Accounts to Support Ukrainian Army Directly via Bank of Ukraine | Hacker News Reader

Accounts to Support Ukrainian Army Directly via Bank of Ukraine

bank.gov.ua

144 pointsrmind173 comments

THE KILLER OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN; COMMUNIST-PUTIN! DESTROYER OF GOOD, GOD FEARING PEOPLE; WHO NEVER DID; "ANYTHING TO HIM!" WILL BE STOPED!!! EVEN IF THE WORLD HAS TO POINT EVERY SINGLE NUCLEAR WEPON, ON EARTH, AT HIS HEAD! TO DISAMATE HIS GENETIC MATERIAL! FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH!

Thanks for the link - just sent 1500 euro! Doesn't matter if it helps or not but the message to Russia should be clear: this is NOT ok and the rest of the world won't tolerate this!

I have a bit of a problem donating directly to the army. I understand the need to defend but it does end with deaths and bloodshed. I ‘avoid’ the problem by donating to medical supplies as well as simple food stuff for people in Ukraine. We also plan to shelter a Ukrainian family in our house once they get here (we live in Poland)

It is understandable. I personally choose to donate to UNHCR's Ukraine emergency program (https://giving.unhcr.org/en/ukraine/) while I still have access to my finances.

I have a friend with family who has escaped from around Lviv to Poland Thursday (so they are already in the country). They should have finances to pay for themselves, but asked him just in case.

This is an interesting dilemma I've seen on multiple occasions and resulting in almost the exact same position. Many people who work in defense industries, plenty of my former colleagues among them, choose to go into medical tech and other healthcare adjacent fields, either as penance for damage caused, or because it's a less morally grey but still objectively useful way to apply their skills.

I too have a problem with donating to any army. Especially if you look at money and a tool for motivation or a tool for voting. Like it's often said vote with your wallet. From those aspects giving money to any army means you want more of what they're doing and while armies do help in natural disasters their primary purpose generally results in deaths of people. Thus in a way you're motivating and voting for more deaths...

I know that many it not most don't look at money like that, but I do, which is why this frightens me.

If anyone ever comes to overthrow your government, bomb your home and kill your family I hope somebody, somewhere is willing to take up arms and fight to protect you.

Sorry, I didn't express myself correctly, what I was trying to say was if you want to support people in need then support organisations that are trying to help people with food, shelter and medical aid.

For the existing humanitarian crisis aspect, that is great, but prevention requires the support of their army.

Russia invaded Ukraine because Putin thought he'd have a cheap and easy victory. If Ukraine was obviously well armed enough to make a cheap and easy victory obviously impossible, he wouldn't have invaded.

Not sure if satire/sarcasm (I don't really know what it's called in English), but to anyone reading the comment above, that's not the actual reason for Putin's actions, this isn't Putin's pet project. There are actual reasons behind, which paint the real picture. Don't get me wrong, it's a FACT that Russian forces are in Ukraine, there's no way about it. But people often forget that Putin has been at the helm of Russia for more then 20 years, he's not as dumb as western media show him as.

EDIT: To people downvoting, Russia is attacking Ukraine because of USA and because of the agreement between Ukraine and Russia.

Putin's actions make more sense if you consider the invasion as serving his interests and not Russia's. None of this is going to play out in the favor of Russians, regardless of how the battle goes.

Putin has been characterized, by some in the US, as genius in his timing. I'm not familiar with any propaganda portraying Putin as dumb.

Younger versions of Putin certainly used to match his chess master reputation. However in the light of this war, people will update their evaluations of him. It’s likely that he has simply gone senile.

Although I understand the rationale for people that do not want to give to an army, I would say in this specific case (no_army == no_country)

Yup. The nation state is premised on the idea that the state has a monopoly on violence. When the state no longer has a monopoly on violence it’s not a country anyMore.

>> Thus in a way you're motivating and voting for more deaths...

I see your point. But the Ukranians do not want to live under a Putin-puppet government, and they are willing to pay with their lives - but could use more equipment against a (on paper) superior military force.

