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Comment by symbix | Hacker News Reader

I get that, and you're totally entitled to do this. And you're probably right that ends justify the means. And, probably, total damage will be worth it. But, in my insignificant personal case, I will be busy moving domains and paying for transfers instead of doing what I've been doing and spending money on what I've been spending it for the last 5 days, helping people detained and/or arrested for participating in anti-war protests (as a volunteer, see https://ovdinfo.org/).

And, you know, those people you want to point at their own government, they won't get it. They're brainwashed by Putin's propaganda which has reached true Goebbels level. It was going there for a while, Putin's regime began with gradually shutting down free media 20 years ago. Yes, people do have internet, and Russian internet is full of Putin's propaganda. Russian authorities are banning websites telling the truth (yes there's a government powered DPI firewall which every major ISP has to install by law). And they're working on a law which will make it a crime with 15 years of sentence just for calling the war the war. So I wouldn't count on that. The only thing that might work is hearing the truth from friends and families, but it's very hard to talk to those people. I'm trying, though, when there's still at least some reasoning.

I'm not complaining. While I did try to fight against the regime since its beginning, I could've done more. We screwed this up, and we're responsible, and all the inconveniences we might have cannot be compared to the suffering of people of Ukraine. Just saying.

View on HN

Hey I saw a post on a local FB group today from an Aussie company who worked with a Russian dev years ago and had their contact details on one of 50 domains, and they're being asked to move everything.

They said support is not responsive, any way you can be more discriminating about the level of Russian involvement that will trigger a suspension? I will post a link to your statement here for them.

Dude, right now all of us are in deep shock, while:

- some are trying to find their relatives in Ukraine

- some are coordinating and volunteering

- some are trying to get themselves and their families outside of Russia (which gets harder by the minute because of prices and sanctions)

- some are trying to smuggle at least some of the money outside, because their entire life savings are now blocked

- some are trying to preserve what they have despite ruble and market crashing

- some are hunkering down with what they have and their loved ones, trying to stockpile some food before prices skyrocket

and no one has any time to cope and process anything - don't forget usual workloads, too. planning for a week feels like it's already a strategic, not a tactical scope

I get what you're trying to do, but can't you at least give more time for everyone? Right now I need to drop everything and migrate my DNS as well because my private email that I use for docs will stop working in 6 days. And to figure out how to pay the transfer fees while doing all that. It's very much fucking stressful already.

edit: I've worded that badly - I'm not complaining, I'm just asking for a bit longer grace period for everyone. It's very easy to miss an email for 6 days during these times. All of these issues are obviously dwarfed by what Ukrainian people are going through right now.

We will give you more time to move, please reach out to our support and they will take care if it.

Are you giving more time to everybody or just the people who complain?

it already mentions "by march 6", i think it's enough time

I disagree, 6 days is not enough time. Especially for people who are not tech savvy.

Bad move.

Oh you are right, for some reasons i read this as "May 6".. indeed, 6 days seems rushed

I think it's a very reasonable consequence for voting in a dictator and a mass murderer.

Did they really vote him in though? If anyone was going to rig and election…

No they didn't. He stayed in power via manipulation and assassinations and things like that. Cannot blame the people. (Well, a few, but in general.) Stalin also wasn't the people's fault.

There's been some estimates of how many votes Putin would get, if there were real elections, no vote fraud, no threats, opposition politicians hadn't been killed or imprisoned, everyone got to vote, didn't get bribed to vote on Putin -- and then from what I read, a large majority would vote against him.

Putins approval rating is around 70% (measured before the Ukraine invasion). His highest approval rating was about 88% back when Crimea was annexed. So he has broad public support and the population seem to be largely in favor of the expansionist policies, at least until now.

these are official government statistics, am I right?

By all accounts, he didn’t need to, but this goes so much further than just Putin. Local elections exist, they have a bicameral legislative body that approved this invasion, they originally approved the authoritarian constitution that allowed this to happen, they continue to prop up strong men in their culture and in their government.

This is a continuous choice by the Russian people to support men like Putin and Yeltsin, and it has massive negative consequences for the rest of the world.

Of course it makes sense to make it marginally harder to register and maintain a domain on the Internet as a result. If that’s the price a small handful of Russians have to pay for all of this, they should be infinitely grateful.

As an independent observer on the last Duma (lower house of Russian parliament) elections, I can tell with certainty that these elections were rigged. Upper house of the parliament is not elected.

If Russian elections are not free and fair (which they likely aren't), and the Russian people are not revolting or leaving, they are complicit in the outcomes anyway.

How exactly you see a revolution of unarmed people against fully armed people that have no problem with hurting and killing others? Do you really think that average Russian has enough money to leave the country?

Not well! But the alternative is to let Putin kill and threaten people on your behalf, so that's not going well either. No good options here, but at least if you revolt or leave, he's not doing those things with your endorsement. "It's hard!" is not an excuse to tolerate war crimes.

And yes, I really think the average Russian has enough resources to leave the country, because you need zero resources to stand up from your chair and walk in a direction. If you're stopped, that's not your fault, you're actively trying.

So you’re saying that all Russian people should just die horrible death trying to go unarmed against National Guard (the force that exists specifically to beat up and torture protestors)...

...or just be shot trying to illegally cross the border.

You’re literally suggesting some sort of self-genocide of 150 million nation.

If you think the most effective way to overthrow the Russian government is to try to go 1 on 1 against the Russian National Guard, you're probably not going to last very long in Russia or anywhere else, for that matter.

Same if you think literally doing zero prep work to leave Russia has a high chance of success. If it's your only option, you're not thinking creatively enough.

It just seems like you're operating in a state of learned helplessness, which is immensely sad but not the only way to live.

Please, do tell me the most effective way to overthrow the Russian government. I’m a member of protest movement since my high school and I assure you that if you have some option none of us are aware of, I’ll carefully consider it.

Also please explain what “prep work” can an average Russian with monthly income about $450 can do to sucessfully leave Russia.

“Stop treating overthrowing your murderous government as your hobby.”, would probably be step one.

Until then you’re just cosplaying so you can sleep at night.

