On-Chip Batteries for Dust-Sized Computers | Hacker News Reader

On-Chip Batteries for Dust-Sized Computers

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

61 pointslnyan15 comments

I'm as excited as the next HNer about technology and the future, but a couple things just irk me about this

> "Advances in microelectronics have enabled the use of miniaturized computers for autonomous intelligence at the size of a dust particle..."

Calling it "intelligence" is just tiring at this point...

Then

"> While these lab-level demonstrations show the future of ubiquitous computing, dust-sized computers will only become a new class of computing platforms if they are available anywhere anytime, relying on energy-autonomous operation."

It's the "anywhere" that bothers me... do we really want a virtually infinite number of electronic devices around us? How do we dispose of these things? Recycle? Make them biodegradable? And then you throw batteries into the mix? Am I supposed to be breathing in Zinc and Germanium in 20 years?

Clogging my lungs is the least of my concerns.

This is a very achievable grey goo. I almost think we should have a minimum size of microprocessor, chip, robot, computer at 1 square centimeter. Not allowed to go under that.

Something we can keep out by shutting a door, at the very least.

But of course that's not the way it's going to go... If something is possible, someone's gonna do it.

> do we really want a virtually infinite number of electronic devices around us?

The Diamond Age, by Neal Stephenson, tackles this very question. Great book, I just recently finished it.

I love Neal Stephenson but definitely need to read more of his books... will pick up The Diamond Age next, thank you

Vernor Vinge also explored the implications of tiny dust-sized mesh-networked computers in A Deepness In The Sky.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Deepness_in_the_Sky#Localize...

This has been on my to-read list for a long time. Thanks for mentioning it's related to this, sounds like a neat transition to go from Diamond Age to this!

Calling it "intelligence" is just tiring at this point

I doubt they intended it that way, but I immediately read "intelligence" as in "mass surveillance".

Even reading “intelligence” as in AI is interesting in the “millions of cooperative dust particles” sense.

> Calling it "intelligence" is just tiring at this point...

I think more what they are getting at here is emergence[0] rather than "intelligence" like AI/AGI/ML or animal intelligence. Ants are fairly dumb and have mostly simple rule sets but create a form of intelligence through emergent properties. Similarly Conway's Game of Life or even physics itself. I think the problem is that intelligence is often used as a buzzword in marketing and can send mixed signals and makes it difficult to determine what authors mean.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence

Does the size of a computer limit it’s energy consumption. Meaning is there an equation describing power consumption limits of a circuit based on size.

Energy consumption would be limited by supply and energy dissipation, and energy dissipation (roughly speaking) depends on surface area and thermal conductivity. So, yes, for all devices made with a given shape and given materials, there is such an equation.

In theory, I guess, there’s also such an equation for the “upper limit” of heat dissipation for size, for a computer using the optimal shape and optimal materials. But since that probably concerns several-atom-thick devices made of diamond or something, that’s probably not practically useful anytime soon. :)

What is the use-case for computing dust?

Are there any non-dystopian ones?

Blood monitoring. Storm modeling. Fluid dynamics modeling. Air quality monitoring. Just some ideas for things I would want to use it for.

biology does this.

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