iMac G4 to M1 conversion process | Hacker News Reader

iMac G4 to M1 conversion process

forums.macrumors.com

387 pointsbitigchi99 comments

I love this! The G4 Mac is by far my favourite Apple design ever, its such a shame it was such as short lived design aesthetic.

My wish is that as Apple seems to be moving its iMac (and soon MacBook I believe) range back towards a more "fun" look reminiscent of the original iMac period they could resurrect this design.

I would love a touch screen iMac or Apple Monitor that used this design, its perfect for folding forward into a position for touch interaction and sketching.

This era of design where there was still some "whimsy" is some of my favorite Apple work too. The austere modern era where everything is a slab of glass fronted metal has lost so much of the joy that was found in their earlier computers.

If you want a touch screen computer that used this design optimized for sketching, Microsoft took it to the logical conclusion with the Surface Studio:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m5...

This is much better for sketching, as can reach a much flatter angle than the G4 iMac ever could. It also holds its angle quite a bit more securely (I've used both). While I'm not a massive Windows user, the physical aspects of the Surface Studio are pretty nice and much more interesting to me than the latest iMacs.

> The austere modern era where everything is a slab of glass fronted metal has lost so much of the joy that was found in their earlier computers.

In many ways I think it's a pity that Apple decided to bring its "Pro" aesthetic to the standard/consumer range, there has been so little to diffiraciate the two ranges. Having the two distinct ranges was more fun.

With what they have done with the M1 iMacs and the rumours of a rebooted MacBook (Air?) using the aesthetic of that iteration (colourful aluminium enclosures and white bezels) they seem to have decided to do just that and separate the ranges visually - just as they have done with the iPhone ranges now. For the first time in years last years Mac product announcements have actually interested me, looking forward to see what they are showing tomorrow.

> This is much better for sketching, as can reach a much flatter angle than the G4 iMac ever could.

Quite right, the ergonomics of the exact G4 aren't quite right for what I'm describing, however they could serve as the design inspiration for something amazing.

(I'm also now on eBay looking for G4s...)

It seems the computing field had exhausted the usual marketing venues so resorted into maxing out the pro/scientific angle (you almost get a free biology/optics class on an iphone keynote chapter about lenses).

Maybe the chill aspect is due for a comeback now.

> In many ways I think it's a pity that Apple decided to bring its "Pro" aesthetic to the standard/consumer range, there has been so little to diffiraciate the two ranges.

I think the idea behind this to make their computers as recyclable as possible. It was mentioned at least once in a product intro when discussing the machining process.

I also miss fun designs, but I think the choice to reduce plastic use is the “right” one.

If sustainably was such a concern then why not have user replaceable batteries and serviceable laptops, at the cost of a few mm here and there?

True. Fortunately they've improved repairability a bit in the M1 Macbook Pros, i.e. the battery is no longer glued and has pull tabs.

https://www.ifixit.com/News/54122/macbook-pro-2021-teardown

I would not blame design for the "slab of glass" state of computers/phones.

There two factors I see we endup with the current designs that are not related to desing at all: * Miniaturization and portability: Today, probably two thirds of the components needed for a computer fit into the M1 die. * Ergonomics: Because we are still humans, we need screens and input devices (touch or keyboard/mouse) that are bigger than the computer itself

Designers work around humans and technology to make the products joyful and compeling. I believe they did a good job, in general, given what computers became engineering-wise.

That Surface Studio almost mimics an old-school drafting table.

Oh man I’m so much lazier, I would just set the G4 on top of the mini and try to figure out how to send video to the G4s screen, give up, and just use a new monitor.

The 17” 1440x900 display would be an absolute dealbreaker for me personally, so I’d also have to figure a way how to fit a better display in.

Which would probably be trickier than everything else in this project, because where can you get a 17” 1440p IPS panel these days?

The arm that holds up the monitor is designed for a specific weight. It would be difficult to swap out the display.