And it costs nearly nothing to legally cross a border, but yes if the options are, “Continue to live in Russia” or, “Illegally cross a border.” Then break the law.

Your suggestions completely lack any specific actions. What exactly do you think could be done by unarmed and disorganized (because Council of Europe didn’t care when Navalny was jailed despite ECHR decision) Russian people? Please, elaborate on your proposed strategy.

Residence of which country you can get without having a lot of money and/or good career like IT specialist? How do you think unarmed person can illegally cross a border guarded by armed people without getting killed?

Either my suggestions lack specific action or crossing the border of another country will get you killed. One or the other, not both.

And if you don’t know what an insurgency is or how to run one, that’s on you to figure out. It is the only moral option if you’re Russian and want to stay in Russia.

Your suggestions about revolution lack any specific actions, your suggestions about immigration are simply way to get killed.

“Lol just figure out how to overthrow heavily militarized government” is completely ignoring the obvious truth that this is simply impossible. It was probably possible some years ago with support from abroad, but the only thing international institutions cared about was cheap natural gas and oil, so they ignored violations of international law and treated Putin as a lawful president. So now we have decapitated opposition, silenced media (just today two independent media were banned) and 2% of Russians serving in police and military. It stops any seeds of revolution from ever growing.

If you think it's impossible to overthrow the Russian government, then you should leave, and you will not be shot by border guards for illegally trying to leave Russia, that's completely wrong.

It sounds like you're comfortable where you are, and need to justify it to yourself that your country is using your consent to commit atrocities that you're ultimately okay with as long as you remain comfortable.

That's cowardice.

How do you imagine nearly 150 million people, most of them very poor by European standards, leaving the country? Why do you even think this is a moral action?

Money used to invade Ukraine mostly comes from other countries buying Russian natural resources. If you want to stop the invasion, go and protest against _your_ government to make it stop buying Russian oil.

I’m staying so I can protest and try to sway the current governments intentions. It’s hard and dangerous, but it has more chances to succeed than overthrowing the government. I’m staying so I can help the protestors. I’m staying so I can actually _do_ something about the situation. Leaving the country is actually easy for me (unlike most Russian citizens), but I don’t think it’s the morally right action.

You think 150 million people can act in unison to leave Russia, but cannot act in unison to fight to retake Russia?

I think that says a lot about how you really feel, and it's not good.

It's increddibly shortsighted, It's cutting out people that is trying to fight with true information, leaving the propaganda unquestioned. This is why we won't cut internet to russia.

Here's an analogy, most people here are allergic to Trump. It would be the same to have blocked US people because Trump got elected.

Completely understandable, from my perspective. US citizens have a lot to answer for, just like Russian citizens, and should be held to account for their leadership choices.

They won't be, though, even if we assume they should be. "Holding Russian people to account", on the other hand, is emotionally easy and relatively consequence-free.

Careful with that, this justification was also used for the attack on the Twin Towers.

Yeah because dropping someone from your DNS registrar is the same thing as 9/11…

What a horrific and insensitive comment. Christ…

It would be the same to have blocked US people because Bush started an invasion that would cause hundreds of thousands to die. And I think that would be valid, certainly morally if not strategically.

I never voted for Putin and pretty sure that most of the Russian Namecheap clients never did. Namecheap was a safe harbour because the domain could be seized by the Russian authorities, and now it's act of betrayal of the loyal customers who payed many years in times when they needed them most. I've already received the emails from Russian registrars promising the discount, so this money would go to Russian companies. It's like ordering a taxi drive because of some urgent needs, paying in advance, and then the car stops in Mulholland Drive way and they declare you should call another taxi company within several minutes because you are Russian and the driver is Ukrainian.

This makes perfect sense to me; if you are Russian, you should be held accountable for your leadership choices (you didn’t vote for him, but you love and support people and a system that did) and acquiescence to rule by a man who is clearly evil.

I don’t think this is even close to the level of accountability necessary for the Russian people to see the gravity of their mistake.

You deserve isolation, in my opinion, for your marginal part supporting a system of corruption and mass murder. Some very small amount of Ukranian blood is on your hands, and that means you pay this minor economic cost.

This is victim blaming on an unprecedented scale. The average russian has zero control over the actions of the dicatorship, and thus can't be held accountable. Collective punishment for the actions of few is always wrong, especially when the collective has no control over the situation. You are blaming an entire nation for the grave crime of being born in the wrong place.

I have nothing but contempt for you.

No, I am blaming an entire nation for the attempted murder of another nation.

It’s naïve as hell to think the Russian people aren’t complicit in their government’s actions; Putin is not a dictator, and he is not the only evil actor in Russian government.

Collective punishment for the actions of the collective is not wrong, but a great way of meting out justice to those who have acted morally wrong, as the Russian people have.

You may have contempt for me, but I hold disgust and malice for the Russians here acting like they’re blameless for what’s happening in Ukraine; they’re just as proportionally responsible as Putin. He’s their leader, he’s their fault.

Why do you think this regime exists?? Do you think it's the expression of the will of the Russian people? Please, I beg of you, learn a little bit about the dismantling of the Soviet Union and the brazen interference in their elections by western powers, for the purposes of violently suppressing dissent against the bandits who are in charge today.

Also, I don't know what country you're in, but there is a HIGH chance that you do NOT want to be held accountable for the crimes it committed and will continue to commit.

So it’s a) not your fault, b) there’s nothing you can do and c) I’m just as bad as you?

Sorry but no. This regime exists because the Russian people allow it to exist, full stop. If you think there’s nothing you can do, that’s just your cowardice talking. The Ukranians are proving that one hundred fold.

I'm not Russian, I just have basic empathy

Apparently not enough for the Ukranians, who actually have no say in any of this.

What's up with every Russian answer on HN being brand new accounts? None of these responders had an account and now chose to speak up?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.

Consequences for an authoritarian regime invading its neighbor aren’t suppose to be convenient.

Until very recently, rhetoric about sanctions was masked in polite fictions like "this is meant to target corrupt leaders" and "we fully support the people of the country in the struggle against their authoritarian leader," etc.

