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Comment by pastrami_panda | Hacker News Reader

With all the events happening right now I find it really hard to justify buying products made in China/Russia/Belarus.

This product looks great, but I'll never have a clean conscious knowing my money is by extension financing terrorists.

What electronics can you buy that aren’t basically Chinese devices at this point? Raspberry pi has assembly in Wales but parts are sourced normally, from China. I understand the feeling but, just like it’s hard to participate in the modern economy and oppose climate change, it’s hard to boycott China.

Really, I’m honestly looking for alternatives, not saying you’re wrong. How do we get out from this situation?

I think Samsung mostly avoids producing products in China.

https://www.makeuseof.com/where-are-samsung-phones-made/

> How do we get out from this situation?

Get together with close allies (Europe, Japan, Korea, Australia, etc.) and decide to run afoul of the WTO. Favor domestic and close partners though heavy subsidies. This will upset the global balance of trade, treaties, etc. and will cause international tensions to rise, but it'll have to be done.

Build domestic factories in a special economic zone. Staff them with lots of immigrants and provide free education, child support, low cost of living, and a guaranteed path to citizenship. Open the flood gates, because we'll need lots of people.

Companies that build these factories get thirty years of 100% tax exemptions. Companies that source from them get lower taxes too.

If China complains, cut off the food and energy exports. It's their weakness and they'll step in line.

Are there any glaring flaws in this plan?

Huawei is a Chinese corporation. That’s a little different than simply being made there (which companies are finally starting to move away from)

Why are you lumping China with the actual invaders? There's the Taiwan mess, and China don't participate in the sanctions regime, but it's not the same thing as actively invading. ( For the record, i think that sanctioning Russia is the morally correct thing to do)

It's simply because it's way overdue. China does countless things I can't support and for me this was the stick that broke the camel's back.

While not on top of the news cycle, the continuing un-freeing of Hong Kong, the treatment of the Uyghur population, and likely a number of other things, qualify for pastrami_pasta's “happening right now” description.

They are committing genocide, run concentration camps and forced labour. They actively threat Taiwan. That's more than enough to justify avoiding them.

They are not committing genocide. https://undocs.org/pdf?symbol=en/A/HRC/41/G/17

You're link is dead. Here [1] is a fairly nuanced take that concludes that most scholars would call what is happening "genocide," particularly due to the forced sterilizations.

Regardless of whether it matches everyone's exact definition, it's clearly an atrocity.

1. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/is-china-committing-g...

Try this one: https://undocs.org/A/HRC/41/G/17

UN representatives didn't characterize the situation as a genocide.

Following the 'forced sterilization' link from the article you linked brought me to this one: https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we...

In there, they say frame it as an attack on minorities, but then they describe it as being applicable to people who already have 3 or more children. They just finished up a 1 child policy for the entire country and the Han majority are still reproducing below replacement levels.

There is plenty to disagree with about their policies, but it's not genocide.

China could easily tell Russia to knock it off.

They can't. Going against Russia means supporting USA, which is currently China's number one enemy.

Hong Kong

Tibet, too.

Tibet has been already managed by cn gov for more than 80 yrs. Many roads and railways are under construction. I can't see what problem in Tibet.

It seems like some people really wanted a war with China, and are very upset that they got a war with Russia instead.

Just wait a couple weeks until they get relobotomized by CNN & Friends, then they won't really care about whom they are going to war with so long as they throw enough bombs around

China is currently having about 18 border disputes. Amongst all the non land grabbing stuff they are doing.

That's ridiculous. Japan has a load of border disputes, and pacifism is literally written into their constitution. Most countries in east asia have them.

Japan claiming a few island is different to China claiming the whole south china sea and expanding its imaginary 9 dash line.

So trying to bring Japan into this is just ridiculous.

... The whole point about claiming islands is that they include an EEZ (exclusive economic zone). That's how you claim a 'whole sea'.

Of course, the real reason people argue over islands because it gets idiots riled up (Abe and successors depend on the nationalist vote, Xi depends on the nationalist faction, etc) and because geography in the far east is a mess of contradictions, so it's easy to make a plausible claim.

Foreign people getting excited over it is like a whole new meta level of stupidity.

Good thing I’m not a foreign people.

China refuses to condemn Russia and is towing their "peacekeeping" "denazification" line.

