Hacker News Reader

Comment by bherms | Hacker News Reader

Psilocybin use definitely changed me for the better. The first time I did it was one of the most eye-opening and impacting experiences in my life. Since my first trip, I've tried to work it into my life at least 1-2 times a year. Every time I feel like I learn something new and/or come out a better person by seeing certain aspects of life in a new light. It's something you only want to try in controlled environments when your head is in the proper place (no hidden depression or anything lurking in the back of your mind), but when done right, with the right people, it can be an amazing experience and I highly recommend to everyone with the proper mindset.

View on HN

The emphasis is on: done right, with the right people.

There is a reason why drugs are prohibited in many countries. People don't use them "correctly" and can become messed up pretty heavily.

I took shrooms when I was 18. After an initial phase of a lot of hardly controllable laughter, I experienced the strongest fear that I ever had in my life. Basically, the fear to remain stuck on this trip - nothing unusual by the way, as I figured out later by reading reports from other people. The main fear for me was to be stuck in this situation where your brain isn't filtering anything anymore. I was literally sitting around UNABLE to do anything. I mean, somehow I knew how to do a more complicated thing (like building another joint), but somehow I was incapable of performing the necessary steps. It was frightening, especially since there was no supervisor who could lead me out of this spiral of fear. The fear lasted only for 2 hours or so, then the trip was over as I fell asleep.

But I had panic attacks for another 6 months. Also a very typical time frame for many people. No fun. Stressful places, loud dogs, everything noise sort of made me feel anxious. On the other hand, it was a time where I thought about myself A LOT. I mean, really a lot. After 6 months, I somehow emerged with new self-confidence which grew a lot over time way beyond the self-confidence I had before (which could also be just a side-effect of getting older, I don't know).

So, now I wouldn't like to miss that experience. I don't know how it changed me, but I certainly do recommend that people should never try hallucinogenic drugs without supervision - people who can help you mentally to escape states of fear.

Ahh yes, I forgot to mention the importance of an experienced "babysitter" for your first trip or three, until you're confident and fully comprehend where your mind will be going for the ensuing 3-6 hours.

>There is a reason why drugs are prohibited in many countries. People don't use them "correctly" and can become messed up pretty heavily.

There's another reason they're prohibited as well - users tend to think a lot about interpersonal relations, society, power structures, etc.

Sorry to hear about your panic attacks, I've gone through the same thing as well, but likely a decade after I last took drugs of any kind. They're not fun. I sometimes wonder if maybe I had smoked a bit during my stressful times that I would have been able to put things in better perspective without having to resort to real mind altering drugs from the pharmacist. Who knows...

> There's another reason they're prohibited as well - users tend to think a lot about interpersonal relations, society, power structures, etc.

Yes, drugs are prohibited because the government is afraid that it will be brought down by junkies thinking too much about power structures.

Obviously not, but the original Controlled Substances Act, the beginning of our modern War on Drugs, can be reasonably inferred as direct response to the anti-war movement.

That Act is only in effect in the US, though, while drugs are forbidden in many countries.

That doesn't mean it wasn't a contributing factor. Also, the US foreign policy has exported our nation's legislative opinion of drugs for decades.

One of the (possibly) profound effects of psychedelic experiences is the dissolution of boundaries-- a heightening of the dissociative pattern matching behavior that we call human cognition to the point that everything seems relevant to everything and nothing is really different from anything else.

To an extent this is trivially true, and it certainly inspires a lot of not-too-insightful discussion about how we're all stars, man, but it can also point out the important but non-obvious fact that your neighbor is a person just like you are, having exactly the same experience of consciousness that you are, and so is the President, and so is that bum on the street, and so is that person in the country across the river that you're supposed to hate. She's just like you, and you can't hate yourself. So it shouldn't be surprising (for this reason among others) that people who smoke a lot of weed find the idea of war to be a waste of time when, really, we could all just be relaxing with some good friends, music and food.

Is it really that hard to imagine that this idea, whether brought on by drugs, education, or meditation, is threatening to the few in power who use these artificial divisions to control the many?

