Global chip shortage may soon turn into an oversupply crisis
asia.nikkei.com
asia.nikkei.com
There's nothing about electric car propulsion that requires "high end semiconductors". Auto companies have been pricing electric cars as a luxury product, and adding too much crap that has nothing to do with the powertrain to justify that to buyers.
Peoe usually think of advanced as Nvidia chips, but there are other parts.
That's absolutely not the case. The higher is the switching frequency, they higher are the switching losses in a MOSFET.
MOSFET is an electrostatic device, the charge needs to both go in, and out from the gate. The more switching, the more current goes through the gate back-and-forth.
Up to a point, you can decrease total converter loss by trading conduction loss for switching loss by increasing frequency and resizing components. After that point, you start losing efficiency again. There's a sweet spot.
I think he specifically means high-end, high-frequency power FETs, since all the rage today is about them.
I would add that there is no real need for super-high-end switches in EVs, and component size for them is not a huge premium. There is no shortage of smart inverter topologies which achieve very good size, and efficiency without using any kind of fancy GaN of SiC switches. They will not be as small as them on the lower end, but around 100kw there is virtually no difference.
I don't see anything written above that pertains specifically to any type of FET.
Your last paragraph is a new topic. It's true that Si can be as efficient as SiC and GaN, despite what the marketing usually says. But there are other benefits to new materials. They already support higher voltages with planar technology, and 3D will increase that further. Gate driving will get easier and more rugged.
There are 1000V+ silicon switches today which are not as fast, but have for, for example, very good RDSon. 1000V I think is an upper limit one would go for passenger car EV motors.
Digital FETs are CMOS made with fins or whatever to switch as fast as possible. Analog FETs are something else to make clean predictable signals from mature manufacturing processes. Power FETs are big arrays of trenches to not destroy themselves. You can't really compare them. That would be like comparing a racecar to a passenger van to a rock hauler. They're all vehicles, but they have different purposes and success metrics.
Perhaps, for the new GaN on Sapphire wafers there could be a significant manufacturing limit? Mostly, those are used for Blue LEDs today.
This kind of thinking is going to result in Chinese electric car manufacturers taking over the industry.
If people made purely rational decisions when purchasing a car, the only manufactures left would be Toyota and Honda.
Not sure if this is different regions or just dated. In Australia now, Honda is a joke. They are overpriced, offer terrible support, etc. Toyota is quality beige, overpriced but reliable, kind of like Sony TVs 15 years ago before Samsung and LG became dominate.
Just like with TVs, the Korean companies (Hyundai & Kia) are the smart money brands at least in the Australian Market.
A Kia with 150k miles is end of life, but a Honda/Toyota with that mileage is basically still being broken in, yet the Honda only has a $2k premium over the Kia.
Always hilarious when people build $100K+ off-road ridiculous trucks, as unless you're totally loaded and don't care about smashing it up, it's going to get babied off-road or just never see more than a regular camping trip or some gravel. Actual hard-core off-roaders aren't driving super-expensive rigs; they're in crapcan K5 Blazers, Suzuki Samurais, old but built jeeps, tube frame customs, and side-by-sides. $40k in a SxS will get you about what a jeep would for 2x that money.
Don't even get me started on the bro dozer poser trucks. Those just exist to intimidate other people on the road, and with bumpers so high and tires + ground clearance that could easily run over something like a Corvette, they shouldn't be allowed on public roads. If only we had real vehicle inspection like some in the EU do.
You seem to be getting upset about a situation that exists only in your (or someone else's) imagination.
No need for the snark. It is not official, and may not end up being accurate, but is what has been reported.
https://electricvehicleweb.com/jeep-wrangler-electric-new-de...
https://topelectricsuv.com/news/jeep/jeep-wrangler-electric-...
I’d love for them to not, but I don’t think it’s going to change. Tesla, their primary EV competition, charges for software-only features.
I'd absolutely kill for something like the K5 Blazer-E, but without the connectivity likely built into eCrate.
What I really want is an EV-swapped Mazda MX5...
XLT is really the base model for a personal truck. You go up from their to Lariat, King Ranch, etc.
I would never buy a Turbo car or truck... but I also would not buy the Lightning today for the same reason. I like to keep my vehicles for a long time. long term reliability of the Turbo V6 is just not there, nor the battery life of the electrics
So until then I will stick with naturally aspirated v8's
Self-park is similarly crappy. Way too slow to be of any use.
Unless you're buying new though it's certainly worth getting one with ProPilot because the price difference in the second hand market is practically nothing. I dunno if the lower trim levels come with the 360 camera either but that's a great feature as well.
Keep in mind that even a Honda Civic starts off at $22k MSRP these days.
They remain priced at $837B market cap (even after a dramatic recent rout where Elon sold the top and is now under SEC investigation for doing so), while Toyota has a $300B market cap. Toyota makes ~8M cars per year [1]. Tesla made 400K cars last year [2].
Toyota made 20X more cars and has a market cap just 36% of TSLA.
There's a few ways cultists (err, sorry, investors) justify this valuation gap.
1. Self driving cars.
2. High margins.
If you give up on self-driving and you start making lower-margin cars, you start to look an awful lot like a car company, which would mean you'd have to reduce their stock price to just 10-20% of where it's at right now. From $800 to $80-160. And that's generous, leaving room for some of their fun pet projects like the always-next-year solar roof tile [3].
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/267272/worldwide-vehicle...
[2] https://backlinko.com/tesla-stats
[3] https://electrek.co/2022/02/02/tesla-supply-chain-issues-ext...
As far as I am concerned the majority of the auto industry is a dumpster fire of incompetence. I don’t think Tesla is a good investment at this point, but a significant growth premium is perfectly reasonable IMO.
The Resell value of battery cars may drop to Zero if very purchase is a $20,000 gamble if you will have have to replace the battery.