It is alarming how quickly this has shifted to open acknowledgment: "yeah, these measures are meant to punish ordinary people until they sacrifice their lives for regime change." This has always been the subtext, but I haven't seen it wielded so freely like this.

I wonder if this situation will change the framing of sanctions in other countries. Maybe we can stop pretending that sanctions aren't strictly meant to bend the population until they break.

There is a fine line between making it hurt for normal people and make the affirmation of Putins world view that they are under attack. People are already living with a lie their whole life, it doesn't help if we affirm this just when they start to see the light... Cutting of the people that is trying to get the truth to the population is very counter productive in this case.

And, People with internet domain names, tend to be younger, more against Putin already?

”It is alarming how quickly this has shifted to open acknowledgment”

The mask have been taken off. All we see is the cold face of war.

Something like that said the president of Finland. And the diplomatic paths were tried for months already.

We (the west) all know that sanctions are going to hit ordinary Russians, but also people outside the Russia. Nothing to compare with horrors in Ukraine. But it looks like we have currently no other option. Are we sliding to a new world war. That is what we try to avoid. We are already sending weapons but non-acting would seem we support the war Russia has started. Putin has went so far that it is unlikely that he will stop. We hope the change comes from the inside, and that he is stopped. I know, it is a naive thought.

This is a lose-lose situation for everyone.

At the same time we are in danger of escalating energy crisis, banking crisis and the climate change.

> Until very recently, rhetoric about sanctions was masked in polite fictions like "this is meant to target corrupt leaders"

I think this was always an excuse by economic interests trying to limit the scope of sanctions in hopes of reducing the business impact, at least that's how I've read it.

Sanctions are a flexible tool of warfare that scales from targeting leaders, to damaging the enemy's ability to replenish supplies, to total economic collapse so as to destroy the state's ability to function.

Just the people who complain, which seems reasonable. Quoting the GP:

"If more grace time is necessary for some to move, we will provide it."

It's the standard PR appeasement of companies - complain loudly in a place others might see, and we shall see to your needs. Thousands of others who might also be suffering and don't have the means to do so or don't know that this is how it works - well, too bad.

I just want to point out that this is the first time I've read a Russian resident's perspective on what's happening right now.

The overall picture I get in Western media is that Russians are being dragged into this against their will by Putin. People have started calling for sanctions on certain regime members and supporters, but have so far avoided more broadly demonizing the Russian populace. I hope it stays that way.

Good luck.

My understanding is that older Russians tend to be more supportive of the war.

Not only do they more broadly believe Ukraine isn’t a legitimate country independent of Russia, they’re also more likely to perceive threats from the west and the potential for Ukraine to become a contributor to the threat very quickly. They’ve witnessed conflicts materializing very quickly in the past, and they’re aware it could happen again. Ukraine has dramatically improved their military training, equipment, and size since Crimea. Given that alone it’s clear to see how many Russians might see Ukraine as a threat with their non-NATO status and demilitarization not being guaranteed.

Having said that, it seems Putin has been trying to encourage acceptance of war in Russia for months because evidently there isn’t a broad enough acceptance as it is. At least from the government’s perspective, as they’ve been planning this war for quite a while. I believe the necessity of the war from their perspective came sooner than expected, otherwise they likely would have been seeding the idea of the need for war much earlier. I’m not sure.

So there are certainly a lot of Russian people who believe the war is justified. I’m not sure what the ratios of for/neutral/against are, but I suspect they’re not especially lopsided. Unfortunately. It doesn’t seem there’s significant reason to believe Putin will back down, or that Russian people will force him to.

The whole country premise is based on war. Unfortunately the world only became global in the past 2 decades which means a lot of Russians (despite being kind) still haven't gotten up to speed on all available information including the propaganda they have been subjected.

I was born in Russia and emigrated in 1999. Till then, I only heard about the glory days of USSR and how we liberated the world of evil.

I moved to Czech Republic and went straight to school. Little did I know that Russia has a bad rep by being an occupant as well as textbooks describing completely different picture of the world. Including the facts of red army raping everything in their way to Berlin's parliament building.

If you would have grown up subject to propaganda for more than 30 years, you would probably turn out in a similar way.

Asking a person to think independently without expanding their peripheral brain thinking is super hard and almost impossible IMO. Curious if there are any scientific studies how to do it.

I am not defending people for "not-knowing" just trying to paint the picture of how it was living and growing up there compared to the rest of the world. All my friends who left Russia are against the war. Unfortunately the divide is also growing in Russia and I had to forgo several people I knew from childhood because they are adamant on war being justified and I am sure I am not the only one.

Years of brainwashing... also partially the reason why people haven't revolted already.

Thanks for that, it’s really helpful to get more insight from people closer to Russia, the people there, and countries close to it. Although I can find a lot of information online, I find it difficult to find the experiences and opinions of people who aren’t from North America. Language is likely a large part of that - I’m sure many of the people close to this simply aren’t hanging out and communicating in English in the places I am.

Brainwashing is certainly a term that comes to mind as I learn more about this, but one I have a hard time using since it can seem sort of like a slur from here in Canada. The truth is though that it seems us here in North America are somewhat brainwashed to fear and resent many parts of the world as well, including Russia. It’s scary. As I’ve tried to make sense of this by asking questions or generally discussing the current conflict online, I’ve been attacked for being pro-Putin or a Russian troll several times. I’m nothing of the sort, I never take a side, and I do my best to be objective, but many of the people I live with here are furious if you aren’t laser-focused on condemning the war and Russia. I’m absolutely opposed to the war, but banging that drum eternally doesn’t help me understand it any better.

Regardless, you’re making a great point. Questioning the war would be difficult for any human being if they were raised in a culture in which it was justifiable. How many Americans supported the Iraq war which ended as an abject failure with very little support? All that changed was that people were forced to face reality. The war didn’t make any more or less sense from the day it started. It’s easy to criticize Russia from across the world, but they’re no different from us here in Canada or the USA in that sense. As you mentioned, it’s remarkably difficult to break out of the sort of cultural mould we’re born and raised in.

Thanks for the response. I hope the friends and family you left in Russia are safe, whether they support the war or not.

English is not very widespread in Russia and ex-USSR countries to the south. Even the IT crowd among me knows very little of the language (enough to read an answer on StackOverflow or write a badly worded commit message).

