An unwinnable seed of Slay the Spire
oohbleh.github.io
oohbleh.github.io
Even in a simple game as Hanabi [cooperative card game; if you don't know it, look it up!] this is possible. In the basic game mode this requires incredible bad luck (e.g. the three last cards to be drawn are the three copies of the red 1); it's more likely to lose due because the first copy of a card (cards 2 to 4 have two copies each) is discarded and the second copy of that card is then the last card to be drawn (which means followup cards can not be played anymore). So the strategy of strong players involves reducing the number of (useful) cards discarded. But in some of the advanced modes, there are truly "unwinnable" seeds of the randomized deck, no matter the player's luck (e.g. the singular black 1 being among the last few cards to be drawn results in not being able to score the full 25 points).
Now a computer implementation could try to avoid most of these "bad" seeds using some heuristics. But one might argue that this isn't true to the spirit of the game and as a player, one should just accept that sometimes there is a chance not to win. It's then up to the player to decide if the game is still exciting, even when losing.
This is potentially a problem with roguelike games that do random procedural level generation. It's no fun to get dropped into a dungeon where there is literally no path to the exit.
Typically, the way they solve it is by having the algorithm for level generation ensure solvability by construction. For example, if you build level by starting with the exit room and randomly attaching new rooms to it, then it's obvious that you can always get to the exit from every room.
Maintaining that property while having an interesting level generator that makes fun levels is a challenge.
I'm curious why cursed key was mentioned in several of these seeds as a Neow trade-in. It's one of the better energy relics, particularly since you won't have a curse from it by the time you fight Lagavulin.
Is every game of Slay the Spire winnable? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23910006 - July 2020 (139 comments)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=22411...
I think this sort of thing would be valuable for randomized run-based games like Slay the Spire, not only to ensure consistency, but also to open up greater flexibility for design. Instead of using fuzzy heuristics so that nearly all seeds are solvable, you can construct a greater diversity of scenarios without risking player frustration.
Reminds me of the "every pizza is a personal pizza if you work hard and believe in yourself."
Then again, forcing yourself to look for cards that adhere to an StS archtype is a beginners trap itself.
(I can't take any credit for this. I just watch Jorbs content all day.)
This is really the key. A card always has value in context. A good player will take, for example, a Disarm, and say "this solves Book of Stabbing". The important point is that Disarm doesn't have to be useful in every fight, but it adds a solution for _some_ fights to the deck. Good players focus on the specific set of problems the deck has to solve, discounting future challenges relative to imminent ones, and add tools for those fights. Good players also tend to highly value card draw and deck manipulation to enable searching the deck for the right card when it's needed. Depending on how effectively you can cycle the deck, adding tons of cards to a deck is often a good strategy. For example, a deck with Corruption and Dark Embrace basically doesn't need to worry about the deck bloating at all because the whole deck can be searched in one turn.
An other difficulty is the ability to “switch theme” and correctly pivot from a deck able to pass act 1 to a deck able to kill heart.
one idea is having a good working understanding of "the format", all the possible cards in that version of the game, which subset of those are potentially playable in draft, and an understanding of different styles of strong deck to steer for. breadth of experience and familiarity helps in both games.
another idea is not locking yourself in too early to a particular strategy that depends on cards you haven't got yet -- prefer taking cards that can be good in multiple possible future decks, rather than picking a card that is very strong but only works in a specific kind of deck that might not pan out.
there are some major differences to sts. in sts the drafting is interleaved with the rest of the game, so in some scenarios it would be necessary to balance short-term and long-term payoff --- optimising for the best long-term deck might leave you weak and get you killed you in the short run. whereas in mtg the draft is a phase that takes place before any battles, so there's no benefit or downside to having a good partial deck mid way through draft, beyond the ways it might be completed into good final decks.
another major difference is mtg's drafting being multiplayer, your draft choices are drawn from packs of cards where other players have already removed cards that they want for their own decks. part of the game is trying to infer what kinds of decks other players in your group are drafting -- so you can avoid drafting the same thing and instead position yourself to go after a style of deck that no one else is competing for.
another subtlety is if you are going to play against the other players in your draft group or not. if so, you are incentivized to "hate draft" strong cards you have no intention of playing just so the people you will be playing against cannot field them against you. but if you're not playing against your draft group, it's optimal to let the other players get strong cards you don't want that would be a good fit for their deck, as that encourages them to keep drafting their current style of deck, and not start intruding on your style. another facet of this is that in sts you have to play every card you draft (unless you can find an option to remove it) whereas in mtg you always draft more cards than the minimum deck size, then field a deck containing a subset of them.
MtG decks always have a floor limit of card and players rarely go above.
Part of that is obscure knowledge can be acquired losing repeated, part is more obscure and you will only gain reading the wiki or watching streamers.
I think that’s inherent to the nature of deck building game and fans of the genre like it this way. I feel ambivalent about it personally but I also have played two hundred enjoyable hours of Slay the Spire over the years.
Great game! Every decision matters!
I think Slay the Spire is fairly accessible in spite of this, although “accessible” doesn’t necessarily mean one will win every run. I’ve never consulted a wiki or watched a stream and still have a grand old time playing.
Know that you are not alone brother!
So every round in StS also feels unwinnable for me haha
Still only was able to beat the Heart though with the defect, got so close with the others but never fully beat it.
Got so close with the silent using a poison build (and lucky enough to get snecko skull) but was not able to ramp up damage enough (could have used a few more catalysts I think, only was able to get one)
Forgot what I tried with the ironclad and watcher, been a few months since I played those.
In a multiplayer game you are generally forced to separate game logic from the UI frontend, which is a good practice regardless. But in a single-player game there is nothing forcing you to do so, and it can be (at least in the short term) very convenient to tie in game logic with the user interface code, as seemingly they follow the same state machine. But then new requirements pop up, such as being able to go back to review your choice, or weird slowness/strangeness that allows you to quickly press a button twice, etc.
I do love how there is no guaranteed to help card, per se. If you get Nob instead of sentries, most of these cards are if dubious use.
Fire Breathing still great for Lagavulin if you can also get your hands on a Power Through in time, esp since you have three turns to draw it before it wakes up. Not as much for Nob....unless you can also get your hands on a Reckless Charge. But yeah I'd still prob rather have something like Bludgeon for that fight. Too bad Bludgeon scales like it's falling off a cliff