Ask HN: What would you do with 50'000 Euro in my situation?

Having been in a similar situation personally, I'd suggest not doing the most pragmatic thing possible which is what I chose. That money will mean nothing in 20 years, but what you choose to do now will. Plan an adventure, take a chance, go somewhere you never pictured yourself.

Ask any older guy, they'll either say they wished they had-- or they'll have great stories from when they did.

Sorry but Schengen Area is now subscription based. Every injection extends one's right for 270 days. One has to plan really diligently not to have their bookings forfeited.

I share your sentiment! Then again there are also older guys who regret a life of unwise financial decisions as they are old now, poor, in bad health etc.

This is why I'd like to strike a sweet spot between new experiences and still making a living. Of course, as there is no free lunch, I'll make less money than I used to (didn't make that much really - about 90k to 100k with bonuses) but also less adventures compared to living a life where you make the most of not planning for the income primarily.

Since you're from Germany have a look at the German https://www.reddit.com/r/Finanzen/ Questions like "I inherited 100k, what should I do now" are common.

My suggestion is backpacking around the world.

I'll check that subreddit out. With back packing - I've done multi week travelling and it always ended with that weird feeling of just being back to the same questions that I left behind. But of course travelling is always something worth of consideration.

>I have 40'000 Euro cash and 60'000 Euro in ETFs/stocks.

Leave it there, try not to spend it, and try to get a higher paying job.

The only thing I'd suggest is that, depending on what your personal safety net looks like (if you hit 0, can you live with your parents?), you put the 40k into ETFs/stocks too instead of just cash.

> if you hit 0, can you live with your parents?

sadly no

> you put the 40k into ETFs/stocks too instead of just cash.

but that's a bit questionable, don't you think? I mean then I'd be easily reaching a point where I need to sell for the sake of paying bills if things go badly and things going badly for me statistically correlates with things going badly for economy and my stocks.

> Leave it there, try not to spend it, and try to get a higher paying job.

Thing is this is what I did up until now - I'm not a carrier guy really but technically my salary increased every time. But it didn't make me happy. So, I want to try something different.

>that's a bit questionable, don't you think?

Yeah, if you can't just live with your parents, then your emergency fund should be in highly liquid, stable assets. Your country's currency is pretty good as far as that goes.

But in terms of leveraging that money to make it big, frankly, 100k Euros is nothing. It's enough money to live off for a few years, so if you have something really good to do with that time besides work, there's that.

> I'm a mid-30s German guy. I just broke up with my g/f after 10 years of relationship. I quit my job. And I'm about to leave my appartment behind. I have 40'000 Euro cash and 60'000 Euro in ETFs/stocks.

Just wondering - Why did you quit the job and the apartment?

Ladies keep the estate, boys move out.

correct ... it's okay with me, though, and I could also stay there if I wanted. but I started to dislike the apartment for further reasons (neighbours f.x.). so I'm quite happy with that possibility.

He didn't want to be reminded of his old life?

seems like in live many decisions are based on current environment and previous decisions. so, if you question one core decision then this questioning is going round like chain of falling dominos. and the job didn't make me happy. I think I'd be willing to stay in IT in the long run. but that work environment was too money-focused for me. too many colleagues whose primarily focus was working, having a career, getting more bonuses etc. if I can move due to end of relationship I can get rid of the job also easily and really ask myself "what do i want?".

Are there any business projects that you'd like to launch? Or maybe some educational topic or skill that you'd like to master? 50k euros is enough money to live on for 2-5+ years, depending on where you want to go. If you make a plan with specific objectives, that's enough time to become really good at just about anything and/or launch your project.

Personally, I'd look into Serbia, Montenegro, Turkey, Morocco, Albania, rural Spain, southern Italy, Romania, or Bulgaria. You can live comfortably on 1,000 euros a month in these countries, which gives you 4+ years of runway.

> Are there any business projects that you'd like to launch?