And now I know why it's not being taught more widely, despite the obvious economic advantages this could provide. You don't want the population to be able to speak to their 'enemies' or read news from the other side easily. It's pretty obvious now the mad lunatic has been preparing the country for what's happening for about a decade, and he truly believed when he talked about the 'encirclement' and 'sending nukes to Florida'.

Trully Orwellian NEWSPEAK!

May be because langage is deeply tied to culture and sovereignety. foreigns langage are cultural weapons, just look how european countries are slowly but surely turning into a chimeric federation mimicing USA just by cultural war.

For exemple a simple brainwashing illustration in the west is the fact that Imperalism is synonym to weapons/war/bombs and all things related to military. While indeed the biggest treat and real imperalism is culural and linguistic.

Hollywood and affiliates are bigger treat than any US Battaillon into subverting and destroying nation.

And it's even more dangerous because im an active actor of my own subvertion, of my own languistic and cultural destruction like im forced to use English (not my native language to expose my opinion here)

>Hollywood and affiliates are bigger treat than any US Battaillon into subverting and destroying nation.

For dictators.

https://www.spyculture.com/documents-reveal-hollywood-cover-... https://www.spyculture.com/clandestime-213-homeland-security...

Read and understand your brainwashing

Culture is a threat? How many people have been killed by opera, symphonies and art galleries, compared to tanks, bombs, rifles?

If the people like a certain forms of culture more than others, well, then that's there preference and their freedom to choose. It doesn't harm anybody, and if you have something better to offer, go and tell people. Let them decide if they like it or not. That's not going to happen with tanks and bombs.

Has anybody ever died from speaking or listening to English? As ugly a language as it is, I prefer that 1,000,000 over having a grenade explode in my front porch.

If it's any consolation, there's a noticeable difference in the framing of this war from the US side. The West is slowly waking up to the fact that Putin has been waging a war for years without declaring it. It is being framed in the US media as Putin's War instead of the Russian Peoples' War. I think many recognize that ordinary Russian people are about to suffer greatly as collateral damage in his conquest for glory. Be well & stay safe.

I think you are right regarding limiting English teaching to prevent the population from consuming "enemy" media. Definitely also happening in China where they massively cracked down on English language tutoring two years ago. Probably due to the governments ongoing effort to ramp up nationalism and spread increasingly improbable narratives about current events and history.

"Definitely also happening in China where they massively cracked down on English language tutoring two years ago" - oh you really do not know How much the next two generations of China kids will be able to read in other languages!

Genuinely interested on what knowledge I don’t have, this prediction is based on?

Thanks for the kind words!

Precisely. Imagine your area of knowledge is like a circle, you think you kind of get 80% of it in terms of worldview and subjective opinions. Now some random people come in and saying you are wrong and there is this other big circle which is in order of magnitude 100x bigger which shrinks your knowledge and understanding. Its very difficult to recognise that we might not be understanding all the things. But just being open for trying to get the other side helps tremendously. Even understanding the root cause of why perhaps people even think that way?

It's kind of scary... and we tend to block the scary things. Because well... its easier.

The issue in the conflict such as this is that it's never black and white. And if someone is telling you that you are pro-putin by just not condemning Russia without hearing your reasons or just blatantly attacking you - thats very short-sighted and personally I just end the debate right there, because its not up to my standards of rationality.

There are obviously now messages coming through condemning US and EU for their actions in various conflicts in Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Kosovo etc. And again, what is right and what is wrong? Never that easy to say - all depends on your personal context.

I wish we could have a conversation something like that: - Ok lets look at the claims: - Claim X - Claim Y - Claim Z

Alright, claim Y is not that simple, because remember what happened was A, B, C.

Ok valid point, but B is also not so certain because of G.

I feel like our world really needs more education on critical-thinking and meta-learning.

> There are obviously now messages coming through condemning US and EU for their actions in various conflicts in Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Kosovo etc.

However strongly I am angered and scared by the current attack on Ukraine, I am also deeply shaken by questioning my own views. If one nation can be brainwashed into thinking that they are saving Ukraine from fascists, and they do not know they are brainwashed and think the other side is brainwashed... what am I brainwashed into? I already know I was also deceived big time (I totally believed that lie about WMDs in Iraq), what else is there? And I know that it can be argued that "western media" is more open and pluralistic, but don't Russians think the same about their media?

After seeing Brexit, Donald Trump, Covid, now Ukraine... we humans really need to figure out how to improve our ability to converge on models of reality closer to what really happens.

Anyway, thank you for shedding some light on the views from someone closer to Russia.

Western media has almost the same amount of propaganda unfortunately. And in Russian media is a small amount of truth...

Western media has nowhere near the same amount of propaganda. It is diverse and not controlled by the state. The west has many problems, and protecting democracy is a full time job.

With Ukraine, hundreds of countries are all seeing the same thing, independent journalists are watching.

There is no justification for escalating to a war which is what Putin has done. If he had sent troops into the regions already contested you could maybe argue that (even then it would be tenuous).

> It is diverse and not controlled by the state.

Western media isn’t controlled by the state but frequently acts in service to it. See Manufacturing Consent, by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky.

I haven't read that book and will add it to my reading list.

I'm not naive (but far from an expert). There are all kinds of problems with western democracy, capitalism and the media (in no particular order).

There is a vast difference between the 'western media problems' and the propaganda coming out of Russia though.

The narratives around refugees in Australia are a very good example at least one of the problems with western media. Referring to refugees as 'Illegal' has led to them being locked up off-shore for extended periods of time (6+ years in some cases).

Western media people fall into groupthink though. On the eve of the 2016 elections the liberal media were all certain that Hillary was going to take it, because all the liberal journalists only had liberal friends and they all hated Trump, so in their echo chamber, Trump was toast. On the reverse, in November 2012 Romney's loss came to a shock to his inner circle, because they were listening to their own echo chamber. Although to be honest, I don't remember now what Fox News was predicting in 2016.

We all have our biases, I wonder if journalists are so diligent to be thorough and re-evaluate things they assume to be X to make sure it's really X, but I doubt it.

