts until break is by far a simpler and more accurate prospect.

I have tried a number of similar approaches (pomodoro etc) before which let us to create an extension to auto-toggle notifs when you focus on coding. Works for VS Code so far. Check out https://stateful.com/@sourishkrout & https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=stateful.... If you're on VS Code I'd love to hear what you think.

Seems like it would be ineffective while traveling. Unless you could configure it to be 1000 meters from current location! I'm interested in doing something like this. I've been playing way too much Elden Ring this week and I'd like to cut back in general on consumption of anything.

Before I read "custom phone app", I was imagining a mysterious physical red button somewhere up a telephone pole you had to climb, which through some abuse-of-job-privileges-or-connections you had wired directly into the telephony wires leading into your house. Or perhaps a comically large high-voltage pull switch labelled "reddit" which sparks a bit for no reason. Maybe a series of such pull switches, one for every major distracting website.

I wish you hadn't clarified.

Just coming here down to note that despite, or because the lizard part, our brains are wonderful creation machines. All the comments up to this parent, including the mysterious physical red button, are great.

On my part, I think the trick is being selective with the addictions we indulge in. Exercise, reading, having sex, cooking, going on walks, writing, 3D modelling. A good mix of addictions is great in life!

That would have been so much better. It would force OP to run back to maximize his browsing time, thus forcing them to exercise a bit.

I just realized: you did not actually hide some mysterious, physical button somewhere 1000m from your home.

Wmitty I've dreamed of this. Any chance you want to sell the setup?

People who still build magical red buttons and DNS blockers aren't that far gone, they can still build stuff. Most of us are completely paralized on our couches, drooling at the telescreen while a steady dose of soma is administered. Writing a comment is a chore and building a custom app is a distant dream project. We have plenty of daydreams, but are no longer capable of executing them.

My method is super simple but does require a wee bit of self discipline. I "HALT!". I even have "HALT!" written on a post-it on my monitor. Whenever I notice that my (valuable) attention is wandering, I yell "HALT!" in my head or out loud (depending who is nearby). This makes me snap out of it, to break the pattern. Ideally, I return to what I should be doing but very often I can only do the minimum. The minimum being sitting there doing nothing, thinking of nothing (except the thing I should be doing), until I get bored and want to do something ... but only allowing myself to do what I should be doing otherwise I must continue to sit doing nothing (being halted). It's often too hard to halt AND switch do what I should be doing, so this method breaks it into two steps. Halting alone is much easier to force myself to do since doing nothing is easy. Once in halt-state, the only possible exit is to the proper do-state.

Oh, I just noticed something. HALT!

Reminds me of Always Sunny, "Sickness, BEGONE!!"

I just ditched my smartphone entirely. Humanity survived until the 00s without them. You can too.

Humanity survived without winter jackets until the Ice Age. Then all of humanity would have gone extinct without them.

Yeah but there is nothing on social media that you actually need to survive.

phones are pretty convenient though. even just having a camera and gps in one small device is nice.

For day to day activities? No, you probably don't need GPS and camera.

I gave up my smartphone a decade ago. It's only "inconvenient" when people expect me to have internet in my pocket.

I don't _need_ it but using a smartphone instead of navigating via a physical map and taking photos of memorable events throughout the day sure is nice.

The car has a map + navigation already, and I care very little about documenting events... although I do use the phone during tear downs for the purpose. Still the prime use of the (my) phone is actual phone calls.

There are a lot of tools on life, that make it more convenient, that aren't required to survive. Like a hammer for example.

Smartphones aren't only for social media.

Not sure that's the same thing.

Same here. I have an iPhone that I take with me maybe once a week, e.g. if I know I will need to call an Uber.

Exploring the option of getting a feature phone but do I really need to carry it?

I also tried a Linux phone but it wasn't very good in terms of usability and it soon became unusable due to hardware failure.

Out of interest, which Linux phone did you try?

PinePhone Convergence edition, I had an OK experience with Mobian but quite a bad experience with the default distro.

The HW failure was largely my fault because I didn't take good care of it.

The new PinePhone Pro looks very promising, looks like it can be a daily driver and I would like to try it out as soon as Mobian runs on it.

Edit: I'm not clear if Mobian runs on PinePhone Pro already? Looking at this link it seems it does https://blog.mobian.org/posts/2021/12/28/pinephone-pro/ but looking here, it seems we're not quite there yet: https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Pro_Software_Releases...