The least I can do, is to help buy them some bullets.

Yeah if we had admitted Ukraine to NATO this war would never have started.

Medics won't stop tanks.

No, but medics are necessary too, and they contribute to the defense of the country in their own way.

Let the peaceniks contribute to medical and food, we just use the money we didn’t spent on medics and food on arms.

Any port in a storm.

What Ukraine needs is nukes which won’t be sold to them.

They had them, but gave them up for certain assurances iirc

I donated to that account and to a refugee org in the Netherlands. Anything helps friend

They are fighting in self defense, the moral cost belongs to the aggressor and no one else.

This is a phase that many Ukrainians went through in the past 8 years. We've been donating for medical and humanitarian needs but with time everyone understood that you have to destroy enemies to save lives. There's no other way.

I’m American, but lived in Kyiv for years and was lucky to get out just before the war started.

I was hesitant at first about donating to this fund as well, but the reality is that this is an existential struggle for the Ukrainians. I’m not willing to join their international brigade and pull triggers myself, but I’m down for anything short of that to help kill and demoralize as many of their enemy (which is my enemy also) as possible in the shortest amount of time.

For as long as I’ve been alive there has been either no moral justification for wars America fought or at best a dubious justification. So the idea that one should be anti-war and pro-peace is deeply ingrained. But when an aggressor invades with the express goal of eliminating your sovereign nation and subjugating your people, ferocious violence against the enemy is a moral course of action, as is funding such violence. At least in my personal moral code.

In addition my company is doing all we can to support our team in Ukraine. I hope the combination is enough to help preserve a free Ukraine. If it’s not I don’t want to spend the rest of my life asking myself if I could have done more…

I wouldn't have a problem with my country using tax money to defend Ukraine militarily, so I decided to donate as the next best thing. 1000 € sent.

English link:

https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-sp...

@dang, can you update the link, please?

Why would anyone send money to a foreign country army? You elect your politicians to do that for you using taxes.

What you elect your politicians to do and what they do are often not overlapping.

Regular people are driving to the border here in Romania to help out refugees and donate food/clothing/medicine because the government isn't doing enough.

Everyone is free to choose if and how they want to help (or not).

Maybe you think your goverment should be doing more than it is. For instance, we don't know if Germans were really happy that their country wasn't even onboard supplying arms to Ukraine till yesterday.

Hiroshi Mikitani, founder of Rakuten gave $8.7 million to Ukraine. Maybe he thought his government is not doing enough. So, even ordinary citizens might feel the same.

German here: Yes, not happy, quite furious, sent them a bit of money via bitcoin.

Not only has Germany not supplied weapons until yesterday, it has even prevented other NATO countries from sending them weapons that they received from Germany in the 1990s. Thankfully our government finally caved in yesterday.

What can happen if this monster will start loosing? I fear very much he will not hesitate to press the red button. It is foolish to think he is not ready, just listen what he said about nuclear weapons before. Now, totally isolated, with destroyed economy, without people's support anymore.

Let's hope the people lower in the chain of command will do the reasonable thing and refuse the order.

He will keep playing this card as long as it keeps working. Appeasement with a power like him is not an effective long-term strategy.

> don't know if Germans were really happy that their country wasn't even onboard supplying arms to Ukraine till yesterday.

I guess Germany was under pressure from Putin regarding their gas dependency from Russia. The decision to deliver weapons after all was also a decision to accept Gas prices rising 10x fold next winter. Germans will pay quite dearly, since most of them use gas for heating.

Yes, Germany was under pressure - and Germans including me were disgusted that our politicians caved in to that pressure, when another European country is getting invaded and so much more is on the line.

I just find it a bit ironic (in a very sad way) that Germany and Russia switched places with regard to what happened ~80 years ago.

My brainwashed Russian relatives think that their army is there to "protect" the population from the "modern Nazi", all the while not being able to see that their self-appointed czar is the actual Nazi (which I don't think is an exaggeration anymore).

To be fair: once Putin invaded, Germany came around.