I remember. I was in the US, in Mountain View, on election night for work. I went to get dinner as the election was being counted. Between that and the next day, there was just shock.

> we humans really need to figure out how to improve our ability to converge on models of reality closer to what really happens.

It's a good idea, but people with power and money have an agenda, and their agenda is often not in sync with current reality. They want their agenda to be future reality, and suppress current reality to get there. Just my opinion.

> The whole country premise is based on war.

Oh please. I'm all on board with criticizing the war, criticizing the human rights abuses, criticizing the megalomaniac Putin.

But once you go into this kind of criticism, you start the same propaganda you are criticizing Putin of. Make a difference between a corrupt regime and the country, the people. If you really want to make the point of the "whole country" being based on war, you need to be fair and do that to every country. The U.S.? Based on genocide of the natives, slavery and oppression of Africans and now playing world police bullying everybody who does not want to play along. China? Thousands of years of history of basing their power on war or the threat of it. British Empire? India?

Please, let's just not go there.

> Russians are being dragged into this against their will by Putin.

Unfortunately, this is profoundly incorrect. I know a lot of young(-ish) educated Russians, and at least 50% (by my estimate) kind of agree with Putin that "they were left no other choice".

Unfortunately more than that... see my comment above.

This is what propaganda will make. If you keep your population only speaking a language that the rest of the world does not use, it makes propaganda so much easier.

With enough determination (and it doesn't take that that much) you can make propaganda work just fine in any language. And that's they key part, it doesn't need to be perfect, just good enough. Look at Fox News or Alex Jones.

And even if you make the effort to evaluate both sides objectively, having too much information in any language doesn't work that great either. Most people aren't equipped to properly select their information sources, to parse everything and discriminate fact from feeling, propaganda from truthful reporting. To highlight how difficult it is, this happens at scale even in the most civilized of countries, with solid education systems, and freedom of speech and press.

Most people tend to choose sides which become core to their beliefs, and are reluctant to reconsider ever again. Once they picked a side it's "just" a matter of selecting the information that supports it. This is why the same person can read the same information and decide whether it's good or bad based on who did it rather than what was done? Some people read "country X bombed school in country Y" and purely depending on their "allegiance" will decide whether the school was full of terrorists or the bomb was launched by terrorists.

Whatever you do to change that will earn you the label of "other side's troll" (sometimes, ironically, from both sides) and you quickly learn that freedom of speech only works when you exercise it in your own bubble, thus reinforcing that bubble.

Yes, and the propaganda starts already before kindergarden and continues in school. And since the parents are already convinced by the propaganda, it's reinforced from there too.

true.

I hope it is not an argument againt freedom of speach?

I wonder what are your conclusion on how to tackle the problem? Because I ask myself this question regularly when I observe both sides arguing on the topic of free speach. But it’s very hard for me to be against free speach.

Education (and future to be invented tools) isn’t any magical stick, but the best I can think of for the long term.

possibly tools like: having feed filtering algorithms also implemented clients side. You’ll always be in some sort of bubble, but having more say in it (like many inventions have evolved). This of course creates new challenged, but that’s a natural thing

Propaganda works on both sides. Don't think the West and Ukraine tell's only the truth and don't think Russia tell's only the lie and vice versa.

Sure, there's propaganda on both sides. But it'd be lying if one was to say the amount and intensity of the propaganda was equal on both sides.

True, but that's propaganda against the reality.

There is one thing I do not understand and I was hoping you (or any other person who knows a lot of Russians) can explain: I hear that Russia and Ukraine have many personal connections from the past. I happen to be from the Czech Republic and I imagined that it is probably similar to our relation to Slovakia - we used to be one state, many people having friends or relatives in the other country, mutually intelligible languages, mixed marriages... I always assumed that personal ties are stronger than propaganda (if I know that my Slovak brother in law and all of his friends are not fascists, I would hardly believe the propaganda claiming that they are). My view was obviously incorrect, but how? Did I overestimate the connectedness between Russia and Ukraine? Or underestimate the influence of propaganda? Or something else?

Many Russians I know believe that Ukrainian forces have been attacking Russians living in Donetsk and Lugansk regions for the last 8 years.

And it's not completely a lie...

Haven't they killed thousands

8 millions to be precise

> I know a lot of young(-ish) educated Russians, and at least 50% (by my estimate) kind of agree with Putin that "they were left no other choice"

I grew up in South America. If you knew the kind of crap we are fed by our own very teachers that vilify american citizens as invading thieves without any care to make a distinction about the people and the government. I clearly remember during a certain heavy metal concert the keyboard player innocently tried to make a solo of the country national hymn followed by the american hymn and he was attacked by an angry mob of retards throwing things while literally chanting "Bin Laden". And yeah I was young and I thought "the yankee bastard had it coming".

I was in my 30s when I started realizing its all bullshit and the american people don't really have a say about the atrocities their government is causing in foreign lands. We've been fed with propaganda and programmed to hate people we don't know.

The regime and supporters are also Russians. If it was just Putin, there would be no war. A lone, old, crazy man would be hardly a threat to Ukraine.

When your country is attacking another country, asking for empathy is best done by relating what YOU are going through, personally, as opposed to telling stories for others.

I suppose that's somewhat metaphoric for the philosophical differences in how authoritarian rule manifests vs. whatever it is we call it in the West.

I have empathy for everyone in Russia who is going through hardship during this time.

This is surprisingly healthy view, you are probably (sorry for labeling you) not watching main stream media and get your news from more independent sources?

yes and no - I wasn't going for the empathy here.

silently losing your email address because you've missed one email in that rush sounds very very bad, esp if you're waiting for some important documents that can make or break your life/immigration/whatever.

Are you really honestly shocked? Has the news in Russia been completely opaque to the preparation to this invasion? It seems like everyone else has known about it for months.

They posted on HN. Means they must read it. HN was surfacing news about the buildup for months. They knew.

No, they did not. Nobody did actually expect invasion in Russia. Neither civilians, nor army. Putins orders came as a total surprise, he was not expected to cross the border. At worst everybody was thinking about new escalation in Donbas. The military buildup was considered a strategic negotiation game.