I fear I have to admit to myself that I'm not the entrepreneurial kind of guy. At least I have no reason to assume so at this point in my life.

> Or maybe some educational topic or skill that you'd like to master?

There are many skills I'd like to master. As somebody dabbling in ADHD this is almost more of a bug than a feature. It would have to be something I can plan. Something where I can calculate cost of learning, timeline and how to make money with it at some point. Will think about it. Nothing convincing coming to my mind atm.

> Personally, I'd look into Serbia, Montenegro, Turkey, Morocco, Albania, rural Spain, southern Italy, Romania, or Bulgaria. You can live comfortably on 1,000 euros a month in these countries, which gives you 4+ years of runway.

Do you have personal experience with some or all of those countries?

> It would have to be something I can plan. Something where I can calculate cost of learning, timeline and how to make money with it at some point.

This might be the opportunity to learn a skill that isn't dependent on making money. Learn to paint, write a novel, read classic literature [1], repair motorcycles, or make music. Just a thought. You have an opportunity to step outside of financial restrictions on what to do with your time, at least for a few years. Oftentimes, developing a hobby will turn into lucrative opportunities unexpectedly.

Otherwise, maybe just find a tech field you want to work in and then master it? AI, data science, crypto, etc.

> Do you have personal experience with some or all of those countries?

Yep, I've been to about half of them and are familiar with / have acquaintances from the other half. Depends on what you're looking for, but my personal top choices would be Belgrade, Istanbul, or somewhere in Morocco.

[1] I recommend these collections: The Harvard Classics, Great Books of the Western World, St. John's Eastern Classics, and Sacred Books of the East. You could read most of these in a few years.

> Belgrade, Istanbul, or somewhere in Morocco.

Especially regarding Morocco - what are your thoughts on low standard health infrastructure. would it be a good idea to pull off Morocco if you have slight health issues?

Depends on the issue. The public health infrastructure wasn't great, but there are private clinics that seemed fine. I imagine the ones in Rabat (capital city, much more laid back than the rest of the country) are probably the best. If you are in Tangier you can easily get to Spain, too.

But aren't you as a white guy considered and treated as some kind of walking wallet?

Eh, it depends on where you are and how much you blend in. In some of the more touristy areas, there are a lot of people trying to sell you stuff constantly. Otherwise, it's not really an issue. Bargaining is expected in most markets, so the initial price is usually a ripoff anyway.

Or even India. You can live like a king on 1k eur a month

Would it possible to find an apartment and live in an integrating way or would I have to stick to hostels etc. I'm a bit hesitent of pure travelling in the backpacking sense as I already know I'll get bored of meeting loads of people all the time while those relationships do never (?) go beyond a superficial lets-go-have-a-drink stage.

Depends on your risk appetite, age, and responsibilities. It's going to be a different answer for all of us.

I will put all of it into investing in myself. Maybe I could take some time off to focus on learning something that I always wanted and can earn huge income from or perhaps start a more risky endeavor such as a business.

To maximize the utility of 50K, I would move to a well connected but cheaper cost of living country.

In the end, what do you want to do? Do you want to use this opportunity to increase your potential to earn more or do you need a break to get back on track?

Are you enjoying life currently?

> Depends on your risk appetite, age, and responsibilities. It's going to be a different answer for all of us.

Totally. I'd say my risk affinity is higher than average but far from risk seeking. I consider myself risk accepting as long as I get something back for it (even in case of failure - for example fun, experiences) and as long as I can somewhat gauge the risk level and control it to some extent. I like rock climbing, scuba diving, drugs but I'm not the base jumper type of guy. Also no responsibilities (esp. no kids)

> I will put all of it into investing in myself. Maybe I could take some time off to focus on learning something that I always wanted and can earn huge income from or perhaps start a more risky endeavor such as a business.

