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Comment by pastacacioepepe | Hacker News Reader

Totally agree but it's too late, it already happened. It took only about 4 days of intense propaganda, for people to start asking for racial sanctions. People started demonizing Dostoevsky. Russians have lost their jobs all over the world for not publicly taking a stance against their own people. Next step is going to be the burning of russian books. Trust me, at this rate, it will come soon.

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"It is almost superfluous to remark that a democratic Government always shows worst where other Governments generally show best, on its outside; that unreasonable people are much more noisy than the reasonable; that the froth and scum are the part of a violently fermenting liquid that meets the eyes, but are not its body and substance."

— John Stuart Mill, The Contest in America, 1861

I've not seen any of this. But then I avoid Twitter and other social media. In a conflict with global attention like this one there will always be a minority of extreme views (propaganda and genuine). Western leaders are not blaming the Russian people, although obviously there is an affect on them. Same with the mainstream media.

The hatred of a very small minority amplified by social media is the source of opinion like this.

It's not the majority of the people luckily, although most have been in a state of propaganda shock for a few days and are recovering now. The ones proposing the worst things are politicians and the state affiliated media in concertation, which when is war time we just found out is 100% of the "independent" western media.

Which politicians are proposing the worst things, and which media are backing them up? This sounds like a too-broad generalisation. I think the most extreme calls have often come from citizens, and haven’t been taken up by those in authority.

There's nothing concrete whatsoever in your comment. It just reads like generic anti-Western rant. Can you perhaps turn it into a specific anti-Western rant and give examples?

If you think it’s upsetting that people are being called cowards or complicit for not protesting, which I agree is unfair, wait until you find out what the propaganda being used to justify the war is saying about Ukrainians.

I've seen a lot of russian propaganda and none of it takes the racial angle on Ukrainians. Russian consider Ukrainians part of their culture so it wouldn't make much sense. Any source?

Russia saying Ukrainian culture is the same as Russian culture could be considered racist. It's similar to claims that African Americans don't have a unique culture. The result is people justifying suppression of that culture because it "doesn't exist" independently.

Are there really semi-common claims that African Americans don't have a unique culture?

Opinion: There is no 'White culture' - https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/opinions/american-culture-and...

White culture steals because it has no soul of its own. White people are fleeing Whiteness because they do not have a way to exist apart from their history of oppression. - https://www.salon.com/2013/04/25/how_can_white_americans_be_...

I don't know about modern claims, I was more talking about historical claims, where "culture" was associated with whiteness and things that were considered black were lesser and therefore not worth preserving. Black culture wasn't "American" even thought it was in America. If you claim Ukrainian culture is Russian culture even thought Ukrainians don't agree, and then use that to justify an invasion, it sure seems racist to me.

This is why, when PewDiePie infuriated his attackers by saying "I'm not White, I'm Swedish", he was actually going deeper into their "Theory" than they were.

No one's taking a "racial angle" against Russians. There's are plenty of Russian speakers and ethnic Russians outside of Russia, and nothing whatsoever is directed at them. This is about the country of Russia and its citizens (regardless if ethnicity), so whatever beef you might have with how they're treated, there's no "racial" or "ethnic" angle.

You know one does not choose citizenship, right?

I'm currently spending some time and money helping friends that happen to be Russian citizens despite not having been in Russia for years (I'm also going to spend time and money trying to help unknown Ukrainians).

Let's not spread the same hatred in Europe than was done in the Middle East.

edit: fixed the emotional phrasing

> You know one does not choose citizenship, right?

But one does choose whether to condemn the war of aggression their country is waging. 99% of all the supposed "racial sanctions" "Russians losing their jobs all over the world" and so on are about pressing well-known Russian citizens in the public sphere to either condemn the war of aggression waged in their name or fuck off. It's harsh but I fail to see how it's unfair.

Please be honest and recognize that discrimination on the basis of Citizenship is exactly the same as racial discrimination. The same way as nobody chooses their "race", nobody chooses the country they are born into.

> There's are plenty of Russian speakers and ethnic Russians outside of Russia

Yes and across the west there have been several movements to censor the voices of Russians in every field, from sport to art. In Italy we even attempted to censor an academic course on Dostoyevsky. Luckily after many complaints from all over the country the decision was reverted. But this is the current political sentiment, you can't just ignore it.

>Please be honest and recognize that discrimination on the basis of Citizenship is exactly the same as racial discrimination.

It's nothing of the kind, and furthermore those Russian citizens who condemn this criminal war of aggression in no uncertain terms are going to be just fine.

>censor the voices of Russians in every field, from sport to art.

If your country is currently murdering civilians and committing genocide in an unprovoked war of aggression, you don't get to participate in sporting events under your country's flag. This is not about censoring you, it's about condemning your country. (Which, by the way, if you don't condemn yourself, then you yourself are complicit, particularly if you live outside of Russia).

Sure they do. They call Ukrainians “hohli”. Here is a gross example: https://romali83.livejournal.com/29759.html

The stereotype is that they are lazy and primitive.

Tell me of a single country in the world where a part of it does not consider the other lazy and primitive. We have the same exact phenomenon in Italy, the north thinks the south is lazy and primitive. That's ugly indeed and I don't support it, but if you say Russians are racist for this reason than pretty much every country on the planet is culpable of some form of racism.

By 'racial' sanctions, you mean sanctions aimed at Russian citizens? There's nothing 'racial' about that.

"and then for no reason at all putin invaded ukraine"

The response has been absurdly hostile to the Russian people. The West's foreign policy is simple "escalate". Stay tuned for your daily programming.

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