Personally I think hydrogen fuel cells is the better long term tech, but more than Toyota will need to adopt it
However, if the batteries need to be replaced every say 12 years spending 16,500$ onto replace a 75kWh battery is less than gas prices over that time span. Further the labor is only 2,300 to replace a battery so falling battery prices could easily make that a pricey but expected repair that’s worth doing once.
Of course that’s assuming a full replacement is needed, the other option is to add capacity to adjust for reduced range. A 75kWh battery that lost 40% capacity only needs an additional 30kWh of batteries to be back to full capacity. An initial design leaving a void and appropriate hookups largely solves the problem of battery degradation.
Why so much? Almost three working days at $100/hour?? Here[1] for example is a video of a Nio ES6 electric car in China with a battery swap station you can book on a smartphone, drive into, and it robotically swaps the discharged battery for a charged one in ~8 minutes, with possibly one person working there dealing with paperwork (of all things).
Hot swapping batteries is a design choice, but it comes with real trade offs.
(It doesn't explain the "only" $2300!)
1. Those statistics typically use a very misleading definition of 'afford'.
2. It would be the exact opposite of unexpected, and even if you procrastinate you just get reduced range and the car keeps working.
And you could probably get a monthly payment plan for an electric car battery.
> The fact that its cheaper than the amount of gas you'd pay over that lifetime is irrelevant considering most Americans are not rich enough to shop comparatively like that. It's expensive to be poor.
You'd pay the new battery money after saving on gas for 12 years. Replacement batteries are not an "expensive to be poor" problem.
How do you figure? For example lets look at my buying pattern
Some One leases a new Vehicle... 3-4 years later they return it, that is when I come in, I buy a Lease Return almost every time. I keep that for 5-6 years. At which point I sell or trade for another lease return. the car is typically about 9-10 years old at that point. Someone Buys this from me or the dealer then 2 years later is hit with a $16,000-$20,000 bill
People do not normally keep a car for 12 years... So you would not have "saved" for 12 years
>Those statistics typically use a very misleading definition of 'afford'.
It is not really, as it is based on cash savings of a person to incur the expense with out using debt. If we are talking about a $16-20,000 expense on a 12 year old car, it is unlikely anyone will finance that expense has it would exceed the cars resell value. No lender is going to give you a loan to replace the battery. This problem exists today with many hybrids.
When you use debt every day, it doesn't matter very much whether you put an unexpected expense on debt. What matters is how fast you'd pay that off. If it will be gone in a couple months, that's afforded. And that's a lot of people when it comes to sudden hundreds-of-dollars expenses.
> No lender is going to give you a loan to replace the battery.
You can get a loan to buy a car, why not a battery for a car? I expect it to become possible as these things become more common.
> it is unlikely anyone will finance that expense has it would exceed the cars resell value.
Once you put in a new battery pack, won't the value go up a lot?
And basically every new car becomes worth significantly less than the loan value in the first week. This isn't a new problem.
> the car is typically about 9-10 years old at that point. Someone Buys this from me or the dealer then 2 years later is hit with a $16,000-$20,000 bill
If they've only had the car for 2 years then they've barely lost any capacity. Would they even need to replace it so soon?
But if we look at it in simple terms and say the battery is 80% dead, then shouldn't the part of the car's value represented by the battery be reduced by $14k when they buy it? Either way the answer is to consider 80% of a battery as part of the price, just like any other worn out parts a used car might have.
Actually it is, that is why most lenders require you to have Gap Insurance in addition to liability on a new Car Loan
Now i suppose "battery" insurance could also emerge as a new product, but hat really do not change my position any
>If they've only had the car for 2 years then they've barely lost any capacity. Would they even need to replace it so soon?
Are you not following the conversation? Or do you believe every time the car is resold the battery is going to be replaced?
In my hypothetical, a person buys a 10Year old car, then 2 years later they need a battery replacement costing more than the car is worth. They have only had the car for 2 years, but the battery did not magically become new when the car was resold.
> Either way the answer is to consider 80% of a battery as part of the price
The open question is if this can be accurately predicted, sure if you can pull up a report and with 99% percent accuracy show the wear level of the battery that may not be an issue.
My understanding however that this is a "best guess" and is not very accurate and predicting when a battery will actually fail, the health monitor of battery pack far from being as exact as you seem to make it out to be.
Actually it is... what?
I said it's not a new problem.
And you can use the same solution: get $3k of gap insurance on your new battery.
> but hat really do not change my position any
Why doesn't that change your position? You're saying it's hard to save up that much money, but if you can finance it like a car purchase then you don't need to save up that much money.
> Are you not following the conversation? Or do you believe every time the car is resold the battery is going to be replaced?
I am following.
I was suggesting that batteries don't usually outright fail. If you start with a vehicle at 75% of original range, you don't care as much that it dropped to 70% of original, and you could continue to ride that battery down the slope.
> The open question is if this can be accurately predicted, sure if you can pull up a report and with 99% percent accuracy show the wear level of the battery that may not be an issue.
If batteries are completely failing without much warning then that's probably a job for insurance? But you need enough people to start having that problem before that product will exist. I doubt we'll reach a point where it's a widespread problem and no insurance is available either.
But even if you can't measure the specific battery, if they've used it an average amount for 10 years, and most batteries last 12 at that use, then it should still cause a huge discount.
That is a far too simplistic way to look at the issue, and one that is at odds with how the majority of people budget their lives. So even if technically correct (and I have not done the math to confirm) it has little relvance to the resell value of the car.
Reality does not often matter, for example certain model of cars have become known for being "trash" simply because of a 1% failure rate of a part. Most people will never have the failure but the resell value of that model takes a HUGE impact because of the perception.
If electric vehicles are PERCEIVED by the public as being unreliable past 10 years old, the resell value of older battery electrics will approach zero. You need this resell market to support new sales. The exception to this is normally the "luxury" market which is somewhat insulated by resell value because the owners typically do not care. This is also why most of the battery electrics are in that market.