What many Germans don’t seem to realise yet is the massive changes they are in for. Some consequences are evident already now, e.g. gas rationing next winter. Many other, still hidden consequences will emerge in the next four weeks as the sanctions kick in. German and Russian economic ties went deep, their rupture will not come easy.

The price might be worth paying but I hope all those Germans who were angry at their government for not delivering weapons sooner will accept those consequences with the same enthusiasm.

That anger should be directed towards those that ignored and strengthened ties to Putin and his friends. There are many risks when supporting an autocratic regime. Germans will see these risks play out.

I think there are 2 independent problems for Germany:

Not delivering weapons to any war zone has been a holy principle for German politics since 1945. Never war again war has had a strong foothold. Even now I grown up in this tradition would ask, is it better to lose the war or more lives. Putin might invade the country now, but he will not stay there forever. Most of Eastern Europe and the Baltic countries show that. Even Eastern Germany.

Germany's dependency on Russian gas is a different problem. They don't dare to do much. Now delivering weapons might prolong and intensify the fights. If the pipeline (it passes through Ukraine!) gets destroyed they don't need to dare to stop financing Putin's war. They will need to solve the problem how to heat their homes.

(German living abroad.)

That is why Germany’s decision to deliver weapons is much more dramatic than many Germans realise. It is the admission that their previous policy of “Wandel durch Handel” (roughly meaning to gain influence in a country by forming tight trade links) has failed.

Today it’s Russia, but they will have to follow through with China, too, plus a few other countries (gulf states e.g.).

If Putin gets Ukraine he'll definitely stay there forever. He will place his army alongside eastern Polish border and NATO will be forced to fortify the other side.

Germany along with other countries of NATO will be forced to militarize which will cost way more than abandoning Russian exports.

Ukraine is fighting now for less militarized and endangered Europe.

I agree that sometimes it's better to loose a war. Just not this one.

> Ukraine is fighting now for less militarized and endangered Europe.

I hope somebody else can appreciate the irony of this sentence like I do, given that the cause of the conflict is military NATO expansion towards east.

The cause of the conflict is that NATO did not expand to Ukraine. Putin would've never risked it if they were members.

Putin wouldn't have allowed them to become members. And this is effectively what is happening here: Putin is unfortunately destroying Ukraine, and effectively making sure that any possibility of joining NATO is long gone. This would have just happened earlier if Ukraine had tried to join NATO.

Nah, he is just ensuring Ukraine gets support to join immediately, and inflicting enormous damage on Russia in the process. He'll be remembered as "The Man Who Ended Russia in a Week". Russians are going to be embarrassed about their nationality for the next 100 years at least.

There is no chance Ukraine will join NATO in the short term (and possibly ever), let alone immediately. This would trigger an Article 5 invocation that would compel NATO members to send troops to Ukraine, escalate the conflict even more, possibly leading to a global war, which no one wants to do.

Putin has now demonstrated the need for NATO membership to Ukrainians. If they get a choice, my bet is they would join eagerly.

Yes, but this point is kind of moot given that it was NATO membership expansion in the first place to start the tensions.

You can look up articles from 2008 and see that even Germany (Angela Merkel) was adamantly opposed to Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO, because there was no credible threat from Russia and she knew this would create instability in Europe. The fact that there was no credible Russian threat is easily confirmed if you do a Google search for "ukraine russia" before 2008: you hardly find anything noteworthy. The whole narrative only changed around 2014.

Now we're at the situation where the Ukrainian people, and also Russians and the entire Europe (at least economically), are paying huge costs because we couldn't avoid seconding foolish US foreign policy choices.

Ukraine wasn't in immediate danger because there used to be pro-Russian government. But the citizens of Ukraine want democracy, freedom, don't want corruption and want to be included in the Western sphere, and as a sovereign state, this is up to Ukrainian citizens only.

All this bullshit about "NATO expansion eastward" that "Putin warned against" - LOL, this is no "NATO expansion", this is "free sovereign states joining NATO by their own volition to get protection from aggressors", and Putin's opinion doesn't matter at all and his "warnings" only reveal him as the bully aggressor he is.