Learning something new is definitely a good idea. If I'd just knew what. But I'll keep thinking about it. I don't think I'd go back to university. But something where learning and earning goes hand in hand would be something I'd consider. If I'd be ten years younger I might consider studying medicine and aim for becoming a surgeon - but I hate to say it - I feel that would be too high of a time investment at that point in my life.

> To maximize the utility of 50K, I would move to a well connected but cheaper cost of living country.

Where would you move?

One thing that piqued my interest is stock market trading. I'm not referring to buying and holding - that's called investing and you're already doing that. I'm referring to more complex trading scenarios that use options contracts as hedging, typically around a companies earnings report date. Usually you need about that amount of money ($25k+) to get started because you will be on a margin account. You would need to do significant research to understand the mechanics, how to setup trades, etc. to minimize risk. From what I understand it doesn't have to be a full-time all day, every day type of hours. And it doesn't matter if it is a bull or bear market, stocks are always moving somewhere.

An example could be to take a position using options contracts around a companies earnings release thinking the stock will go up (because you've researched it, not guessing) and hedging so losses are minimal in case you're wrong. This might mean a company is say at $90/share and you think it will go up to $105 so you get options contracts for $105 and contracts at $85 in case it falls. I've only skimmed the surface of how this works since I have limited knowledge but that is the gist of it. There is a lot more detail involved with put vs call contracts and buying vs selling them and how the options greeks impact pricing, etc. There are tools out there that let you understand better the risk at different stock prices/options using statistical models.

Obviously if you don't have interest or don't fully understand how these work you could turn your 50k to 0k rather quickly.

> Obviously if you don't have interest or don't fully understand how these work you could turn your 50k to 0k rather quickly.

Exactly. I also grew up with a firm belief in market efficiency and no free lunch. So, I have immense trouble believing someone like me with only basic knowledge about markets, not much money and no insider info would do well with options and futures.

Adding to my thoughts above, if I was not employed and had a lot of time, I would educate myself on how options and futures work and start learning the tools people use to determine risk factors. I believe this is what "trading desk" wall street professionals do, with much larger amounts. Once I grasped the details then I'd paper trade some things to keep learning before starting with small amounts.

There is a fair amount of freely available info on how this works and I have a hunch that there is some math involved, which possibly means programming :), to determine lower risk trade positions that could be profitable. You'd have to factor in taxes into these equations since they would be considered short trades (< 1 year).

I just have trouble believing that I could pull that off as a private low-end investor. There shouldn't be any financial opportunities waiting for somebody like me at a market involving much more experienced folks plus HFT companies, banks etc. But I agree, it's and interesting idea. Being a news addict the idea of leveraging this into informed decisions sounds great. But I guess it's not for me.

what is a good resource to learn options. Lot of books have the theory and I seem to get it but any resource that has a more practical approach using some form of paper money would be great

I would start with "Options trading for beginners" by a school teacher [0]. He does have all the usual youtube monetization stuff going on if that bothers you. There are other youtube videos as well if you search for options trading. At least this helped explain some of the vocabulary and how things work.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDFj310VJlM

>You get an opportunity (or just thrown into that situation) to start from an almost blank slate and you have 50k and no debts. What would you do?

Under normal circumstances (Covid restriction and war and such), I would travel. I did some stupid shit (wasting money, etc) in my 20s, but traveling was the one thing I don't regret at all. Meeting new people in new places is about as symbolic as it gets to starting "new" life.

If you insist on investing, I would leave the money as it is.

I'll probably have to prepare with travelling anyway.

> If you insist on investing, I would leave the money as it is.

Just to clarify - "investing" here wasn't meant strictly in the financial sense. More as "intentional and planned spending money with a goal in mind". Travelling could also be "investing" in that sense if your goal is to maximize diversity and frequency of interesting experiences.

Move to an area with low burn (ex: Thailand) get a remote job. Keep investing. Retire early?