Meanwhile, here in the U.S., in the weeks leading up to the invasion, our Government was holding routine press conferences showing exactly where Russian forces were gathering and the threatening posture they comprised as they encircled Ukraine from three sides. Combine that with Putin’s and his foreign minister’s unrealistic demands, and the writing was on the wall. If the Russian people didn’t get the same information, that would certainly explain their surprise.

The same information was available in Russia, just different conclusions were made. Every political analyst focusing on Russian foreign policy is throwing away now years of their publications and research, because they based them on a wrong assumption (the one that Biden administration did not have - that Putin is rational).

My eastern relatives are all brainwashed by putin's pr. They only read news that come from their fb feed, and they all point to tacc/rt/sputnik/etc. I have already had so many arguments and now have asked them to not speak to me about it and just "inform themselves". They don't trust western media so I asked them to read Indian/Israeli/other neutral press

It's heart breaking to hear about people getting their lives turned upside down on both sides because a political elite on one side decided to forcefully take everyone on a horror-themed joy ride.

I see many stories of people mobilizing to help Ukrainian refugees however they can and those are great; I hope those of you getting caught in the chaos on the russian side can also find compassion from someone, in what I imagine is just the start of these coarse collateral-damage-prone punishment-minded moves (well intentioned as they may be).

It's hard for me to send my sympathies to you - my relatives are either hiding in bomb shelters, or fighting your countrymen in the east and in the south. They are all Russian speaking people who hate Russia and everything Russia stands for with passion these days. Anyway, please accept my sympathies, and find strength in yourself to do more.

Call on your government to end the war. Immediately. That seems much easier than working down your list, because it will grow longer with each day of this invasion.

I can't even call on my government to fix a pothole and this guy has to convince his dictator to let go?

I'm pro-siege, because I see Russian activists as collateral damage to stopping the machine, but it's not their individual fault they can't overthrow an authoritarian government.

It's not a government, it's a dictatorship, and if you protest or call it a war you can disappear in prison; I just read that Putin has a 15 years punishment in mind.

You might as well say "just assassinate Putin, it's much easier".

But agreed that figuring out something to do would be good

> It's not a government, it's a dictatorship,

Dictatorship is a form of government.

About two million people on the streets of Moscow should be enough for authorities to stop arresting people. Or how do you think Germany was reunited [1]? It is sickening to see people afraid of their government, the entity which exists to care for them and protect them. Economic sanctions hitting the small man might be the best chance you'll get to see that happening. The only question is how much military support the government really has, lucky for us the USSR was busy collapsing so that gave a window of opportunity.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monday_demonstrations_in_East_...

It’s nearly impossible to organize a large scale protest in Russia. All the opposition leaders were jailed or murdered and even just posting info about protests is a criminal offence. There’s also a problem with many people being indoctrinated by the state propaganda, because independent mass media is banned.

There was an ECHR decision ordering Russia to free Navalny, but it was ignored by Russian government and Council of Europe did nothing about it.

If enough people call it a war, then then there won't be room to fill all the prisons. Putin can't put millions of people in prison. He also won't kill millions of his own people. OR maybe he will, but he'll do that anyway if he launches nukes like he has warned. Your life is already under threat, you really don't have a choice or any other options but to rid yourselves of this madman.

> He also won't kill millions of his own people. OR maybe he will,

One thing he can do, is to kill a few, give it lots of press, and it'll seem to people as if they'll get killed they too if they cause problems

under which rock did you live the last 20 years>?

The entire purpose of the sanctions is to make life difficult for Russians. Do you find this unfair? Then tell me the alternative. The West have tried appeasing Putin, but clearly he is not going to stop, ever. This very moment the Russians are closing in on Kyev, ready for the slaughter. While Russians are scrambling to save their money, Ukrainians are scrambling to save the lives of their loved ones. Should the West use weapons instead of economic sanctions? This would be third world war, probably the end of Russia but more likely the end of the world.

So tell us what we should do instead of sanctions?

The express claim was that "sanctions will not be targeted at everyday Russian people, only the oligarchs"

This shit isn't even targeted at the oligarchs, only Russian people

Surely nobody promised you that sanctions would not have any ill effects on the general population? There is no way to seize Putins war chest directly, so the purpose of the sanctions is to hit him and his power structure indirectly through the entire Russian economy and society. It is an extremely crude weapon and hits Putin critics just as hard as Putin supporters, and as always the weakest suffers the most. But what is the alternative? Doing nothing or just applying mild sanctions have been tried - it just embolded Russia and let to current murder of Ukraine. Do you have a better idea?

What you all need to do is depose Putin.

Yeah right. So atm I'm sitting in Kyiv centre, central traint station was bombed in the night. Babyn Yar, Holocause memorial was bombed yesterday - it was a try to destroy tv broadcasting tower. I'm so not fucking sorry for your shitty incovinience. I managed to get wife and kids out of country. And five more women with children to Poland. All of that under bombings. Go fuck yourself, I don't remember that ukrainians were given time.

When you're in a crisis situation, the last thing one needs is even more pressing things to get done. Especially ambiguous ones like writing some pleasant appeal to support, and hoping for understanding. And worrying that if support falls back to the large print policy, then having even less time to effect a transfer.

If you're serving the like of RT.com then redirect that to somewhere truthful yesterday, but turning the screws on individuals feeds right into Putin's censorship goals. At least consider moving your deadline back to something more graceful like 60 or even 30 days.

Wait aren't they obligated to do this under the new sanctions anyway? Same goes with any company that wants to continue doing business with US and EU, am I wrong?

I may be being overly paranoid here, but consider that being made an exception of by Namecheap might draw the wrong kind of attention from the regime.

It's a bit counter productive to shut down the people that is actually trying to help. Then there is only Putins views out there... That is exactly why the west did NOT shut down internet to russia, if we do that, there will be noone speaking against Putin.

> It's a bit counter productive to shut down the people that is actually trying to help

It has been said that exceptions can and will be made.

Though I suspect it might not be as easy as just asking because if it was everyone would just ask, so those needing an exception will at least need to take time to formulate an explanation, and wait for responses, etc.