I mean you can doom scroll on a desktop or laptop machine as well.

Interestingly I find that while you can doom scroll on a laptop for me it doesn’t “work”. Perhaps because my laptop is work territory (both actual work and hobby) so I automatically don’t doom scroll there or maybe it’s just that lots of content is optimised for mobile and the experience is “better”.

Also, I always carry my phone, I don't carry my laptop most of the time. Pulling out your non-work laptop in a boring meeting is also something you don't do.

I pretty much never use a phone, and all my screen time is a computer.

How do you even mindlessly watch youtube vid after youtube vid on such a tiny screen?

I got the new iPhone SE (small screen) in 2020 so I limit my screen time. It has worked but not as well as I'd hoped for.. maybe I need to go back to my razr.

And yet, here you are... ;-)

most tools are multi-use. A smart phone is currently the best "convenient world remote control" you can have. It is also the best "distraction toy" you can have...

...self-discipline does not come easy, especially if supply and demand are strongly in favor of distraction...

https://www.thelightphone.com/

Does this works for you ? (Blocking)

I’ve tried it and even closed all my social media accounts. It sort of worked. For social medias… But it changed nothing, I found other addictions on the internet. It’s just … the smartphone. I blocked a little portion of the infinity that is the internet, but my lizard brain is smart enough to know that infinite content is still there, more easily accessible than letting my mind wandering.

I think I should speak about it to a psychiatrist but I’m not even sure it’s a topic they can handle nowadays.

Read Atomic Habits.

Infinite scrolling feels just like eating only pure sugar. It’s not quality food but really addictive. To fight this addiction physical blocking is one part of the solution. The other part is psychological and thus personal. What works for me and make me change might not me the same for you. That is why reading a book like Atomic Habits might help, but maybe you’ll need a few others to understand what needs to be changed to fight this. For me, one day I tried to remember what content I saw and what I got from spending tens of ours scrolling. The answer was nothing. I learned nothing and got nothing from it. Just like eating pure sugar all evening vs going out a bit walking and feeling refreshed or biking or whatever. I don’t want to be filled with empty stuff anymore. I don’t want socials to steal hours of sleep anymore. I don’t want to have the feeling that I’m giving McDonald’s every day to my brain. I found the ratio to feel satisfied is more like 10-5% rather than 80% of my free time on it. I deleted every single social app and I never ever missed it. Because they provide really nothing for my life and I have so much better to do around me or with other sources of content. That’s just me

> The answer was nothing. I learned nothing and got nothing from it.

I actually now have the inverse issue : now that I blocked "pure sugar content", I consume a lot of more interesting content. Like, HN is interesting to read, I have only subscriptions I like on YT and I feel like they make me learn. I still watch/read a lot of shit but I've also found a lot of gems I'm glad I found.

I'll read Atomics Habits since a lot of people recommended it to me.

Then it’s a matter of equilibrium I guess. Even if you love biking it’s harder to do it safely at night. So we « naturally » wait for sunlight. When things we love are accessible at all times and this barrier is removed the equilibrium have to be imposed maybe by introducing other thing like, maybe, more social interactions, talking to people etc. Whatever fits in the cycle to maintain an equilibrium.

I've not managed it completely yet but something that decimated (oo, literal usage) my social usage was to get rid of all the apps

The mobile web interface equivalents are usually decent enough to sate the addiction but the quirks and oddnesses that try to push you to the apps will stop you falling into doom scrolling

Also of course when you're up against an algorithm, get rid of the data. All the page likes, groups, friend-of-a-friends, etc you don't need - unlike. Or go nuclear and create a new account

Facebook for example has no content that keeps me coming back on my new account -- it even says that I need to add more friends to get more content, nothing at all on the home feed. I gave it up by accident :)

Thats a good point, up until now I've assumed this is an issue of willpower. But the app is a consumer too, if I can cutoff its food supply, it'll be much weaker.

My /etc/hosts file on the machine I work on all day blocks 68k hosts 24/7. No social media sites at all except Twitter. No ads.