But if you want to replace the Camry, or the F150, Resell value is Critical as most people only keep their car for 5-6 years, and the typical car is sold 3-4 times in it life.
As it stands right now, the battery powered car needs at least 1 full replacement to get the same life of a typical ICE car. That replacement, is more expensive than an engine for an ICE, and it typically more than the car is worth, that makes these cars a ticking time bomb to most used car purchasers. Even if the cost of gas is more over the 12-15 life. That plays no part in the metric of used car value
As to the underlying perception, I expect people will see old EV’s as being a great long term investment because they have vastly fewer bits that need to be replaced. People will be talking about slapping a new battery into an EV with 250k miles, and spend less on gas and repairs as you aim for 500k miles. Especially after a few more battery price drops.
Also you talking about a Car, when new in 2012 Dollars was $93,000 (that is $114,000 in today;s dollars), that is an EXTREME deprecation rate.
For comparison lets look at the Most popular vehicle in 2012, the F150. The most expensive F150 that year was the Harley Davidson Edition @ $53,000, That same truck 10 years later sells for $28,000 or 53% of its original value
The Tesla Model S Performance at a Original Price of $93,000 selling for $37,000 or 40% of its original price. Another Key factor here as well that tips this even more to the F150, is that the majority of F150s on the market from 2012 have 150,000+ miles on them, where the majority of 2012 Model S on the market have 1/2 that or less.
The Tesla Resell value is value is already in the tank compared to ICE, and that is with its cult like status symbol. Other Battery vehicles that do not have this cult like status are FAR FAR worse, and Tesla's will at some point see a similar fate if they ever become the next Honda or Toyota
Depreciation is simply higher on more expensive cars, look at a wider selection of cars and 40% after 10 years is quite good especially on a 100k car. That said anything unusual such as the F150 Harley Davidson you looked at tends to retain it’s value much better.
That is the trend Tesla is going towards, and it is not a trend to defend your position that Battery cars can / should replace ICE
The market can not bear every car having a resell value like BMW's
There isn’t that many companies making 60+k cars to keep tossing stuff out.
The topic here, I thought, was the problem with Electrics replacing the common car, highlight luxury example is not the point and I am not sure how you believe that refute the idea that batteries will be a liability for resell value
So far you are just tossing out example of vehicle resell with out explaining how or why this refutes my position that selling used electric vehicle will be increasing hard, thus lowering their resell value, if the uncerntiy of battery replacement costs loom in the future buyers mind.
no one is going to buy a 10 year ICE car if they think the engine will need to be replaced in 2 years, like wise no one is going to buy a 10 year old electric car if they think the battery (@$15,000) will need to be replaced in 2 years.
This fact will hurt the electric car adoption, and could / will prevent it from being anything more than a luxury item for rich people, who instead of being able to sell it to a less well off person, will have to sell it for scrap making our waste problem even worse
> lowering resale value, if the uncertainty of battery replacement costs loom in the future buyers mind.
Saying batteries are a liability for resale value is no different than saying engines are a liability for resale value. High mileage cars have lower value than low mileage cars because they face more mechanical issues. The question is just how much.
> no one is going to buy a 10 year old electric car if they think the battery (@$15,000) will need to be replaced in 2 years.
This breaks down you you start running the numbers. Look at it this way, people are going to buy an EV that will last another 5 years before needing a battery at some price let’s call it 15k. Take an otherwise identical car and say it needs a 15k new battery right now is it worth 0$? No it’s worth more than that because after replacing the battery you have a car that’s going to last longer than 5 years. It’s also going to have the full range of a new car etc.
Essentially, it’s only a bad idea to replace the battery when a car with a new battery would be worth less than the cost to replace that battery. Of course the random factor could also play a role, but that’s down to design or manufacturing defects not some inherent issue with EV’s. Put another way some ICE cars had huge issues with head gasket replacement etc, but people singled out specific makes and models with issues rather than saying the ICE was simply an unworkable design.
PS: Saying it needs a replacement at some fixed point isn’t generally true. Battery’s rarely just fail, it’s normally a steady degradation such that someone can say range will be at least X miles for N years if I drive 13k miles per year but someone that doesn’t need as long a range or drives fewer miles could go much longer without replacing the battery. Presumably the market will do some filtering so people with lower range requirements will be getting great deals.
Without a growth premium they'd be valued at $40.
They're currently valued the same as the entire rest of the auto industry combined. Plus a few utility companies. Plus the battery arm of Panasonic. There's growth premium, then there's fanciful delusions.
How much did you value the Chinese manufactures in that calculation?
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1130533/global-market-va...
They may have been dragging their feet in the last few years but they are still Toyota. Not to be underestimated.
Source: https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-q4-2021-vehicle-pro...
Toyota is rock solid and stable. In 10 years you can bet they'll be making the same number of low margin cars they do today (same as 10 and 20 years ago) and making the same amount of money. (again, same as 10 and 20 years ago) Their stock price is reflective of that - there is essentially no plan or path to "growth".
Tesla is growing MASSIVELY. It's basically a certainty they'll be making 2+ Million high margin cars by 2023, likely up to 5 Million in the next 5-10 years. The stock price reflects that massive growth.
It's gambling, and people are betting that Tesla is going to grow massively, and that Toyota is going to stay more-or-less constant.
So 5-10 years from now they'll still produce half as many cars as Toyota. Assuming they can do so without reducing their margins, and that in the interceding decade, not a single other mainstream automaker will produce a competitive vehicle. That's quite an assumption.
Based on their growth trajectories, they won't reach Toyota's production rate until about 10 years from now - in spite of being valued the same as the entire rest of the auto industry put together today.
There really is no justification.
Saying that makes no more sense than saying "putting $100 on that horse to win is quite the assumption."