New LED displays are much lighter, so you probably have lots of margin to just put in dead weight.

Most of these arms lack the strength to hold up the original screen anymore. Probably due to fatigue of the spring. I still have one and it's just enough to hold it up but every time I hit the table it flops down :'(

Mostly an issue for the 17" and up. The 15" screens seem to be okay with the arm spring.

You might be able to find a metalworking shop that could manufacture a new spring for you. If you’re willing to pay for it.

I'm willing to pay for it sure, but I'm very worried about actually replacing it.. The force on that thing makes me feel like I'm unleashing a dragon and I have a feeling this is why they used very special screws, to avoid people messing with it.

It's also the shortest-lived Mac design ever so I wonder if this had something to do with it.

Too bad though because it was very beautiful and it had form and function, unlike current iMacs which are not height-adjustable at all.

And if you don't get it exactly right, the mouse ball pops out, expands to a massive size and tries to flatten you.

Pro tip/life hack: bring a small sack of sand to match the weight, but be ready to run if you misjudge.

It's not hard to find 4K 17" panels as spare parts for laptops, but they're generally 16:9 rather than 16:10.

Lenovo is releasing 16:10 screen for their next generation laptops lines. So it is a matter of time till replacement screens for those to come up on ebay. I guess?

Add letterbox bars to the front glass then, job done.

Inch is diagonal so a 17” 16:9 would be to wide.

Unless I’m thinking wrong we’d need something at (sqrt(17)*(16^2+9^2)/(16^2+10^2))^2, which should put us at 15.23”, I know 15,4” exists so that might be doable depending on how much room there is to spare, 5mm is a bit but it could maybe work.

Sorry I did this wrong yesterday, wrote it late in bed and lost an exponent a long the way, should be 16,54”

With the following calculation, 1.6 is for 16/10 sqrt((1.617/sqrt(1.6^2+1))^2+((9/16)(1.6*17/sqrt(1.6^2+1)))^2)

It's not so bad. Especially if you spend most of your time in a terminal, as I often do. It's somewhat nostalgic, even. Ah, my first display, a 80x25 text mode DOS 5.0 terminal on a CRT...sigh

That does sound delightfully nostalgic. Sometimes when I use my iPad for SSH'ing in to things, I get that same sense. I don't need a dedicated SSH box that badly, and I wouldn't gut an iMac for the privilege when it can run SSH natively, but that would be a fun box to have.

I might be misremembering, but I feel like when LCDs became mainstream, they were ostensibly worse in resolution than CRTs. CRTs were commonly at 1024x768 for a while, but I remember running specially-selected ones at 1600x1200 or even higher (1860xsomething?). LCDs replaced my nice high res CRTs with 1024x768, and then I waited a decade for 3840x2160, which was definitely a step up.

I remember being ridiculously excited by my circa-2004 24" LCD. How could a screen be that big? 1920x1200 pixels? How can there be so many!? And now that is like a tiny garbage dumb LCD that you find in the storage closet and decide isn't worth the desk space.

(My favorite thing is the HDTV craze. You can still buy laptops with a 720p display these days, because "HD" is supposed to be a positive marketing term! But it's really 1995-era resolutions at 2022 prices!)

> they were ostensibly worse in resolution than CRTs

That fits my recollection too. I remember 1280x1024 being very common on 19-21" CRTs circa 2000.

My cheap 19 inch dell does 1600x1200. I sometimes run it at 1024x768 120hz and it's much clearer than my 240hz lcd

You can run them at 120hz with 0 input lag as well. I feel like we made a mistake phasing them out. There was even a wide screen trinitron which ran at 1080p 120hz, 20 years ago.

Some pro model CRTs were 1920 * 1280. I have a 21" Viewsonic in a closet that still works every time I try it, but wow is it heavy and bulky compared to what we're used to today.

Some of them came with 1680x1050 displays which are still respectable.

Honestly I have three of these things and they aren't great. Maybe for a side or "kitchen" computer. If Mac had a decent RDP protocol, that would be a great way to use them.