His place is to sit home and accept what Ukraine's elections decide. He should've thought out his actions and shouldn't have done things that made Ukrainians want to join NATO and EU if he is afraid (more like paranoid) of NATO being too close.

> You can look up articles from 2008 and see that even Germany (Angela Merkel) was adamantly opposed to Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO, because there was no credible threat from Russia

This shortsightness is exactly what got us into this mess. It was crystal clear in 2008 that this is what Russia will do if the pro-Russian government withers away, but business was more important to Germany.

> The whole narrative only changed around 2014.

No, you're very out of touch. Ukrainians wanted freedom, democracy and end of corruption since forever - but they were silenced by the old government.

Trying not to upset an authoritarian to ease tension will only work in the short term. I'm sure Putin felt threatened for many reasons, both internal and external to Russia. Both valid and imaginary.

It seems that many in Europe hoped to turn a blind eye in return for economic success. I hope much can be recovered and ties restored, but probably not while Putin is at the helm.

Ukraine didn't have ambitions to join NATO before Putin attacked it for the first time in 2014.

Stop swallowing Putin propaganda wholesale.

You can watch this to familiarize yourself with historical context of Russia-Ukraine relationships: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK-yJD_fAtk

> Ukraine didn't have ambitions to join NATO before Putin attacked it for the first time in 2014

That's just not true.

> NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO.

This is from the 2008 Bucharest NATO meeting official declaration. [1]

[1] https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_8443.htm

I see.

Whay I fail to still see is how it in any shape or form justifies what Putin is doing.

Rather than a justification, I take it as an explanation of why Putin is doing what he's doing, as opposed to the other, often circulated, explanation that he just went crazy and invaded Ukraine for no reason.

I find it way more plausible that he just believes that Ukraine is a birthplace of Russia of mythical and religious significance and Ukrainians are not a separate nation.

It explains way better why he decided wage war that will be devastating to Rusian economy that wasn't doing so well already.

This and access to Ukraine resources because resources is what Russia earns their money from.

That's why he believes sanctions won't be such a big deal in the long run. He thinks Ukraine resources will balance out costs of war.

Talking about NATO agression on Russia is pure and simple propaganda. NATO is a defensive alliance and there's no way USA or anyone could convince other members to invade Russia in peace time.

You seem to fail to see, that the so-called "NATO expansion towards East" is independent, democratic countries, voluntarily joining a defence-alliance.

To large parts of Eastern/Northern Europe, it is either be part of a pretty good (but admittedly imperfect) NATO defence alliance - or have your sovereignty threatened by Russia.

You seriously think the Baltic states would be independent today, if they had not gained NATO membership?

From the Russian point of view that's your mortal enemy that has expanded for the past 20 year and now it's knocking on your borders. How would the US react were Canada, an "independent, democratic country", "voluntarily joining a defence-alliance" with Russia that allowed Russian military to place missiles right on the US border?

I think they would make a deal that no such missiles will be placed there. No need to destroy Cuba.

So you're already admitting that the US would try to influence these two independent countries. What if Cuba refused to accept the deal?

It will be a cold war situation. If one side brings nukes to the border, the other side will do so as well. A possible deal would be something like NATO and Russia removes their nukes from border countries. And maybe make another deal to remove the amount of nuclear warheads.

> I agree that sometimes it's better to loose a war. Just not this one.

If Ukraine can stand up (which I'd hope, but don't really believe) and Putin thinks the same way you think he will use nuclear weapons. And he has said clearly that he thinks the current Ukraine is a threat to the survial of Russia. Which is of course nonsense, but that doesn't matter.

The better support Ukraine gets the closer we are moving to a nuclear war. I'm not sure to say don't support them. But don't underestimate the danger of Putin.

If Putin throws nukes in Europe then the radioactive fallout will reach border countries including russia. And it could provoke a nuclear reaction from NATO, because nuclear fallout over NATO states could be considered as attack.

Sure. But I am not convinced that Putin cares.