It's got nothing to do with assumptions, it's gambling plain and simple.
Right now, evidently, plenty of people are taking the bet that Tesla is going to do very well in the future.
They're not betting that the "company will do great in the future" - that's not really how this works - they're betting number go up.
There's a lot of ways for number to go up, some to do with the underlying business, and some to do with short-term price action gambling. The difference is the former is sustainable over time - positive sum even - the latter is not, and the market will usually drain the latter out.
Tesla is a good company. But Toyota can't really grow much more because most of humanity has ridden or owned or knows someone who owns a Toyota. Short of selling Toyotas to alien civilizations, "GROWTH" here comes off as a weak shill for TLSA stock.
IMO the key competitive advantage they have in the us/can market is their supercharger network and how they are ahead tech wise, making them %20 better cars than current competitors.
Fundamentally, no, but that doesn't mean that these cars have been designed with chip availability in mind, so at least one of the components in the cars relies on chips that are not in supply. It's not a fundamental requirement but due to how they are being built. The article is still wrong though, namely because there is nothing special about electric cars. For ICE cars, there are supply chain issues too.
edit: - here is a source -- but not the one I read in past. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chip-shortage-thr....
Yes, the article is written by a person who has no idea what he is saying
(I like assembly, but would never suggest it for a professional situation unless painted into some unforeseen corner, and assy would be the only way out.)
Hardware should be programmed like PLCs, we are just overcomplicating most hardware stuff by throwing OO & FP at it.
I know Tesla was able to pivot to different MPUs during the shortage, because the code is pretty much decently layered; so only the Low Level code to wrap the peripherals needed to change.
It's true, it's hard to replace MOSFETs when you have 1KV / hundreds of amps needs --- however, it is possible to make MOSFET arrays using lower-capable parts.
Obviously, infotainment and AI-ish tasks are not what I'm talking about.
If you are doing a new design and estimates of area, pads, packaging and volumes are in the right place, TSMC 28nm or Intel 22nm are both very nice design points.
Proven tech, single patterned mask sets, fully amortized fabs.
At typical automobile volume, it is unlikely that a sub 10nm design would pencil out.
(Edit : oops - Vision and/or ML engines for self-driving or driver assist might get there as long as the design is not dedicated to typical car volume)
However, he said heated seats (and some other luxury things) are an absolutely critical feature that couldn't possibly be omitted in an emergency situation like this. They're essentially as critical as having the steering wheel or brakes.
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/ps5/register-to-buy/
The only issue is that there aren’t a lot of PS5-exclusive games.
We grabbed a PS5 in January from Gamestop by queueing for a couple of hours.
Yes, it's absolutely stupid to have to commit to this for a full week to just be able to buy a console.
I guess I am also part of the problem. I hate the idea of a scalper but I bought one from a high school student who is scouting them out and buying them then reselling them at a $100 markup over MSRP to make money for college. They learned to code for this. I figured it was the right kind of entrepreneurship to support even if the entire supply chain issues we face are allowing less scrupulous people to profit akin to how this student is.
You're supporting a scalper. You're teaching him that there's money to be made by positioning yourself as a middle man. There's no value creation here, just value extraction.
First, there's a sense that scalpers are illegitimate and cheating the system. If Sony were to raise the MSRP themselves, or retailers did it instead, most of the anger and complaints would disappear. Honestly, they should absolutely raise the price. Scalpers are making the market function better in this case, because the "official" outlets are not doing their jobs.
Second, most people in the West are not used to thinking about real scarcity and what it means. (If there was a terrible coffee shortage, you might be happy to find a guy who will sell you a cup for $20.)
And the value being provided is the possibility of buying the PS5. Even without scalpers, chances are that someone else would have bought it. Scalping only works when the demand is very high compared to the supply.
If its out of the budget they’ll have to do something else, that doesn’t even need to be explained
PS5's are purchased between $700 and $1,000. PS5's aren't the only device with premium. Used cars have an unprecedented premium, alongside all GPUs.
The market is saying that semiconductors, especially GPU accelerated compute time is worth this much.
You can point at miners, you can point at scalpers, you neglect that every cloud compute and cloud gaming provider is building massive data centers full of GPUs as fast as they can get their hands on them at a premium too.
It doesn't take a free market libertarian to observe that its the MSRP that's wrong.
I'm discussing ethics and you're discussing economics. The problem is this obsession with finding arbitrage to extract value from the system, which is the entire point of your comment where you're defending the market because someone can profit from it without actually providing any value. I'd like to live in a world that isn't full of selfish assholes trying to fuck everyone else over all the time. I understand market dynamics just fine - I got rich from it and I'm a shittier person for it.
> I'd like to live in a world that isn't full of selfish assholes trying to fuck everyone else over all the time. I understand market dynamics just fine - I got rich from it and I'm a shittier person for it.
It is not possible to live in a market based economy and fulfill that desire. It is very easy for me to accept that. Demand for the asset simply has to dry up. It has not. People that want a PS5 can get one, at the available price. Scalpers are providing liquidity, you provided liquidity. Individual owners would be removing liquidity, likely causing greater premium in price to let one go and further hoops to jump through.
You're using market dynamics to justify morality. My point is you extrapolate this and you end up with the US healthcare system, which is completely fucking broken providing less value at higher cost. Parasitic middle men don't deserve to be compensated and we should do everything possible to eradicate them.
It's actually quite easy to live in a market-based society and not have these problems - it's called regulation and we need a shitload more of it. It's how we established a minimum wage, and abolished child labor, and even separated commercial banking from investment banking for a period of time.
It seems to me the problem is scarcity (I think we agree on this much), and people trying to profit off that aren't anything more than parasites (we seem to disagree on this).
Let's just agree to disagree.