Not ideal, but IMO understandable from namecheap's position.

Are you now going to ask for the voter record of each of your customers?

Or what is the appropriate anti-Putin a customer must have to be allowed to use your company's services?

I mean, honestly, if there wasn't moderation here I would be bluntly insulting you. I will definitely boycott you from now on. Both as a person and as a company.

This whole debacle is just proof that Namecheap will make hasty, marketing-based decisions based on the whim of the CEO.

It's no longer a reliable platform, or rather it never was.

You're hurting a lot of people who are using foreign services because they want to limit their exposure to Putin's regime.

The Russian state doesn't use Namecheap. Do you really think the negatives could be outweighed by some positive here?

This is NOT a "whim of the CEO" - 82% of Namecheap's employees live in Ukraine, 1700 people. And you're expecting them to support Russians? Think again.

I'm 100% supportive of Namecheap's actions in this.

Thank you for coming out like this and doing what you are doing, at the same time: this also isn't your fight, you are like those people hiding in the Ukraine subways hoping they'll be alive tomorrow morning: collateral damage on a stage set by a madman. I suspect that there are a lot of people right now wondering if continuing with Putin is worth it so please don't stop, you may be close to some kind of resolution.

We have over 1000 people on the ground there, mostly in Kharkiv. We have been working 24/7 to try to get them to safety. While I haven't experienced anywhere near the suffering they have. I haven't slept almost anything for days trying to help in every way possible to get them to safety. Don't make assumptions.

Thank you for doing this. My country borders Ukraine, and it's very encouraging news that someone in a position like yours is taking steps like that.

I think you answered in the wrong thread (which is very easy to do on HN).

I applaud your action, but I think you should give private individuals with registered domains the benefit of the doubt for now and concentrate on companies, also I think that the tax angle is weak. The dissonance to have your employees' lives at risk from the very same Russians that are looking to get some customer support is the main factor I think.

I must have a very confused model of what it takes to run a domain registry. I don't know what those 1000+ people were doing before Putin came knocking, but I'm glad you're looking out for them.

Customer service most likely.

see: https://www.namecheap.com/careers/ukraine/

(copy/paste from the page):

> Find easy inspiration on your way to the Ukraine offices each day, whether it’s the ornate architecture in Lviv, the vibrant student community in Kharkiv, or the many waterfront parks in Dnipro. Here you’ll join the central hub for our Product, Technology, and Customer Support teams, where we work closely with our longtime strategic partner, Zone3000.

It doesn't take 1000+ people to run a domain registry: it takes 1000+ people to run an easy to use, secure domain registry service.

Thank you for what you're doing. I was in the process of gradually moving my domains off of Namecheap as they neared expiration over the past few years.

I think they might come back to Namecheap as a result of this.

The regime in Russia is much more likely to topple if Russia is quickly isolated. It is painful to individuals there, but it's also the right thing to do.

Isolation has never helped but always made things worse. The way you state that making life painful for people is the right thing to do - is exactly Putin’s way of thinking.

It's the right thing to do if it contributes to either regime change, or to a deterioration of the nation's economy leading to a reduced ability to wage conventional war.

That sounds exactly like Putin's plan - change the EU regimes so they play nice with Russia and reduce the ability of Ukrainians to wage conventional war, it's btw the official version - demilitarisation of the Ukraine.

This is the real problem in the current situation - everybody is trying outplay each other by using different kind of force (military, economical) and nobody wants to sit down, listen to each other's concerns and try to develop some acceptable peaceful solution together.

This is a reactive plan, not an aggressive plan as Putin's apparently is. It is not the same.

After the events of the last few days, it would seem you are quite mistaken if you think the west as a whole is interested in "developing a peaceful solution together" with Russia. We are first and foremost extricating our economy entirely from Russia at least in the short to medium term. I think you fail to grasp that this is now being seen as an idealogical conflict, not a conventional rivalry between fundamentally like-minded foes. At least as long as the current Russian regime is in power.

We heard Putin's nonsense concerns - he accused Ukraine leadership of being literal Nazis. The President of Ukraine is Jewish and his family survived the holocaust. Putin has lied every step of the way. And you want us to sit down so he can tell more lies?

>"The regime in Russia is much more likely to topple if Russia is quickly isolated. It is painful to individuals there, but it's also the right thing to do."

I think it is absolutely the other way around. If you isolate regular Russians from the information and will not let them communicate with the rest of the world Putin will be the first to send you thank you card.

Look at all the international crying when China puts firewalls. Meanwhile you are advocating basically the same thing.

There’s no reasonable comparison. Namecheap isn’t blocking anything, they’re simply avoiding doing business in Russia or with Russians, and are willing to make exceptions.

They're free to do whatever the fuck they want. I just told what I think about it. We do not have to convince each other

Isolation hasn't helped in the case of North Korea, so I would not be surprised if it doesn't help in the case of Russia.

The threat that North Korea poses to the rest of the world has also been minimized partly as a result of its isolation (whether self-imposed or otherwise). To the extent that the Russian economy deteriorates through isolation, its reduced ability to wage conventional war is a benefit in and of itself.

Agreed, but North Korea's isolation hasn't helped topple the regime nor improve the lives of the people living there.

While probably true, the current goal is to help the people of Ukraine. Helping the Russian people may be a good goal once this job’s complete (although I’m not sure what the current overall Russian sentiment is toward the situation).

The dictator of North Korea is protected as a useful tool for China. Is Russia willing to submit to Chinese control if they have no other options?

Yeah it did help. They have a crippled economy.

That only made it harder for the people there to topple the regime or have better lives.

Or with Cuba. In fact, has it ever helped?

Each situation is different.

I wouldn't support 75 years of isolation in Russia, but a country in free fall might lead to regime change in the not-too-distant-future. I want Putin out. I can see scenarios by which he's out in weeks, months, or a few years.

Even more, I want Lukashenko out before Belarus is a nuclear power. Right now, we could affect regime change without nuclear consequences. That option leaves the table soon.

Off topic to this thread but we also have people in Kharkov. Anything you find in terms of what we can do practically that you can forward would be appreciated.

Thank you for what you and your team are doing. OVD Info is very important project for Russian civil society and we shall not let you down.