I suppose that's a classic. I'd be hesitant due to the huge distance as I'd like to still be able to come back to Germany for family stuff. People dying, having died. I'm also wondering if Thailand isn't fed up with Westeners coming there for a cheap life. But generally I'll think about that option. Could also consider European places - Romania or Albania for example. Also cheap - but geographically and culturally closer. Nigeria or Kenya maybe even - not really culturally closer but geographically. Maybe should visit there first. Have neither been to Asia in my entire life nor to Africa.

I suggest looking into czech, Bulgaria, etc. They have a developing tech scene and are business friendly.

Having been to Bulgaria, yet. Will keep that in mind.

Is Portugal still good these days?

Have been to Portugal few months ago and I have to say - that country is awesome! But it feels like a place that is at the brink of being really hyped. It's already getting more expensive every year from what I heard and my impression is that this going to accelerate due to lots of rich people especially from Brazil and Spain flocking there. Not to mention pretty much any other European country as it is a very very healthy combination of culture, nature, business, weather, food, low crime etc.

Had been in similar position months before outbreak of pandemic, completed the move out and German paperwork on February 2020. This is an awkward amount of money. Staying in Germany will burn at least 1-1.5k EUR monthly in rent, rundfunk, health insurance, etc. Ended up in place inherited from grandparents back in Poland. Lockdowns efficiently cooled down remorse caused by doing nothing.

> Lockdowns efficiently cooled down remorse caused by doing nothing.

Can relate to that. But I am at a point where I think I need to make a decision for my own life and not have Karl Lauterbach further decide how and how much I live freely. I'm also no longer in favor of the measurements at that point and would consider a foreign country for the sake of removing myself from those.

What to do in your situation… hmm. Well, you’re right, 50000 odd euros is a nuisance. Not enough to retire on, too much to spend frivolously.

Now for my advice. The fastest way to become a thousandaire is to start as a ten-thousandaire. Keep the money out of your mind for a bit, and figure out what you want out of life next. Once you know, then go think about the money.

That's definitely the right approach. But as you can imagine from my micro-bio I'm at a point in my life where I got stuck a little - otherwise you don't just full stop in so many life areas at the same time. I feel like I won't really find out what I want without putting lots of interesting options in a bucket and then draw one and stick with it for a while. I'd hope this would help me to unclog my mind.

One thing I’ve observed about my own interest in things, or hobbies you could say, is that I keep coming back to the same stuff I was interested in when I was a kid, around 14 or 15 years old. That’s probably just me though. I’m a bit of a slow burner, maybe I’ve got a lot of unfinished projects. I’m working my way through them, and enjoying simply discovering. (FWIW some of it’s centered around game dev - I know, so common it’s almost trite).

Anyway, I remember some girl on Facebook with a tag line on her profile that said “Just because you’re an adult, it doesn’t mean playtime is over”. I’m sure she got it from somewhere else, but I thought it was a good little mantra.

Hope that helps :)

Buy a house/airbnb and rent it out.

50k or even 100k EUR will not buy you anything rentable in Germany.

maybe something like a camping place with a bar and some sanitary facilities. that won't really be lucrative though - and I'd be really afraid of the regulations I'd have to meet. buying something outside of Germany I'd be worried about getting ripped off.

I don't mean pay for the whole amount. Say the property costs EUR200k. You put EUR50k down as a deposit and get a mortgage for the remainder. The monthly rental then pays off the mortgage, and after 10-20 years you have a house worth much more than EUR200k (due to appreciation in the housing market). Obviously you need to do your own calculations to make sure the rent covers the mortgage, allowing for periods where the property isn't rented, repairs etc.

Getting a "buy-to-let" property like this is pretty common in the UK. I'm assuming something similar would work in Germany.

buy farmland is surest way to survive. :) if you want organize a business in indonesia i can help you with that. you are rich here since you use euro.

what is your experience with acceptance among the Indonesian population. are you treated as an exploiter / colonialist or considered a possible friend and peer?