MSRP is wrong, the console is worth around $750, this would match the inflation adjusted price of home entrainment consoles for the last 40 years. In both of our views - maybe ironic to you - it would be more ethical to diminish the returns of scalpers by having the price correct in the primary market to begin with. The only reason it hasn’t happened is because Sony doesn’t want the vocal backlash especially when they drop the price to $200 just a few years from now.
As long as the primary market chooses to misprice, all the symptoms - like all the startup partime retailers you say aren’t providing a service - are completely benign. Extracting value isn’t unethical, to me that is blaming Sony’s “make work” program (the mispricing) as unethical, taking us back to square one: charge the correct amount.
I’m not here to agree, I’m completely fine with that disagreement and it doesn’t end the conservation at all, I’m here to elaborate.
My focus was entirely on the immorality of the scalper. In my opinion, they aren't providing value. In fact they are actually reducing value, since they have to hold at least some cards in order to sell them, actually restricting supply (and that's assuming they aren't doing it intentionally to create more artificial scarcity, which I'm sure some are). All they are doing is matching a limited supply with the highest bidder. Without scalpers just as many cards would get delivered to end users, now the only difference is those end users are richer. They are constricting a bottleneck and profiting from it at the expense of consumers and arguably even GPU manufacturers.
> Extracting value isn’t unethical
We just fundamentally disagree here. Parasitism is unethical to me. I understand it's inevitable, but that doesn't make it okay.
How is the scalper different from the retailer or the distributor (assuming there's a distributor between Sony and the retailer, although their might not be)
The scalper is providing value to the retailer by paying for and taking delivery of their inventory (although, if the scalper overbuys and then returns, that's a negative); although, if the demand is so high that the product never sits on shelves, the scalper doesn't provide much value to the retailer.
The scalper provides value to the customer by having inventory available.
I personally don't like to pay more to get something now, when I could wait and get it later for less, so I wouldn't buy from a scalper, but I can see there's value provided. The market shows there's value too.
Ethically, as long as you're honest about it, and personally, that would include not returning items you overbought, I'm not sure I see an ethical problem. If something is hard to find, and you take time and effort to find it, you can and should charge a premium to compensate you for your time. Sure, people buying to resell may move forward demand, and make the item harder to find, and that feels a bit squishy, kind of like if everyone stocks up on a commodity at once, it makes it harder to find, and makes stocking up more desirable, etc, but eventually people have enough and there will be a lull and then back to normal. Does that make stocking up unethical? I don't think so, but maybe it could be argued.
yet I sit and type text and browse the web on a flagship gaming omen RTX 3070 laptop and I cant find a game to play...
Our gaming days are dwindling in this house.
There’s more games than ever coming out but it feels like the number of really good titles is still low. Kinda like movies and TV too. I guess the market is so large now it’s a lot easier to succeed with mediocre content.
If you need a recommendation, I'd go for faster than light or slay the spire. If you have a lot of time, the X series recently released a free extension for X3:TC called farhams legacy, which you can pick up for dirt cheap. But there are many games that aged well.
For the younglings - they can give themselves fully to the experience.
There's a lot of cookie cutter uninspired money grubbing crap from big studios and small, but go find what people are playing by numbers, dig past the AAA shovelware, and there are plenty of gems.
There are tons of amazing games out there. It's just like a new book series or author though. You gotta get to the hook.
What types of games do you like I can offer many suggestions. There have been plenty of amazing games in the last 1, 3, 5 years.
Now a days it's easier to make games, you just leverage an engine not invent graphics primitives. But it's harder to get noticed and make money. And easier to make small losses and harder to have massive blow outs. Games is a lifestyle business now.
Or maybe you're overwhelmed by choice, between Steam sales, Game Pass, indie games, F2P, Epic Store freebies, and more, there's always something new you can try out whithout spending much money at all.
Although I suppose it can still be hard to find something really enjoyable to play if you were obsessed with a genre that's effectively dead these days (RTS? MMOs? Shmups?). But even then, there's usually indie devs out to fill every niche they can spot
This, basically, which to me I find completely ironic, given that GAMES is literally what got me into computers back in the 80s, ran the Intel Game Lab in the 90s, worked as IT for the company that originally manufactured, packaged and shipped many many games, such as EverQuest, my best friend is an Production Director at Blizzard (with whom I worked for at Intel's game lab) and many other career accolades in the gaming space thats too lame to go into...
Whats weird, is that I ALWAYS have a high-end gaming machine... sans much gaming time...
That's left single player games, and honestly single player games take a lot of time to get started. There have been weeks now where I start my playstation, look at who's playing. Look through my library to find a game I'm willing to sink hours into, find nothing and power off the machine.
There aren't any games for it yet practically speaking? It's not like the PS2 giving you access to a DVD player or PS3 a blu-ray until games appear. Even if it can "4k" a PS4 HD game, that's not that wide an audience.
Current forecast is August 2023 so I’m sure glad I bought my 3090 at retail price and a couple of used 2080ti right around the start of the chip shortage. They’ve been running nonstop training stylegan :)
This is coming and you will soon have any GPU want on ebay for nothing.
Inb4 someone tells me they will just mine something else. Nothing else is remotely able to handle the hashpower without crashing the price of the coin.
https://i.imgur.com/TBouXrK.jpg
That is a list of coins to mine sorted by exchange volume.
This is the exact forum to discuss this.
I can't wait till your kind of vitriol has no legs to stand on.
A) content with the progress given the existence of the beacon chain
B) don't care if the merge is delayed again, delayed indefinitely, or Proof of Work never gets turned off for some reason
so although its tempting to get defensive I guess my real response is "okay? I don't care."
Climate change is more important than being excessively polite to you for years.
Don't hold your breath...
very much a global tech startup!
False dilemma.
They are proper nouns.
Beacon chain is simply the name of the network launched a bit over a year ago. It is likely intended to be named as an aspirational thing to move toward.