Yes, definitely go through your first trip with a knowledgeable supervisor. Someone who can guide you and talk you out if you seem to be heading into a bad trip. One can always be talked out of a bad trip.

For what it's worth, here are the best practices for using these substances:

http://entheoguide.net/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.psychedelicpsychotherapy.com/content.php?122-jour...

In addition, here are some guides for dealing with difficult experiences:

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/faqs/psychedelic_crisis_...

http://vimeo.com/10883376

http://www.maps.org/videos/source4/video9.html

http://vimeo.com/16702478

And of course all the information on Erowid for each substance is key. Psilocybin isn't especially dangerous, but as you said if you do it wrong you can definitely end up with anxiety/depression that lasts a year or two.

> There is a reason why drugs are prohibited in many countries. People don't use them "correctly" and can become messed up pretty heavily.

Your ignorance of history is affecting your understanding of these circumstances.

Could you elaborate on that for the rest of us? I'd like to hear what you have to say.

There is a reason why drugs are prohibited in many countries.

I used to think that all educated adults had read the same books about history I had, but I was surprised when I was in law school that my professor of criminal law and criminal procedure had never heard about why drug laws in east Asia and southeast Asia are very harsh. The painful experience of China after defeat in the Opium Wars means that several countries of Asia view promotion of drug use among their populace as an instrument of foreign colonialist oppression. The zero-tolerance policies (including the death penalty for possession of quite small amounts of prohibited drugs) in those countries flow directly from a historical experience in which a drugged population became easier rather than harder to oppress. On historical grounds, and on observation of the Grass Roots Party (a political party in my state supporting legalization of marijuana), I'm not at all sure that easier access to drugs makes a populace happier or more free.

I disagree. Most drug laws have little basis in any kind of rational motivation, in the East or West. Though I know about the historical events you're referring to, I don't think they're as connected as you imply.

Is that your perception, or do the people around you, able to give an unbiased opinion concur?

Afterall I'm not entirely convinced that my heartfelt conviction of alchohol's beneficial effects on my singing are universally shared.

If I feel like my life has changed for the better, I don't have to validate it with other people. It's my life, not theirs.

Of course, and I wasn't attempting to be antagonistic. I was merely pointing out that when you say you feel it "changed me for the better" in your original post, that could be for one of two reasons. I was simply curious as to whether you could determine whicgh reason(s) applied in your case.

This is where I find this train of thought becomes so unenlightened and bogs down in hedonism. There is no such thing as "your life" seperate or distinct from the lives of other people and certainly not something over which you can claim as a possession.

I definitely noticed myself becoming more open (as mentioned in the article), much more laid back and less neurotic (though the article mentioned this not being affected), and just a calmer, more rational, loving person in general. I also noticed a deeper appreciation of nature and art that stemmed from experiences while on hallucinogens. I also like to think I've grown in creativity, but that may be the result of other experiences and goals in my life. As a previous commenter mentioned, the drugs help you start to explore the ideas of how everything is related, how people all have the same experiences of consciousness, etc and you begin to appreciate how tied together our world and ecosystem is. Those are just a few things I've noticed on my part. I really believe more people thinking in this manner would be highly beneficial to humankind, though I'm biased :)

(no hidden depression or anything lurking in the back of your mind)

Which, by definition, could be rather hard to know about in advance :-(

That's why you should try meditation a go before you even think of psychedelics imho. Try to get what your subconscious mind is trying to tell you. There is a simple test for that: is there something you don't want to think about?

Certainly true, but I feel like you always know when you have some issues lurking in the back of your mind. I once did some hallucinogens after going through a breakup and a small bout of loneliness in which I wasn't entirely happy with myself. Needless to say, it wasn't a fun trip at all. I tried to convince myself I was fine and in a good place, but with any real introspection, I should have known I wasn't in the right mindset going into it.

I aslo had experiences which made me a much more open and eclectic person. I was about 23 years old and found the experiences to be overwhelmingly positive. At the time (70's) the counter culture was well underway and there were many fellow travellers who would advise on the importance of the setting and also (sounds kinda corny now) that one should make the whole thing sacred and not treat it as just a buzz. Also there were many apocriphal stories of people who had gone on trips and hadn't come back.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com