No longer, today they said they'll work for peace and condemn the violence.

Nope, as of 7 hours ago China merely "regrets" the violence necessitated by the "legitimate national security claims" of Russia.

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/k2/1636556-20220301.h...

Do you have a source?

I have seen other statements.

> Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi deplored the conflict between Ukraine and Russia, calling it a “war” and saying that he is “extremely concerned” about the harm to civilians, his office said in a statement following a call with his Ukrainian counterpart, Dmytro Kuleba.

Source: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/bloomberg/eu-approves-list-to-c...

Unfortunately I think it's a mistranslation.

None of the Chinese language media reports him calling it a "war", but instead only a "conflict".

Official source disclosing the same call: http://www.gov.cn/guowuyuan/2022-03/01/content_5676356.htm

> , but I'll never have a clean conscious knowing my money is by extension financing terrorists

We should all stop buying American products as well, especially Apples'

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/facing-hostile-chine...

I very much prefer China to any American Corporation

You prefer China (presumably here we mean the CCP) to any American corporation, because some American companies have done the moral wrong of sometimes folding to the CCP? Seems a bit inside out.

I guess he wanted to be aligned with OP, as in: Russia-Ukraine war => Don't support Russia. America-Afghanistan war => Don't support America.

> You prefer China (presumably here we mean the CCP)

There only exists one official China on this planet...

> because some American companies have done the moral wrong

Do we really wanna talk about all the wrong American governments and/or corporations have done in the past 75 years?

Or how many resources they depleted while large parts of the World were barely surviving?

Are you sure?

>There only exists one official China on this planet...

ROC an PRC agree on that at least.

Yes, go ahead and directly compare the US with China. How many deaths can be directly attributed to each? How free are the citizens of China to criticize the Chinese leadership? The US? Which of the two country's practice organ harvesting? Which of the two country's is practicing ethnic cleansing right now? Is there a single historical event in the US that everyone is in fear of discussing at all? How about talking about Tiananmen square in China? You don't think that China is "depleting resources"?

People like you always want to compare historic issues with current issues, when it advances your rabid anti-US rhetoric. The truth of the matter is that times change and people, countries, and industry is doing so much better now. Comparing the US of 75 years ago to the China of today is a dishonest juxtaposition, that both slanders the US and infantilizes China.

> Yes, go ahead and directly compare the US with China

usually people who are completely wrong don't even know how much wrong they are...

> Which of the two country's practice organ harvesting?

Countries like the U.S. and Canada did not include organ trafficking as a form of human trafficking when adopting their national laws on human trafficking. However, in the U.S. for example, some individual states like Massachusetts include organ trafficking within their state laws on human trafficking.

> Which of the two country's is practicing ethnic cleansing right now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethnic_cleansing_in_t...

or do you prefer

https://www.pastemagazine.com/politics/ethnic-cleansing/trum...

> How about talking about Tiananmen square in China?

Do you ever talk about putting Pinochet in command in Chile?

Or of the many other atrocities you, as a nation, committed in recent history?

> You don't think that China is "depleting resources"?

Average meat consumption in China is at 45kg per person per year, USA is at 119kg per person per year. Or 264 pounds, if you prefer nonsensical units of measurement.

And you have been doing it for almost a century.

The United States accounts for about five percent of global population, but is responsible for 30 percent of global energy use and 28 percent of carbon emissions

> Comparing the US of 75 years ago to the China of today is a dishonest juxtaposition

China is still a better trade partner than USA, even today.

The only reason Americans hate Chinese so much (it's a recent thing, they used to love 'em) is simply because they beat them at manufacturing.

But when they buy US debt they are fine with it...

Or when they invest in Silicon Valley together with bloodthirsty Saudi Crown Princes, they open not only their doors, but also their hearts to them.

Here we can see Tim Cook together with Mohammed bin Salman, responsbile for the Khashoggi assassination in 2018.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/h6MR1tH-Ps__vGg-IZWyUTL-5Ho=...

(from https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/5/1/18511540/silicon-valley-...)

Here we can see your elected President explaining how many fighter jets and other weapons your country sold to Saudi Arabia (translation: to Bin Salman, the man besides him)

https://gdb.voanews.com/7BB4C7FE-F921-4D0D-867F-53B7691931F0...