As said in many places, Putin will go to history the worst aggressor in Europe since Hitler already. He might have committed economic suicide for Russia already. So don't be so sure he doesn't extend the suicide any further.

If Putin already has decided to end the world in a nuclear war, then there's not much that we can do about it.

But if Putin would be seen as a brutal murderer by many russians, then chance are that there are some who could try to assassinate him, like there were many assassination attempts to Hitler.

Because we want to help them.

I sent a small sum because you don't "elect" politicians in my country. Additionally, the government is currently between a rock and a hard place — they don't openly condemn the invasion, and, being highly dependent on Russia (which hopefully is going to diminish greatly in the coming years), cannot send any help to Ukraine. Otherwise, we will be next.

Bitcoin is an option via “Повернись живим” fund. This stuff goes directly to defenders ASAP. They focus on more high tech things like drones and thermal vision.

You can find requisites and statements since 2014 here:

https://savelife.in.ua/en/donate/

The Ukrainian government is also accepting donations via Bitcoin directly.

https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1497594592438497282

Thank you. At the moment they are all connected and cooperating very tightly, so any option is good

Please, post link to the official site. Twitter is not an official site, it's full of scam.

Twitter.com/Ukraine is official.

Please help the Ukrainian army

How do I volunteer to provide shelter to Ukrainian refugees? I have three unused bedrooms.

Where are you located?

Depends on the country. There might be visa requirements to enter it.

Ukrainian citizens are no longer allowed to leave freely. Men are not allowed to leave, that seems to be confirmed. According to some sources women working in certain sectors like health care either, not sure whether that is confirmed.

Are Polish border guards actually turning back each and every 18-60 male Ukrainian fleeing for their lives?

I have no clue, but I wouldn't be surprised if the reality differed from the policy here

The ban on draftable men leaving is a Ukrainian rule, not a Polish one.

I know, my question was whether Poles would enforce this rule.

From what I heard, there are exceptions (father is the only parent, medical reason,…)

Normally at a border you have guards from both countries . First you need to leave one country and then you can enter the next one. I have no idea how effective Ukrainian border guards are. Until last week they were not needed for this purpose.

It costs about $200 to leave if you’re a man.

You need to the explain what you mean. For bribing someone? Or for being fully legally allowed to leave.

Bribes.

First of all, the policy is Ukrainian one, the Poles are taking in practically everybody with an Ukrainian passport, it would be inhumane no to do so.

But Ukrainians are understandable too, and some men are allowed to leave. On the other hand, there are also some returning home from Poland. Imagine you went to Poland in order to provide for your family and your family is left at home. There are many cases like this. In such a situation going back is often the only option - staying away would only cause constant suffering with you being anxious if your wife and kids are safe at that moment or not, and frantically reading all reports of bombing and civilian casualties.

in Bulgaria, there is this: bg4ua.com shelter, food, clother, money, whatever - for incoming refugees.

Maybe such things can be started elsewhere.

What are monetary options to support Ukraine from inside the russia besides donating to international refugee efforts?

Not sure if crypto is an option for you?

https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/26/22952357/ukraine-bitcoin-...

https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1497594592438497282

Are donations to the Ukrainian Red Cross possible?

https://redcross.org.ua/donate/ but it seems to be under heavy load and not reliable at the moment.

https://www.icrc.org/en/donate/ukraine is also available.

So if Ukraine falls, what will happen to these funds?

It's a wire transfer, not a physical. Numbers will be reset.

Since you ask that, here's an option which seems to support Ukrainian defence without sending money to Ukrainian entities (edit: well, in this case it is the Ukrainian embassy in Czech Republic, so don't know if that helps): https://supportukraine.cz/en.html

However, I don't see any indication other than the links at the bottom that this isn't just some random scam site from a throwaway account.

I did a quick verification on my own, but it's not final, and I wrote "seems to".

1. Domain registration points to Ondrej Filip, allegedly CEO of CZ.NIC who reposts links from Ukrainian embassy in Czech Republic. Not clear if it matters if WHOIS privacy is on.