>And, you know, those people you want to point at their own government, they won't get it.

There are thousands of people 'getting it' being arrested on the streets of Moscow.

They are getting it not because some domain registrar decided to do whatever he wants.

Every detained person will not be able to keep their domain, while the ones not busy with activism have the time to transfer them.

If you are fighting against the regime then this is only helping.

If enough people get inconvenienced that would normally not think twice, maybe there is a chance it will turn their heads to think for a second about what is happening around them.

> I'm not complaining. While I did try to fight against the regime since its beginning, I could've done more. We screwed this up, and we're responsible, and all the inconveniences we might have cannot be compared to the suffering of people of Ukraine. Just saying.

I'm so sorry you have to live under these conditions. You don't need to compare yourself to the suffering of the Ukrainian people. You're also in pain.

Have you thought about leaving? Can you and your family and friends easily emigrate?

I hope the best for you too.

"Have you thought about leaving? Can you and your family and friends easily emigrate?"

When you have real family and friend connection - you can never "easily emigrate". There is always a relative to a relative and a close friend with relatives, which adds up quickly and the bigger the group, the harder to move or find asylum at all. And which state would be willing to welcome russians, when there is so much talk again about collective punishment?

And how to get your assets out, when both the russian state as well as the western states are trying to block exactly this?

I doubt there is an "easy way" for ordinary people to get out.

Anti-Putin Russians leaving the country only plays into Putin's hands. It would be like a Stalinist purge without the bloodshed.

A giant brain drain of scientists, engineers, doctors, civil servants... would surely weaken Russia in the long term – even if Putin might celebrate it as a help to consolidating his power.

And even if it didn't result in a backlash that removes Putin from power, chipping away at Russia's economic, technology, and military/industrial strength still greatly reduces his ability to wage more wars of aggression in the future.

There were surveys years ago reporting that more than half of Russia's youth would like to emigrate. I doubt it is easy.

ETA: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-politics-emigratio...

Most of the EU countries has stopped issuing visas. We’re really stuck between two equally hostile political forces pursuing their interests.

No. Not "equally" hostile AT ALL

Here you can see how effective propaganda is. Even when the facts are there for all to see it still work to a degree that people will take those memes and spit them back out as their own.

>We’re really stuck between two equally hostile political forces pursuing their interests at any cost.

I know. It's awful. If we can't get Russia to stop attacking Ukraine with bombs, tanks, guns and missiles, perhaps we could convince the EU to stop bombing Ukraine? Oh, wait...

Or we can prevent ordinary Russians from leaving the country ruining their economy at the same time, pushing them into the civil war …

One of these things is not like the others.

Invading a country != denying visas to citizens of a country that's doing the invading.

Stay where you are and you may be murdered by an invading force != stay where you are and deal with the results of sanctions.

Both are definitely bad, but they are in no way equivalent.

As I have said in the comment below - for the ordinary Russian people which have nothing to do with the invasion the consequences are equally bad from the both sides.

such a claim is tantamount to saying ordinary Russian people are sociopaths who only value things in terms of how it affects them

I do not think that is the case

they're people, just like everyone else, and your ordinary person can obviously tell which of the two aforementioned scenarios is way, way, way worse than the other

"Equally hostile"? Seriously?

I can understand. You are comparing the situations in the both countries from the outside and situation in the Ukraine is much worse. But from the inside I have to face severe consequences from the both sides for what I haven't done, don't support and essentially have nothing to do with.

OK, I see what you mean.

What is severe about switching registrars for you?

I know the other sanctions are extremely painful for the Russian people, but I think of it like this: you are the victim of an economic war, and it is the alternative to a physical war, where you would be bombed to death.

I would say that both sides of the pain you're feeling (from NATO and from Russia) are both Putin's fault.

For my personal perspective, I do have empathy for you (genuinely), but I still wholeheartedly support the forced deterioration of your economy if it either contributes to regime change or reduces your country's ability to wage conventional war (and I believe at least one of those outcomes is a plausible consequence).

Deterioration of the economy usually leads to more war even more quickly. You can take Germany after the WWI as an example. Positive regime changes are only possible in the stable economical situation. Take me as an example - at the moment I do programming for a living. Let’s imagine I’m cut off of all the tools, customers and equipment. What would I do? I’ll probably have to work for the regime which will become the only source of the income, will get much smaller wage, work longer hours and have much less resources and influence to change the situation. We went through all this during the Soviet Union times. Such regimes benefit a lot from the isolation which allows them to turn people into slaves essentially. The idea that you can improve anything by harming people never works. Putin’s propaganda is using the same argument- they claim that they fight in the Ukraine to improve the situation in the region. I doubt you believe that.

If Russia were to be forced into an isolationist command economy as you describe I would surmise that, much like the Soviet Union, its influence and relative threat to the rest of the world would deteriorate over time, maybe leading to a similar internal collapse. For your and the world's sake I don't want that outcome, but I'd nonetheless take it over its current status as a relatively more robust economy helmed by an aggressive and violent expansionist.

Well if you want to get rid of the robust violent regimes that engage in war outside of their borders than you should start with the US. They have been involved in much more conflicts and killed much more civilian people all over the world than Russia.

So how do you recommend that the rest of the world support Ukraine's effort to not be swallowed up and pillaged by a neighboring country?

Direct military intervention is the only way to save Ukraine at this moment. Massive deployment of NATO troops near Lviv, no-fly zone etc. Given the inflow of refugees, EU can rightfully claim that the war is causing economic damage to it and intervene on humanitarian grounds. We are looking into Syrian scenario unfortunately.

Deterioration of the economy in times of peace favors war, but deterioration when war is already committed to is a valid tool to the aim of ending the war by destroying the ability to project force. This is not the same aim as sanctions in peacetime.

Thank you and all the OVD Info for your work.

Thank you for everything you're doing.

I'm not even from Russia and I'll be busy transferring my domains as well because I don't want to find out in coming days that my government farted the wrong way and I have to bare the consequences (It's one of those countries that keep abstaining from anti Russian votes so who knows if it might be clubbed with Russia in the moral court of Namecheap).

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