If you think that China is to be boycotted, well, I don't see a reason why to not boycott USA as well.

It's very simple logic, you probably don't see it from there, but from the real land of the free, you're not that different.

Both. Both. Both. In different forms, but, more or less, all of this occurred in both US and CN. And other countries too. People get butthurt a lot when someone's criticizing their country, but I don't care about countries, I care about humanity. And it was hard to overcome all the brainwashing.

But you'd buy an iPad right? Chinese factory owners certainly aren't making any money there /s

I hope you don't own any Apple products.

It looks like a ripoff of the reMarkable 2 eInk pad. https://remarkable.com/ I’m surprised Apple or Microsoft hasn’t made an eInk display. Btw what happened to Amazon’s Kindle DX? That was literally the pioneer in the large eInk display space but it disappeared. I miss Kindle DX https://www.amazon.com/Kindle-DX-Wireless-Reader-3G-Global/

Wow, what a political tangent. If your conscience is clean, it's only because of your own convenient ignorance. Financing terrorists is something that is done by all militant empires. It's a pretty basic strategic military tactic. And the more militant the empire is, the more terrorist financing they're engaged in. Overthrowing democratically elected governments is a typical outcome.

You've already done that, and keep doing that by using services which rely on oil, electronics, food, etc.

I honestly enjoy this line of argument. Reminds me of the meme of a bunch of spidermen pointing guns at each other and shouting "No You" at each other. Tell me what country you are from and I tell you why your products should be banned.

Noting that, Huawei is especially special in these Chinese tech firms. I come from China and I, personnally, shall never buy any Huawei product. This is the compony really makes me disgusting. They advertise their products by tying themselves with Chinese nationalism. I.e., if you do not use Huawei as a Chinese, you betrayed your country. WTF. Their advertising strategy is even undermining the entire Chinese socirty, IMO. If you can endure this, or if you love their propagandas and support Chinese nationalism particularly, order your next Huawei phone or pad or something. Personnally I shall never. BTW, I do consider other Chinese firms. I declare that I do not have any interests with these companies, I'm only a humble consumer, believe it or not.

I don’t understand; China is not taking part in the “events happening right now” (assuming you mean invasion of Ukraine); the global boycott focuses on Russia (and to a lesser extent on Belarus).

He/she means everything, because he/she cant otherwise verbalize what upsets him/her

All the news cycle becomes a tangled mess of "being upset at things", it doesn't really matter if these things are verifiable or not, the broader apparatus benefits either way so long as you become irrationally upset

I think we should make the effort to verbalize things in a precise way. Otherwise this leads to noise/disinformation in general (and in particular it dillutes message to boycott Russia to put pressure on Russia to stop the invasion).

Worse still, Huawei is actively participating in the Uyghur genocide.

Leaked documents link Huawei to China’s domestic spying in Xinjiang: https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/22834860/huawei-leaked-d...

Huawei patent mentions use of Uighur-spotting tech: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-55634388

Finally someone pointed to this, thanks! As soon as I became aware that huawei supplies concentration camps, I stopped buying their products.

I loved products from Huawei and Xiaomi, but also can't justify buying their products since the Uyghur situation.

I think you have a good notion about not buying Chinese stuff, but that reason doesn't make much sense to me. I've heard people say that the US might have caused the deaths of half a million children in the aftermath of the Iraq invasion; do you buy anything from the US?

Nonono, you see these are the good guys, they had good intentions

They had good intentions supporting the invasion of Venezuela, or doing/supporting a coup in Brazil and Bolivia

They always have good intentions so kind

It is just odd why a place with such good intentions would not encourage Ukraine to sign the Minsk 2 agreements, but it was probably just an accident, all bad things such as these are always just accidents, yes, yes, accidents

(apologies for polluting HN like so, but the levels of apologia that we have seen on the last few days and the figureheads that have shown themselves back on the public eye is just vomit inducing)

And even though most Americans had nothing to do with it the ones that did are still walking free and will never face the ICC. [1]

All I can hope for is that after what is happening now that Russia will face the ICC and the western countries that have committed crimes will also face justice.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...

EDIT: If you are going to down vote me, please explain your position. I don't see how anyone can disagree with war crimes being prosecuted.

"heard people say", "might have caused"

Good thing you're going with the science on this one, or you wouldn't be able to buy anything from anywhere.

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