2. Email and URL match those of the Ukrainian embassy in Czech Republic. I am trying to reach out to them and confirm. Phone numbers listed on czechia.mfa.gov.ua are not picking up and I don't want to occupy the life and death support hotline.

3. Awkward web design was not an indicator to me, considering the page must have been launched in haste.

Cross-check help would be appreciated. If you find the site untrustworthy, I will reply to the source where I saw this link posted ASAP. I won't dox my main HN account on this topic.

If you have any doubts, donate via UNHCR's Ukraine emergency page (Google it, since you should not trust the direct link I post if you think I’m a scammer). It supports refugees, but not military action.

Edited.

Thanks for the followup. I didn't call you out as a scammer necessarily, just that there are many opportunistic people who look to profit in times of crisis by exploiting people's good nature, so just warning people to keep their wits and verify.

Edit:

I looked into it and it's also linked in a post from the official Embassy of Ukraine in Prague page on Facebook too [0]. Thanks for the info.

[0]: https://www.facebook.com/UkraineEmbassyinCzechia/posts/49393...

Thank you, I don't use Facebook enough so didn't think of that.

Ukraine as a whole is not falling. Russia might succeed in taking Kyiv, but it seems far less likely they’ll ever succeed in taking Lviv, which is where the Ukrainian war effort is effectively being directed from. President Zelensky remains in Kyiv for morale reasons, but Lviv has become the de facto Ukrainian capital. And Lviv is only 70 km from the Polish border, and so has easy supply lines to NATO territory, plus Russia will be very wary of bringing the fighting too close to the border with NATO given the risk that any fighting there might spill over the border and lead to NATO becoming directly involved in the war.

Don't count on NATO. Putin has said if any other country interfers there will be consequences never seen be before. Remember, he has nuclear weapons to destroy the planet many times.

NATO is already helping with supplies and such. They just can’t get involved directly with their own soldiers and such.

Supplies won't hinder Russia to invade Lviv.

Morale and coordinated action of the Ukrainian army are needed for that. Remember that the Ukrainian army is rather young. They started mobilization this week. Russia has years of fighting experience, not alone from Syria. I certainly sympathize with Ukraine, but I am not convinced that they can stop the massively stronger aggressor.

Edit: Russian troops are not very efficient and morale might be questionable in some parts. But Putin does not care how many of them die. He has hundreds of thousands more.

Russia said they would take the capital in 3 hours. It’s now day 4. People need to stop underestimating the people of Ukraine.

It's not underestimating the people of Ukraine. Putin can have his soldiers killed for months and years. And he seems crazy enough to do it.

The Ukraine does not have enough soldiers and not enough infrastructure to last that long.

The Russian armed forces in belgorod? Refuse to go into the Ukraine. Although Russians are told there’s 0 deaths to Russian forces and such, information is leaking into Russia. There’s mass protesting happening there. I don’t believe the war will last long enough for Putin to be able to keep throwing lives at it.

That coupled with Germany, the US, Czech Republic, and NATO supplying supplies, weapons, etc into Ukraine. The longer it goes on the more likely it seems Ukraine will survive.

Unless Putin goes fully insane and wants to nuke Ukraine or something. Let’s hope Putin tops himself in a bunker before then.

> There’s mass protesting happening there.

Like a couple of thousands out of 145 millions?

The vast majority of the population has only access to state controlled propaganda. Even if they have learned for generations that their leaders and their media can generally not be believed, the vast majority believes that NATO is threatening Russia and they have to defend themselves.

Why are you so desperate to downplay what's happening as if it's nothing and has no affect?

Remember that many NATO countries have been paying more to Russia than to Ukraine for years and still want to continue to pay.

One could say, well the former is profit from energy business and the and the latter is aid, you can't compare those. Doesn't matter. Putin can go to war only because Russia has made profits from exporting energy. And still energy exports are excluded from sanctions.

I would be glad if what is happening were enough to stop Putin. But I am far from convinced that it is enough.

> Putin can have his soldiers killed for months and years. And he seems crazy enough to do it.