Meanwhile, the Leechblock browser add-on stops me from using the few things I do otherwise (bits of Reddit, HN) allow between 09:00 and 17:00 which is not perfect but it's a start. Except ... I disable it a lot :(

would you share the hosts file by any chance? 68k seems better than what I have

it's probably something like this: https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts

Not OP but I can recommend those also for blocking social networks: https://github.com/jmdugan/blocklists/tree/master/corporatio...

> Except ... I disable it a lot :(

Not sure if you know, but there are advanced options to put various roadblocks in your way, such as disabling access to the options menu, or disabling access to the add-ons menu entirely.

What's the performance impact of such a large hosts file ?

You gain performance by blocking thousands of sockets opened, data transferred and processed.

Host lookup should be O(1) and entirely in memory, so I see zero issue perf. wise to begin with.

This could seriously be a good commercial product!

Hey, don't beat me to the punch! I thought about it right after posting too, that might have to be my next side project.

Yea I'd buy this

Let us know when we can preorder or subscribe for updates :)

+1 on buying this, time for a Kickstarter!

If you're serious about this, go through Crowd Supply rather than Kickstarter or IGG.

They take a larger cut but are much more hands on with the marketing, and this kind of project would be right up their alley.

Couldn't recommend them more after my own experience with them as a 21 year old fresh grad.

I was gonna say drop your twitter, then the irony hit me

same, i want to get notified when released

I would buy this.

I can see parents wanting to use it.

I would invest in this

I’m all for tangible, tactical solutions to problems that are currently enabled by software. For example, a phone tells the time, but it’s not always as straight forward as looking at a clock.

If only one could buy a clock, or watch.

This exists as a commercial product (e.g. Freedom App), but you can just as easily add buttons and switches to a Home Assistant setup that does the same thing.

While it's not exactly the same, there's an app called "Self Control" on macOS that blocks selected websites for chosen amount of time, and after it is engaged it is virtually impossible for you to disable the block until the timer runs out. I use it a lot.

[0] https://selfcontrolapp.com

That's awesome. I have an extra zigbee scene button, maybe that's what I should use it for. To block HN when I ought to be working.

The Freedom app has similar options where you can disable turning it off during a session or even disable Task Manager / Activity Monitor while it's active too.

https://freedom.to/

Anything that pisses me off works. Usually that's fully logging out of an app in a browser and not using any mobile apps.

I eventually found the pricing section...the green bit at the bottom, after 'try for free', behind 'freedom premium'. Thanks to my off button (and several comments herein), i now so much more appreciate how my off button is free. As in cost to use, and availability.

How do you stop yourself from just grabbing your phone and 5G?

The DNS server is set in my phone as well (still works over data). But even if it wasn't, I live in a third-world country that still has crude data caps (the United States) so consuming video would probably quickly approach it.

How are you setting DNS in your phone?

Typical DNS-level blocking software like pihole also functions as a DHCP server, allowing all devices on the network to share the DNS settings with no additional configuration necessary.

WiFi settings or DNS over HTTPS settings on Android 9. (I had to forget my network and reconnect with static instead of DHCP to manually set a DNS IP)

Nothing to do with age, I'm afraid - I'm over 40, and far more scattered and subject to the lure of the endless internet than when I was 20. In my personal situation, my best hope is that it is mommy brain, and that I'll outgrow it as my kid gets further from infancy.

I'm a couple of years short of 40 and feel the same. But these infinite feeds simply didn't exist, or at least weren't nearly as prevalent and well tuned to hijack human psychology, when we were 20.

I remember downloading and picking over the content of newsgroups in my mid-late teens and before that endlessly rolling through different TV stations.

My mind has always craved the distraction of the infinite scroll, it's just modern social media has perfected it.

That's true. To really waste time on the internet, you had to go Googling or hit Slashdot.

Couldn't you just disconnect from wi-fi on your phone and access everything via cellular?

The DNS server is set in my phone as well. But even if it wasn't, I live in a third-world country that still has crude data caps (the United States) so consuming video would probably quickly approach it.

I keep setting things like this up (Current: Pi-hole) but my problem is I break through it virtually instantly because I'm the one that set it up (Current bypass: Log in to pihole, disable)

Anyone know of a way that could thwart someone who's ~20 years in to computing? Doesn't have to be clever, just needs to be enough of a road block to not be worth the effort bypassing. If there's an exploit past the roadblock I'll find it haha

"Just be more disciplined", etc: I know but it turns out we're fighting ADHD here, working on that front separately

I had a scheduled task to turn of my desk top at 21:50. then multiple tasks but they were subject to the whim of just disablin them. Turns out if it's a random moment between 21:30~22:30, I dont get the urge to disable it. but then it has to non nullable when it happens.