Same, I'm running a Samsung Neo G9 at 5120x1440 and I could still use more room. Total deal breaker, and almost silly considering it can power a much nicer screen.

1600p, 16:10 https://www.panelook.com/LP170WQ1-SPE1_LG%20Display_17.0_LCM...

The original hardware runs OpenBSD.

Is VNC (or another remote desktop) an option without all this surgery?

https://www.openbsd.org/macppc.html

You can install dualboot voidlinux and run pretty much anything ppc, so yes

Am I the only one sad to see the original machine gutted out? I get that these machines aren't particularly useful (I have one myself) but it really does seem a shame for it to be modified in this way.

You might be... I loved the old machines but making the shell usable again is even cooler to me. I'd love to see them update the display to something more modern and then it would be perfect.

No, you're not the only one. If it were busted, I could see it as a way of giving an old design new life, but this one appeared to be mostly operational. I have a 15" 1.25GHz iMac with a working arm in beautiful condition and it's going to stay stock. It suffices for viewing the security cameras, playing CDs and DVDs, the occasional Classic app and basic browsing tasks.

As long as there are enough of them preserved as-is, it doesn't bother me. Maybe the author has 2 (or more). In which case, right on.

These aren't exactly rare. I can accept this sort of stuff when it's done well. They should pass that MB on as a working spare, though.

Yeah, unfortunately the logic board can't be reused because he cut it apart to reuse the power button from it.. ( https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/imac-g4-to-m1-conversio... )

You can buy them very cheaply off eBay.

Yeah, I am pretty unhappy to see a perfectly functional classic machine like this not only gutted but having its original, functioning motherboard cut apart so he could use the power button from it. Now the old and increasingly-rare logic board cannot be used for a replacement for another system (I was reading the thread really hoping he gave away the logic board to someone who needed it).

These iMac G4s still run Linux, FreeBSD and OpenBSD (and of course OS X) very happily, and are very nice machines to run those OSes on (I run OpenBSD on one of mine, and OS X on another). Soon the "new" M1 hardware inside will be just as obsolete. Still, whatever, it's his computer to butcher I guess, and the overall stock appearance was retained well. I just don't personally like the destruction of somewhat rare, working hardware.

Amaaaazing. The iMac G4 is the single most aesthetically beautiful computer, ever.

I've still got a functional maxed-out one in the corner of my living room/studio. If the internals ever break, I'm doing this kind of mod in half a second.

I'd say the new iMac is better: https://www.apple.com/imac/

Doesn't have a CD drive, but at least for me, I've not used one in a decade.

You mean...that the new iMac is more aesthetically interesting / pleasing than the G4?

Jesus, I guess tastes vary hugely. The new iMac is the same bloody design it's been since the iMac G5, basically...not sure how it's 'impressive'? It's got colours? Other than that... o.o

The iMac G4 is a feat of design engineering and still an astonishingly beautiful sight that somehow manages to look insanely futuristic nearly 20 years after its initial release.

Feat of engineering, sure. But the look is "mid oughties white plastic" which is about as dated and vintage as the off-white 80s plastic enclosure of the Apple IIe was at that time

And oh god were the laptops ugly. They looked like a seat cushion!

You’re talking about the G3 iBooks, not the G4 ones, just FYI.

+1, and it wasn't just for show, the arm was more ergonomic than all iMacs since.

It's thin, and the screen is awesome, and it does massive things with not a lot of drama, and dear lord the SOUND it makes.

It's the same design if you want to overlook one dimension, but really, so long as you have more senses than just sight, it's changed a ton.

My personal favorite Mac (aesthetically) is the Quicksilver G4 PowerMac. The Blue G3 PowerMac is a close second because I'm a sucker for anything in blue.

I really enjoyed having the blue G3, but it's such a large machine compared to what I would keep on my desk today.