Can he really? If he upsets too many important and powerful people in Russia, Putin risks being removed in a coup, or assassinated by his own military or intelligence services. If this war drags on for too long, if too many Russians die, if damage to the Russian economy becomes severe, that outcome starts to become a real risk for him.

Every dictator rules only because the support of his clique. If Ukraine holds long enough to firmly convince oligarchs that Putin will destroy their businesses before he captures Ukraine then he'll be influenced to back off or assasinated.

> Putin has said if any other country interfers there will be consequences never seen be before. Remember, he has nuclear weapons to destroy the planet many times.

NATO can make nuclear threats too. They are too classy to make them publicly like Putin does, but who can say they aren’t making nuclear threats and declaring red lines of their own behind closed doors?

Also, while Putin can make these threats, is he sufficiently suicidal to actually act on them? If he did, the likely end result would be both Russia and NATO reduced to smouldering wastelands. Even if he was suicidally insane enough to give the order, the Russian military might refuse to carry it out, they might turn on him instead.

Just contact customer service they’ll refund you within 5 business days…

I was wondering wow direct are these donations going straight to the army vs the Ukrainian state? The state will need a lot of money (especially foreign) to keep everyone fed and to rebuild. Especially if things go much worse. Obviously the state will give a lot of money to army now, but I guess mostly for the same things. Getting supplies and keeping logistics up.

Is there any cyber security risk here? Could Russia get control if that site and change the account numbers to something else? Feels a bit shot in the dark.

Always look up the account number before sending anything. You can find the number that's published there in many more sources.

Unable to access the website from Taiwan (Error 16 Access Denied). VPN via other countries works. Why block Taiwan?

Well, this is definitely peak insanity.

doesn't seem to stop most people it seems, what a strange new world

Canadian truckers are not fit to receive money but yeh, give directly to the Ukrainian Army...

I wonder what part you missed since you find this strange and you find those two cases even remotely comparable.

Wow, so you don't see any difference between man-babies protesting having to wear a piece of cloth on their faces and literal aggression by a foreign power?

Interesting that they list CNY but not NTD.

Have wired through £1500.

I feel like I should support Ukraine. I don't like the idea of foreign invaders. But if I'm honest I know very little about this conflict.

I know historically the Soviet union was probably worse to it's own citizens than the Nazis were to theirs. So I'm pretty sure Russia is the bad guy.

But how do you all know they are?

Where do I learn more that isn't some pre-digested media message?

Lately I've been let down by media narratives finding out they're often over hyped versions of the truth the leave out any nuance so I don't trust what I'm hearing on the news.

Red Famine by Anne Applebaum, although focused on the deliberate starvation of millions of Ukranians by Stalin in the Holodomor famine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - is a fantastic general primer on the issues around nationalities in and around Ukraine / Russia.

Thanks I'll look into it

She also writes for The Atlantic, so there are some shorter pieces here: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/anne-applebaum/

> But how do you all know they are?

When someone attacks someone else the heavy burden to prove that they are right, just, and doing things to benefit the people is on the attacker.

You can go to the primary sources comming straight from the mouth of Putin and Russia and decide for yourself if in your opinion they met this burden.

Western TV isn't explaining Putin's motivation very well. Only that it's bad that he is.

RT is claiming it's not an invasion but a short term special operation to remove neo Nazis from Ukraine.

I don't trust the RT version but am far too ignorant to trust my own judgement.

I honestly have no idea what is really going on.

> RT is claiming it's not an invasion but a short term special operation to remove neo Nazis from Ukraine.

At some point you have to trust your guts and decide how likely it is that Ukraine is run by neo Nazis.

For example watch https://t.co/WoMOgqXTWX and judge if this is the way a neo nazi would talk

> Western TV isn't explaining Putin's motivation very well. Only that it's bad that he is.

Because nobody knows his real motivations. He has said some obvious bullshit, and there are educated guesses that can be made ( e.g. he'll want to install a puppet government), but it's just that, guesses. In reality we don't know what's going on in Putin's head.