SelfControl for Mac works well.

Otherwise, the block is sometimes just enough to make you second-guess your browsing habit. There's only a uBlock rule between me and reddit, and no limits on my iPad, but the extra effort is a reminder that I don't want to visit that website.

I used to scoff at things like Windscribe's ROBERT which does similar things for social sites, clickbait, gambling sites, porn etc...

Thinking it's more like a child blocker. But I've had battles with addiction and issues myself with keeping focused. Being able to have some kind of actual switch for what I can access often acts as a mental toggle. It changes my mode so to speak and I end up getting more done.

There's tons of cool free filters or blockers etc but I love your method. A physical button could be great for that mental switch aspect I was talking about.

That was going to be my question, don't you just distract yourself more instead with other, non digital, things?

Sorry mate. Missed this. My ability to get distracted with physical things have a limit. I'll tidy up, do some chores, then once I've expended that I'll get on with whatever I need to focus on.

Oh you evil genius. I’m stealing this idea.

Please do! I use AdGuard Home [0] and the built-in mechanism for "blocked services".

[0]: https://github.com/AdguardTeam/AdGuardHome

It isn't the push-button setup that you've built, but PiHole is a decent option for this purpose as well.

Occasionally I add social media sites (including HN) to the block list.

It's very easy to bypass when I really want/need to, but it does cut down the more unconscious "CMD + T - news/redd/face - enter" moments that happen when I'm bored.

Prevents the occasional unnecessary mindless scroll by creating a couple extra steps.

That's exactly right - It's always good to put roadblocks and increase resistance to bad habits, and take away roadblocks and decrease resistance to good habits. It works better for me than cold turkey.

> I'm still young so maybe my mind hasn't matured enough to where I can combat this well.

I'm not sure this changes as you age, it certainly hasn't for me. :(

About to turn 34 and still with the same poor mental focusing of 14 year old me :/

I'm 40, so when I was a teenager the internet did not have so much different distractions. My mind was great at focusing. I'd read books, cover to cover, and tune out everything else. I'd sit hours and hours straight and make websites for IE4. today I struggle to read a chapter in a book without getting distracted. It's pretty disheartening to notice. I'm much better at other things, but I wish I could still read like I used to. I think the worst ones for me right now are YouTube and hacker news. I'll have a look at the procrastination settings here, but for some &£@£# reason my phone won't uninstall YouTube.

> I think the worst ones for me right now are YouTube and hacker news.

Same thing.

If anything, any strategy I tried just made me replace awful content with more quality content.

But you can still be addicted to "good" content. And it’s harder to block because the FOMO is harder with sites like HN and interesting YouTube content.

I have something similar except that it's permanent and only in software (although I love the idea of a red button). I use NextDNS with a huge list of blocked websites. I set NextDNS as my dns server on windows and android so they're blocked on my laptop and phone.

To use one, I have to go to next dns and enable it, then when I'm finished I disable it again. I find this is mostly enough to make my usage mindful.

What stops you from just changing your DNS server?

That's a separate button

Only available on the Pro++ version.

My guess is that changing the DNS server is work - enough work that your brain can say "oh wait I kinda didn't actually want to go to that time-wasting site, did I?" and find something less soul-sucking to do. Maybe some kind of work you're glad to do, maybe some kind of amusement that leaves you feeling better than getting lost in an infinite scroll of Content.

I suppose one could just block port 53 outbound, forcing you to use the local DNS server

What do you use for the button?

A small push button attached to a Raspberry Pi. It runs a bash script that sends the network request to my AdGuard Home server, adding a list of domains to the blocklist. After two hours, it undoes the changes.

I usually review the DNS requests in the two hours after, to look for other time-suckers, and have since added every single non-productivity-related website to the blocklist. Apparently I compulsively check the weather dozens of times whenever I can't access my normal procrastination sites.

Do you have more info about the button and how that works? I’d love to read about it.

I’ve built a simple slot machine and loaded it with a raspberry pi. Now I’m building some rudimentary slot software for it, but I also need to wire up the buttons to the GPIO pins.

