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Comment by overcast | Hacker News Reader

It sounds like the Russian population, and even the soldiers themselves don't know they are there, or at the very least why they are there. This guy calling his parents is just sad. Disposable conscripts sent to be fodder for something they are clueless about.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/t1h7k4/ukra...

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakeMyCoffin/comments/t1gq38/mmc_af...

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yeah the general thought right now is that these are just young, mandatory conscripts that were kept in the dark right before deployment by calling it training exercises and then put them into war mode. fighting against a population that wants to live in their homes is hard. I wish all the Ukrainians fighting against this corrupt invasion all the best.

I hope the crippling sanctions will not cause putin to do something drastic but rather force the oligarchs hand to depose him and stop the assault.

Unless it's the oligarchs who pushed for the war...

doubtful. putin is the mob boss and he has them in line up to a point. putin got power and strong armed the oligarchs into giving him a cut of their business and for them to stay out of politics. he made an example of one of them by putting the richest of the oligarchs at the time into prison... everyone else signed up.

this is strictly putin being putin.

edit also, a lot of the oligarch money is invested heavily in overseas banks that would and are being targeted by the sanctions. being a billionaire is not much if you can't access your money

What do they stand to gain? The entire oligarch angle doesn’t pass the smell test anymore these are billionaires that have billions on the line and nothing to gain from Russia which is still the main source of their questionable wealth becoming a pariah state.

I imagine most of the oligarchs are still relatively practical people. This war seems highly ideological, as in from the mind of Putin.

You don’t get to be a billionaire by being an ideologue.

True, but it seems some become more idealogical once they reach the status.

I would say Elon falls in this category too.

They get to gain Ukraine, the pipeline and resources. Ukrainian Oligarchs are in favor of the war because the Ukrainian democracy is a threat to their wealth, they want the same setup as in Russia. Ukraine's wealth in large part comes from taxation on transportation of Russian fuel. This is all about securing Russian / Eastern European dominance in the fossil fuel market while North America is effectively sitting on the sidelines until we get a pro fossil fuel Administration back in Washington.

They want to show a secure pro fossil fuel position and attract the international industry. The US became the leading world power 100% because of our industrial utilization and becoming the center of refinement for fossil fuels.

All of the "green propaganda" has been effective and even though there is not even remotely a variable alternative to meet the world's energy needs the US is voluntarily reducing it's number one power asset and Moscow needs to cement their position now before the US can recover.

Look at Germany, the largest EU economy and their hesitancy to go forward with sanctions. They need Russian fuel, as does the entire EU and in a few years these actions will be overlooked in the face of solid and stable supply. All Russia needs is to create enough Ukrainian turmoil to install a subservient regime that doesn't interfere with fossil fuel projects.

> They get to gain Ukraine, the pipeline and resources.

Ukraine is a poor country. Like Russia, like Belarus.

The pipeline was supposed to be deadlined completely after nord stream 2.

Ukraine does have a few resources, but the most it has is grain. That could be a thing, but I doubt it.

> The pipeline was supposed to be deadlined completely after nord stream 2.

But NS2 hit the brakes last year. Biden probably wanted something for it, like returning the Donbass. Hence Putin going "fuck it, I'll get the old one then".

That timeline and explanation makes more sense than a smart 69yo mafia boss, at the peak of his powers, just throwing it all away over some ideological bullshit.

How is that any different from some 19yo kid from a opioid infested family in Midwest going to Europe or Middle East in the name of democracy? Do you think those kids know what they are doing?

I think the point of having a serf like population is to allow having a growing military with the elites of the society making the decisions. It goes for ALL countries.

An important characteristic of propaganda is whataboutism. Consider why you would want to talk about some random US war instead of something that is happening right now? No one is immune to propaganda

You want to talk about what aboutism and propaganda? Right this very moment, there are more than 5 active conflicts going on. Myanmar, South Sudan, Syria, Mali, Lydia. Yet the only reason we seem to care about Ukraine so much is because somehow our American media has convinced us it’s the Democracy that’s at stake. Talk about propaganda. Go figure!

> You want to talk about what aboutism and propaganda? Right this very moment, there are more than 5 active conflicts going on. Myanmar, South Sudan, Syria, Mali, Lydia. Yet the only reason we seem to care about Ukraine so much is because somehow our American media has convinced us it’s the Democracy that’s at stake. Talk about propaganda. Go figure!

because those are all internal conflicts that don't involve nuclear superpowers next to other parties that would trigger a NATO retaliatory strike and likely world war iii.

I really don't get this comment, opioid and serf?

I would imagine democratic countries do tell their soldiers what they are fighting against and where otherwise thats a strategic failure.

I'm not American (hello from Canada, born in ex-Yugoslavia), but that's silly. You don't get the difference between a conscript and an enlisted soldier? Ask my father if it was propaganda made him chose to defend some warlord's front or if it was armed soldiers forcing him to under threat of desertion. In the instance of these Russian conscripts, it could've been an extension of their mandatory 12-month training rather than a knock on the door, but it's still armed soldiers that made sure they didn't desert.

I truly dislike the way America promotes enlisting like some cool Activision game (the ads are truly jarring from the outside looking in), but the difference is no less black and white.

> How is that any different from some 19yo kid from a opioid infested family in Midwest going to Europe or Middle East in the name of democracy? Do you think those kids know what they are doing?

mandatory conscription vs a decision and desire to join? is that really not clear?

The first casualty of War is Truth. It could be staged, he could be lying to be seem more sympathetic and avoid torture. The fog of war is there, but know almost nothing.

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