Action Retro on YT made a video about a Pi case that was based on the blue&white G3 tower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLh7c6KQAT4

I have to go Blue G3 (I even have one), the fact for the G4 they went grey and got rid of the huge lettering underneath the side plastic was a real disappointment. I guess it was too fun for a "professional" system...

Reminds me that Apple once had fresh designs.

I wish Apple would get brave and push out a radical new design.

From a design perspective, modern hardware leaves little room for imagination without excess/useless material. reducing components to a fraction of their size is the radical design which is leveraged to make a product as frictionless as possible on the consumer side

You say frictionless, I say dull as all fork.

I mean I agree however who is in the market for an art piece instead of a computer ? Who will buy this product which is more expensive and likely less functional and takes up more space

Little room for imagination? The iMacs that came after the G4 are not even height adjustable.

They also didn't just cut down on useless material. Power supplies are still large, but Apple has moved them out of the iMac in 2020.

The recent iMac redesign also makes it extremely awkward to connect external speakers using a cable, but the built-in speakers have received mixed reviews. Even that seems like a step back from the iMac G4.

Regarding the power supply I suspect that right now we are in transition just like when Apple was late on updating updating the design of the late intel notebooks. It seems like they know M1 was on the way and focused their efforts on that knowing that Intel was going away. If Intel was not going away my guess is that they would have resolved the later thermal/design issues of the laptops sooner.

Same goes for this power supply. We are probably moving towards even lower power consumer chips and while the current power supply is pretty small, just imagine a more power efficient base line M2/M3 chip + GaN based power supply. Maybe they could power the machine with a tiny cube shaped PSU or just have a usb-c connector coming out of the back.

The part about built-in speakers is interesting. How often would you be connecting/disconnecting them? Seems like the kind of thing you'd connect once and be done with it.

It's not that connecting speakers is hard with the new iMac (2021, sorry not 2020), but that having anything permanently plugged in will look silly:

https://9to5mac.com/2021/04/20/m1-imac-relocates-the-headpho...

I guess it's only meant for headphones in a pinch, and you are supposed to buy Bluetooth speakers/headphones anyway? But Apple also discontinued the big HomePod that would give the iMac some oomph.

(I often suspect that the new iMac is that primarily meant as cashier machine in clinics, boutiques etc. In that context the design is probably fantastic, but then what is the successor to the iMac G4 line? Maybe everyone just uses laptops for family computers?)

Ugh, that does look bad. I didn’t realize it was on the side. Reminds me of the mouse with the charging port on the bottom.

If I owned one of these and had external speakers, I’d consider getting a basic USB audio adapter and using that so it’s out of sight. Bonus: it keeps your headphone jack free for actual headphones.

i would argue height adjustment is a feature not a design and they particularly chose not to include that in their features. Also the power supplies are not huge post M1 nor were they particularly large before that. From a comparison standpoint it’s nothing like the disgusting brick and Velcro you get with most other notebooks.

I’m not pretending to be an apple defender however I am a believer of intentionality and consideration which gives them the right to design a specific way if they rationalize it.

I love this. I put an Intel Atom mini-ITX board in an old G4 cube about 13 years ago. For a time it gave my wife a modern-ish machine (though a Hackintosh) with a style that was relatively unique.

It sadly lives in our garage right now as we don't really need it. Occasionally I think about dusting it off and replacing the internals with a Mac Mini, just for fun.

Mini-ITX modding culture came a long way. Last I saw was someone revamping a Hot Wheels PC from the 90's with modern parts [2].

[1] https://www.mini-itx.com/news/archive.asp

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLGfeiMdi1Q

I remember how damned amazing the display on the iLamp was. At the time, if you weren't directly in front of an LCD display, everything got dim and you could practically read the G4 display from the side. Kids today don't have any idea how bad those early generation LCD displays.

A bit off topic but the PowerMac translucent towers were beautiful. I wish apple brought those back albeit in a smaller form factor. It wouldn't hurt to see the Mac Pro in such a casing.