Mainnet is the network launched 7 years ago. Usually distinct from "test networks", testnet, and seen far beyond ethereum into all cryptocurrency networks, and inherited from the idea of test, development, staging and production environments seen in the best practices of all web projects in the broader tech sector.
This is an article about them merging.
What is "weird pretentious verbiage" about that? If there was anything odd it would be "the docking" and that article immediately says that was a former name, making it a moot point.
The chain names (e.g. "Beacon") are basically version codenames - think of them like the "Buster" in "Debian Buster".
"The Merge" is the (arbitrary) name they gave to a specific future event, because people like to be able to easily refer to things they're talking about. I assume the previous name was discarded due to political correctness.
Curious but it's hard to Google this. What was it?
Intel is releasing their own graphics cards, which is neat. It's a good time to enter the market, for sure.
Devil's advocate: won't a fork of Ethereum which keeps PoW be able to do exactly that? (for example, Ethereum Classic?)
You fundamentally misunderstand how mining works. Difficulty automatically increases if blocks are being mined at faster than the expected rate. Needing more GPUs to mine the same number of coins raises the price.
Ridiculous. Price is determined by how much people are willing to buy or sell it at, which they decide based on speculation. The amount of GPUs that will be put to the task of mining is dependent on price. Not the other way around.
I could create an alt coin that requires some arbitrarily large number of hashes to mine a single block and receive 1 coin as reward. Yet I cannot command a higher price for it, because no one wants to buy my coin.
First, you are ignoring that difficulty adjustments can happen downward too.
Second, you flipped the actually dynamic - the price swings dictate how much mining ends up being profitable, not the other way around.
You might have also confused the difficulty adjustments with the reward decreasing over time.
Thus, a coin that issues $50k worth of coin per day will have $50k/day worth of hash power. If difficulty goes above that, mining becomes unprofitable.
>Simple division yields an estimate of 13.982 million GPUs mining Ethereum on April 16 2021.
>40 million graphic cards produced in 2020
It's just 1/3 of one year's production that could be freed if people don't move to other coins. Is that enough to crush the market?
[1] https://linustechtips.com/topic/1327701-honest-question-how-...
FPGAs were never big for mining. There was like 3 months in early Bitcoin where they people seriously tried deploying them but the simple fact is they are way too expensive from manufacturer markup for mining. And if you want to make your own you’ll just end up making an ASIC instead.
0: https://twitter.com/greymon55/status/1418795735802425349?s=2...
The BOM cost of 3080Ti with Memory in itself is more than $100.
Not the same commodity, but as an illustration, I just got a bunch of 4k computer displays direct from an OEM. Normally we get stuff like this 30-60 days after manufacturing. These devices were tagged as last July and received a week ago.
I’ve been told that lots of stuff gets stuck waiting for final package assembly. (Ie the monitor stand, cable or even manual) Although chips aren’t end user products that have to have accessories, many require packaging or other subcomponents that may be lost in the mail.
Additionally, contracts prioritize certain customers, and many manufacturers don’t have good processes to deal with diversions. If you order 20,000 widgets, they may not stop shipping until to hit some high water mark. So when the US government say “emergency, ship me your widgets now”, your order gets “stolen”.
COVID response activity is winding down, so I’d venture to guess you’re going to see a lot of cancelled orders and chaos. Imo, you’ll see prices of consumer facing IT gear crash in the June-August timeframe as schools and students are flooded with gear, only to surge again as component makers retool.
Also, like gas prices (quick to rise, slow to sink), I think you’ll see manufacturers keep prices high in the many markets that are controlled by little cartels. Why sell Ford some chip for $1 when they are paying $12 today?
That's a very good point. When you're competing to get your part selected for a new design, you want to sell it cheap, but once they've done all the work of incorporating your part and testing it, you want to make it expensive. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
This will almost certainly have flow-on impacts to the broader shipping and commercial airline market, and further screw up delivery of your monitor’s user manuals.
Same. When looking at DigiKey and Mouser they've got confirmed dates well into 2023 for loads of parts.
Here's a random example I was looking at yesterday[1]. Sure they have a few in stock, but once those are gone the next batch is due next summer.
edit: another example[2], no stock and 39k due next summer.
[1]: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/TLC59...
[2]: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/TLV62...
However, an "oversupply" crisis means that either:
- prices falling, meaning costs aren't covered;
- equipment isn't running 24/7 as intended, leading to higher costs
This means businesses go under. There's a firesale which is nice, but the structural damage is far more harmful.
Personally, I'd like to see this industry a little bit more socialized. I'd like my chips produced in the USA, even if they cost a little bit more, so we're self-sufficient. I'd also like the supply chains to be in the US. I think the same goes for the EU, China, and hopefully soon, India and Africa. Having five independent supply chains costs five times as much, and I understand the efficiency argument for having just TSMC (and maybe Samsung or Intel), but I think both COVID and Ukraine highlight the risks of systemic failure.
We're just a little too over-dependent on each other.
I also wouldn't mind if my taxes paid for some excess, unused capacity, as they do with food production. That's also less efficient, but gives resilience.
We don't need to be self-sufficient everywhere, mind you. Most goods aren't essential. I do think each region should be self-sufficient for food, medicine, and now, ICs.
After Ethereum switches to proof of stake, global demand for GPUs will plummet as GPUs are uncompetitive for BTC mining, and beyond BTC, ETH is by far the largest remaining proof of work coin.
When normality is restored, I'll be happy to finally upgrade.
The good news here may be two-fold
1) the existing group of public chains have matured greatly and their network effects are quite strong now. It is no longer so easy to start a new chain
2) virtually all new chains are PoS because it's understood to be significantly more secure and less expensive vs. PoW
3) public chains take years to grow, and right now, there is no PoW public chain on my radar that has a chance of generating nearly as much mining demand as Ethereum (and Bitcoin but ASICs)
For those reasons, the idea of a new public chain appearing from nowhere and impacting GPU demand seems in practice unlikely to occur.