Here's one guide I found: https://raspberrypihq.com/use-a-push-button-with-raspberry-p...

A raspberry pi just for a button??

If it was sitting in drawer not doing anything and now it is doing this, then it's still better than being in the drawer.

Plus, what else that is small form factor and can execute ssh scripts when triggered by a smashable button are there?

Reminds me of this Dash buttons Amazon was pushing a while back.

I've seen some people have actually repurposed those useless things to something actually useful. I never did stop to read up on how/what they did to repurpose, just filed it away as one of those things that could/might be interesting to look into when my long list of other interesting things gets low.

I leave the pi on in the drawer to control/use IKEA tradfri buttons via their gateway.

A giant plush enter key allows for smashing as needed.

https://flyingtiger.com/products/enter-key-3015609

This article shows how to modify a red industrial button to add USB.

https://bikerglen.com/blog/usb-big-red-button/

What would be cool is to flip it. Press the button to get a few minutes of browsing allowed. Then, make the button deliver an electric shock upon being pressed. I bet you'd soon stop pressing it

This is awesome. I use the "self control" app for Mac OS X, which is pretty effective, but obviously doesn't stop me using my phone.

Would be interested to learn more about this approach.

I am incredulous whenever I see these solutions. Can’t you trivially change your DNS server?

How do you implement this? I am a relatively new programmer and would love to to implement this on my own phone/ workspace

It's essentially just an AdGuard Home installation on my VPS, which is a DNS server that all of my devices use as the DNS server. I then added all the blocked URLs and blocked them all in the web interface, and viewed the network request that it made in the browser console. Then, I unblocked them. For each one of these saved network requests, I saved the corresponding "copy as CURL" command. When the button is pressed, the "blocked" command is called; after waiting 7200 seconds, the "unblock" command is called. This just calls the server to not resolve those URLs.

Would you mind kindly linking to or detailing how someone might set up such a setup?

Essentially just an AdGuard Home installation on my VPS. I then added all the URLs and blocked them all in the web interface, and sniffed the network request in the browser console. Then, I unblocked them. For each one of these, I saved the corresponding "copy as CURL" command. When the button is pressed, the "blocked" command is called; after waiting 7200 seconds, the "unblock" command is called.

I'd buy it

This is like saying "I cured my alcoholism by throwing all the liquor out of my house". The problem isn't the availability of the stimulus, it's the lack of control over your desire for it.

You can't cure a need for distraction by blocking domains. There isn't a cure. You have to learn to live with it, like alcoholism.

The good news is that major life events tend to be great for breaking the distraction seeking pattern. At some point you'll get married or have kids or change careers, etc. And then your life will be so different that looking back on a dns kill switch button will seem silly.

Until then, just keep pushing the button I guess. We all have to make it through somehow

This is colossally bad advice when literally a fundamental part of the playbook to defeating alcoholism is getting it out of the house... Getting it out of the house and blocking domains are extremely valid tactics for getting over an addiction.

The “alcoholism is an incurable disease” trope came from a religious organization peddling snake oil. Not the best foundation to build your argument on. Studies indicate that many people are cured of their alcoholism and addiction. Generally through “aging out”. Additionally, just like alcoholism, the problem is the result not the cause. Alcoholics who don’t drink also don’t run over kids. People who don’t endlessly scroll don’t waste 5 hours a day. It doesn’t matter how it’s achieved

Had kids. Changed careers. Moved 2000 miles. Stopped running. No cell phone but infinite scroll isn't limited to the handheld devices.

Still have a 68k line /etc/hosts from the Steven Black list.

Most alcoholics do need to keep all the liquor out of their homes. This is a necessary but insufficient condition for many of their recoveries.

> The problem isn't the availability of the stimulus, it's the lack of control over your desire for it

…

> pushing the button

It’s possible you just didn’t recognize the way they’re exercising control over their desire for it. If you’re framing it in terms of alcoholism—speaking from experience here—you don’t come up with convenient ways to get away with not drinking, just convenient ways to go right on drinking even when you know you shouldn’t and wish you wouldn’t.

This is terrible advice for people with addiction. No mental health doctor would agree with you.

Having a kid made my internet addiction 100% worse. When your free time only comes in brief, unpredictable snatches, and your smartphone is right there in your pocket and can be held while rocking a baby who can't quite sleep, guess what happens...

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