Not a perfect heuristic but generally speaking I don't find the neo-Nazi narrative to fit with the fact that the President is Jewish and vigorously opposes this "special operation."

There is a unit with a large number of soldiers that like to use Norse pagan imagery. Some neo-Nazis also use Norse pagan imagery. So... it isn't impossible that there are some. However, a kernel of truth in a lie doesn't mean the whole thing is true; on the contrary, that's what makes a good lie.

That's pretty solid generally being Jewish does disqualify someone from being involved in anything Nazi related. I really know very little about Ukraine and it's politics. I have no idea who their president is.

I also strongly agree with your grain of truth making a good lie argument.

> it isn't impossible that there are some

Actually, it's pretty evident that there are many. They surely still are a minority across the whole population, but they are definitely a strong one at that.

The unit you're referring too is the Azov battalion. It's a paramilitary unit that has been condemned for ISIS-like war crimes, mostly against the people in Donbas. This unit has been legitimized and fully integrated into the Ukrainian army. Its leader has strong ties to Ukraine Ministry of the Interior.

Also worrying is that on Jan 1 every year there are very popular marches (10-20k people in Kiev) in honor of Stepan Bandera, a Nazi collaborator and "national hero" in Ukraine.

Bandera and other Nazi collaborators that participated in the murder of around 100k (!!!) Poles, are now glorified thanks to a 2015 law which imposes criminal sanctions (I believe 5 to 10 years) to anyone who insults their name.

I'm on mobile and cannot provide sources right now, but I believe this is pretty uncontroversial stuff which you can corroborate with a little bit of digging.

> Western TV isn't explaining Putin's motivation very well.

Then please educate us, what is the valid reason for Russia to invade Ukraine?

"It's not an invasion" is pretty weak when you annexed Crimea, and declared 2 Ukrainian regions as "separate states".

The borders of Ukraine are pretty well set, so please explain why Russians have a right to shift these borders in their advantage? And how shifting borders is a "short term special operation".

I'm not arguing for Russia in anyway. I'm simply pleading my own ignorance.

It want to help the people of Ukraine but I know nothing about this.

I spent many years trying to figure out the Palestine vs Israel conflict. I met many very staunch on each side but I couldn't pick a side myself. It seemed like such a mess. It made me question the formation of my own nation ( new Zealand). We didn't treat the locals very well but somehow think our claim to this land is more legitimate than Israel's. Now I'm very skeptical in forming an opinion on any conflict between nations.

In that sense the Ukrainian conflict cannot be compared with Israel or New Zealand. Nobody new will be settling into Ukraine, it's all about who governs Ukraine.

Ukrainians seem to want to govern their own country, using democracy. Both the ones that have Ukrainian and Russian as their first language. The rest of the world seems to agree with that.

Russia seems to want to go back to the Soviet days where Ukraine is under direct control of Russia.

Make up your own mind in this matter.

Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK-yJD_fAtk

It'll provide you with needed context.

Very informative video!

Brilliant, thank you very much. That's exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.

> Western TV isn't explaining Putin's motivation very well.

Why do you care about western TV? Putin had an hour long televised speech about his reasons to go to war. You can watch it on youtube. If you don't speak Russian you can read the transcript on the Kremlin's webpage.

> I don't trust the RT version but am far too ignorant to trust my own judgement.

Excellent basis to start educating yourself.

yup, the "proofs" seems even weaker than the false WMD for invading iraq

It's easier than ever to find out about the world via channels outside of the media. Spend some time on twitter, telegram, youtube, etc. and you can see and hear what's going on directly.

It's pretty simple actually: Putin claims that they are sending "peace troops", because some rebels took over the pro-Russian government and installed a pro-EU government. Against the will of the people.

If that is the case, why are all these Ukrainians giving such a huge fight against the Russian "liberators"?

And another thing: Putin claims that Ukrainians are committing attacks against the Russian minorities in Ukraine. Guess what the 1st language of the Ukrainian president is? It's not Ukrainian, it's Russian!

Here's a good succint explanarion from a source who does not have a horse in the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK-yJD_fAtk

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