PoS security relies on the integrity of the stake — and the integrity of the stake relies on the “security” of the PoS system. It’s an intractible circularity problem.
Yes, a large sample of recent altcoins have shipped PoS, but this is no more relevant to a PoW v PoS security debate than a modern top 40 “hit songs” chart is to a debate over Beethoven v Bach.
Why sell a GPU for a fraction of the price, when you can just switch over to another coin and make 50-90% of the money you were making still.
In my view, this site is strong evidence for the thesis that demand for GPUs will plummet, here's why:
1) If we tweak your link to sort by Market Cap, we can see the next biggest coin to mine after ETH is has only 1% of ETH's market cap https://shorturl.at/lxLS5
2) These smaller coins do not have the capability to automatically or naturally grow bigger market caps, trading volumes, and buy-side demand just because ETH switches to PoS. Mining profitability ultimately comes from a coin's buy-side demand, which is proportional to many things-- fame, developer activity, etc.-- and none of the PoW chains in that list are anywhere remotely close to "breaking out" and growing proportionally with Ethereum, or, say, Solana. How do I know this? Well, I'm an insider that focuses all of his time on ethereum and web3, you'll have to take my word for it :)
> These smaller coins do not have the capability to automatically or naturally grow bigger market caps, trading volumes, and buy-side demand just because ETH switches to PoS.
What would they need to cross that barrier? For example, don't all coins have the ability to manipulate trade volume by sending money between owned wallets?
Do you have insider knowledge or just a quality crystal ball?
Here's an overview
Dec 2020: proof of stake launched in production, but isn't yet used to secure ethereum, it runs in parallel
October 2021: the last major upgrade to Ethereum before switching to proof of stake went live in production
Today: proof of stake "Merge" testnets are live, all core teams are 100% focused on the merge, regular progress reports are nominal, etc.
Is there some way you can bet against that claim?
But yes, that's expected. After supply-line shocks shortage and oversupply follow each other. If people play their cards right, they get a quickly decreasing amplitude on those crises, if they play wrong, they get always increasing ones until a lot get bankrupt.
The chip manufacturers seem well aware of the problem and to be playing it correctly. I wouldn't bet on the oversupply crisis being nearly as large as the shortage.
Turn off the news and you’ll be much happier. Remember they only make money if they’ve scared you into watching.
Rather, be informed and watch whats happening with a critical mindset. Ignorance may be bliss but its also irresponsible.
Now I think it needs to allow for exceptions for events like now with Russia invading Ukraine.
Cut NYT, CNN, The Guardian and all the rest, you'll be happier and will be better informed
(Joke explanation: my username is Dutch for 'time traveller'.)
I haven't watched the news for years, or read the newspapers. I do real articles from magazines and newspapers and books and such (from HN, among other places), which are far more useful. I don't really know what's going on in Ukraine right this moment, but most will have forgotten that in two weeks time anyway, so what's the point? Instead I spent some time reading up on the context a few weeks ago.
The news is also strongly biased towards negative events. The classic example is that "plane crashed" is big news, but that planes are actually very safe. "Man spills pint and gets punched" is news. "Man spills pint and it's all fine" is not. etc. It's not a particularly good reflection of reality.
what a privileged thing to say
Perhaps a more reasonable approach is reading the news once a week. You stay informed, but it's not something you worry about daily.
It's on the individual to find a happy balance of media consumption for their mental health in the same way it's on the individual not to eat candy every day for lunch.
Yeah! Imagine being so privileged you’re allowed to turn off the news and feel happier without mom and dad grounding you from the internet or the government aiming a nuke at you in response, which would thereby prevent you from typing words into a text box and clicking the Reply button when you’re done writing your thoughts.
That would suck because then someone else wouldn’t be able to come along and not actually provide a counterpoint to your comments, but instead just write “what a privileged thing to say”, undoubtedly smirking while simultaneously sipping a latte and clicking Reply to submit their effortless snarky reply from their $5K/month apartment located in the heart of some tech city.
I think CS Lewis explained it well when the atomic bomb was created:
> In one way we think a great deal too much of the atomic bomb. “How are we to live in an atomic age?” I am tempted to reply: “Why, as you would have lived in the sixteenth century when the plague visited London almost every year, or as you would have lived in a Viking age when raiders from Scandinavia might land and cut your throat any night; or indeed, as you are already living in an age of cancer, an age of syphilis, an age of paralysis, an age of air raids, an age of railway accidents, an age of motor accidents.”
I have absolutely no way of impacting events in the Ukraine, even if I decide to contribute to a charity or try to influence my local member of parliament there is still absolutely no benefit to be gained by anybody (except perhaps the media) of me consuming this coverage.
I can however benefit significantly by avoiding news reporting that is going to continually trigger primitive fight or flight instincts and leave me in a high state of stress.
Because we can completely fill our days with what's going on in Ukraine and yet be able to do very little about it at an individual level and I'm really not sure that's good for someone's sanity.
Instead of watching/reading news for hours. Take 30 min to donate some money and email your representative in Congress on your beliefs. You’ll have done way more to help your cause than watching news and you get your day back.
For me personally, I find the war to be incredibly distracting, because my attention was almost constantly drawn to it. But throughout the past few days I learned a few thing:
The situation on the ground does not change that quickly, fresh reports are often wrong or fabricated. But most importantly: I've gotten myself to be constantly obsessed over a distant war which made me forget what I actually wanted to do over the past few days.
I'll continue to follow the news, but not every hour and minute, and I'm just thankful a place like this exist.
As someone already mentioned, the media loves to manipulating this state to their (profit) advantage.
Would love to have a level headed conversation about this, assuming someone here can address, what is, in my estimation, a non-issue.
Having a glut of a product or resource destroys manufacturing capability as employees get furloughed, factories shut down, and talent is lost. ...it then creates a shortage when demand picks up and so on.