This reminds me of the Cube Hackintosh conversions....I just wish that design worked out better in the court of public (consumer) opinion....

I feel the same way about the 2013 Mac Pro, which I purchased refurbished in early 2017 and used as my daily driver until January when I switched to a Ryzen 3900X build. The 2013 Mac Pro has a wonderful design, but it's a shame Apple never upgraded it, though it would be sweet if Apple brought back this form factor since Apple's ARM chips solved the thermal challenges that made it difficult for Apple to upgrade the cylindrical Mac Pro.

Wonder if it was the Pro or lessons learned from it that instigated building their own Mac chips.

“Intel can’t or won’t make the chips we need to make the designs we want, so we’re going to have to do it ourselves.”

Hah. I thought I was the only silly person in 2017 purchasing an overpriced and not-so-powerful-at-the-time machine :) I got mine from eBay and it is still my daily driver!

Mind you, just wrote this about a week ago on how I keep it current: https://jmmv.dev/2022/03/windows-10-mac-pro-2013.html

I wish I could pay people to do this insane work for me. I’d never have the patience to do all this, but I’d love to have a build like this.

I'm not sure if they're still active, but there's been a couple group doing something similar for thinkpads (lcdfans/cnmod, xueyao) retrofitting new Motherboards and other components into older chassis. You could maybe try a group like that as a one off.

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/jrj949/x2100_from...

The lamp iMac design was really so nice compared to any iMac made before or after since it made adjusting the screen so easy. This really highlights a problem with the iMacs, however: they use gorgeous screens but the displays have a useful life 5-10 years longer than the CPU. I really wish there was something like an e-waste law to encourage manufacturers to either make them upgradeable or recyclable.

Or a Microsoft like studio design but with the box replaceable as a macmini …

Extra credit:

Use ML (and some servos and counterweights) to make it do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCrdla_BljQ

The youtube video shows the "The Dancing iMac G4 Ad"

Yup.

It’s a Pixar animation, like the classic “Luxo Lamp” animation.

It really is remarkable how small the logic board on those new M1 minis is. It'll be interesting to see what the rumoured new smaller mac mini looks like.

This is so cool! I wanted to do something similar with the G4 cube, but the Mac mini is slightly too big. Hope the next version is smaller.

I was surprised Apple didn't sell a 20th Anniversary Cube. It would have closed the loop on what the Cube started. Maybe they'll do it on the 25th anniversary, in a couple years?

The guts of the M1 mini are significantly smaller than the case. There was a video where someone made a smaller case recently that shows just how much you can shrink it.

https://youtu.be/pQWGFKhBQwU

I mean, it's basically a phone minus some of the cell chips and the display.

Maybe they can do a handheld Mac Micro or Mac Nano.

Thank you! Will give it a try then!

I'd love to see an M1 put inside a 12" Macbook, I know it was controversial but I always loved that form factor.

The Lamp was great but nothing can beat the Cube. Still using mine with a Sonnet and SSD upgrade for plain text work.

Great. Being a software guy in my life all these are overwhelming I think. Still very much appreciated as the author said it is sad to give this up as such a beauty.

Would the square glass on easier without the screen I wonder.

Random aside, does anyone know if the M1 (well, M series chips) are likely to migrate to the iPhones? I'm upgrading soon, but if the 14 is going to have an M-series chip, I may hold off.

Not likely.

I was onboard until he spliced the AC connector to power two internal AC connections. Huuge electrical fire risk, especially with electrical tape!

Cool project. Would love to see this done for NeXTcube or NeXTstation with their original keyboard and mouse.

You would have to add in the "clunk" the optical drive made.

Better find a broken cube rather than tearing apart a working one, or you'd be reviled by retro fans, eBay buyers, and museums.

I'd love to see this brought into a cafe. I wonder how long an M1 Mac Mini runs on a 10000mah battery?

I want one. So much more fun than the mini in the box form factor.

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