Markets are good at reacting if the future is predictive, but if it is unexpected, then there is damage in both shortages and gluts.
Importantly, the more complex and deep a supply chain is, the more unpredictable and magnified the bullwhip effect becomes, even when you expect gluts/shortages. This is because every participant in the chain attempts to cushion themselves from the shocks by stockpiling and timing their sales.
In spite of political, personal, or professional neglect, (don't care which one) chip companies are posting gargantuan earnings YOY and seem to be doing fine.
On the other hand, my sibling can't afford a car or a non-pre-built computer.
I guess it's not clear in your post, but who exactly are we looking out for here? The furloughed talent? The "market"?
And regardless, how is that my problem?
Again, I would love to have a level headed discussion about this, but please be honest about who truly loses in an oversupplied market.
BTW, because I see this here a lot: just because the whole "it's more complicated than you think" rationale is not a commonly accepted logical fallacy, doesn't mean that it's not bullshit all the same.
However, the critical flaw of highly rational actors is that their actions always incur a reality tax, and, more likely than not, they're nowhere to be found when the bill comes.
You're argument assumes we have anything close to a healthy economy now. And in another world, you'd be right. However, that not being the case, your argument is moot at best and disingenuous at worst.
However, what the article is talking about is the risk of a longer term oversupply situation at the foundry level. If that happens the result will likely be even more consolidation. The downside to you as a consumer would be lack of innovation and flat to higher prices over time.[1] Once you get below a handful of players in a market, the worse your options as a consumer get.
[1] see Intel CPUs for much of the 201X's
It's arguable that they've been doing a bit of this over the past couple of generations... it would get far worse in a chronic oversupply situation.
We end up richer on paper and poorer in reality.
Volume 1 Marx would say that the unused capital still represents a source of exploitation. Volume 2 Marx and beyond would say that the problem lies in the circulatory sphere and that it is the money capitalist that is threatening the productive capitalists.
It's not "pent-up" demand, it's new demand. It would be "pent-up" if people hadn't been allowed or able to purchase before, but now they are. The shifting of labor and education online, if it is a major factor at all, would be creating new demand.
"The stockpiling that we saw in 2021 has also resulted in transportation bottlenecks."
There are many reasons for the transportation bottlenecks, but stockpiling is a best a minor one, and more likely not really a reason at all. If anything, it works the opposite way, with transportation bottlenecks resulting in stockpiling, as buyers know they cannot assume it will always be available to buy Just In Time.
"Structurally, electrification, such as the mass production of electric vehicles, and digitalization need semiconductors, mostly of the high-end variety..."
Vehicles, in particular, need a lot more semiconductors that are _not_ "high-end", which is why Intel couldn't use its spare capacity to help out the auto industry as much as they wanted to; their fabs were actually too modern to make the higher-voltage, larger-dimension semiconductors that the auto industry needed, mostly made in older fabs.
Ok, three factually inaccurate statements in a row, I am giving the rest of the article a pass.
What will be more interested in is how the supply chain changes and will we see a more cautious approach to just in time, offloading warehousing to suppliers or will we see a more granular balance. So that will be interesting going ahead and may well see initial oversupply delayed filling up those buffers.
The vehicle I want to buy does not come with the chip for heated seats or parking sensors, because they simply do not have enough of them. You can buy that vehicle without those features, and at least with the heated seats, they promise to retrofit them "at some future date." All of the models that got made before the cut-off sold super quickly, and I'm just waiting to buy until the vehicle is complete at signing.
Only if they can afford them and can justify the purchase. People want many things that for various reasons they don't acquire. It may be cost (units would have to be sold at a loss to get down to consumer-comfortable pricing), it may be that it's part of a larger system. For me to get a new AMD CPU I'd also need a compatible motherboard and, possibly, different RAM (either for physical compatibility or to get an actual performance improvement, even if my old RAM "works" if it's sufficiently slow it's a bottleneck that makes the purchase not worthwhile to me).
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/global-enterprise/chip-shor...
Consolidation is a fairly easy bet to place though from a 2022 POV, so I guess GP (and I) are predicting cold during winter.
https://twitter.com/AntonovCompany/status/149796783633704140...
Of course, this is the least important thing to move in that plane and probably the easiest to find alternate transportation for.
Then you are very lucky. My life was certainly easier before supply chain disruptions.
Check the graph at the bottom of this article https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/semi-capex-f...
This is how the whole economy used to work.
IMO the more interesting part of this article is the prediction that a bifurcation will take place. Still a good thing, but interesting that, as of now, most media talks about the "chip shortage" in terms of "Is there a shortage or not?" rather than a more complex model.
Literally 4-5k saved off every car if you order direct from the manufacturer.
No company is going to hoard multiple years worth of inputs. Supply has remained high in semiconductors too, it's more of a demand than supply problem. But of course, elevated demand and normal supply leads to shortages just the same as normal demand and shortened supply.
Retail Sales:
JIT allowed a lot of different manufacturers to “share” stocks, by keeping inventory in a supplier instead of in house.
In the end we traded in risk tolerance for better efficiency, and most companies are now doing the opposite trade.
> No company is going to hoard multiple years worth of inputs.
I actually work with companies who have done this.
If you look back at what many were saying at the start of Covid you would have thought we would have all been eating our neighbours by now. The reality has been completely different, an artificial shortage of toilet paper and a slight tightening of supply on consumer goods. If anything this tells me our supply chains are quite robust.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/02/25/ukraine...
I'd be surprised if it even made a half percent dent.
Maybe it really is that easy. I don't know. But Yandex isn't buying computers off Newegg anymore. That's for sure.
Though it will still increase cost to Russia with another middle man involved.
Semiconductor fabs take years to start production.
I'll take this any time. I am eyeing new server and laptop but prices suck at the moment for my specs.
/s, I think...?