Ask HN: How can I use Bitcoin as currency? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How can I use Bitcoin as currency?

8 pointsversion_five15 comments

There is more talk than usual about bitcoin as an alternative to cash (vs as an investment) for transactions that are not government mediated. So, if I wanted to use bitcoin (or any major crypto), is it actually possible? Can I pay < .1% fees like I would with fiat and can I buy physical goods anonymously? Or is it really just that I can send money to someone else? I've tried some googling but certainly not found anything definitive. If I don't want to "invest", why would I get BTC instead of cash for personal spending? Or is that not what it's for?

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Some of the exchanges have debit cards--

https://www.coinbase.com/card

They convert cryptocurrency to "fiat" during the purchase so it's not really what you want per se. I've heard crypto compared to gold in that most holders wouldn't buy goods/services with it directly but it somehow has value anyway. Obviously it doesn't have the same thousands year history as gold.

> is it actually possible?

I don't think you can. It is too volatile to be used as a currency.

> Can I pay < .1% fees like I would with fiat and can I buy physical goods anonymously?

No. It is not anonymous and the fees are just as high.

> Or is it really just that I can send money to someone else? I've tried some googling but certainly not found anything definitive. If I don't want to "invest", why would I get BTC instead of cash for personal spending? Or is that not what it's for?

It is meant for peer-to-peer electronic cash. Using a wallet on an exchange defeats the purpose of 'peer-to-peer' and so does waiting for hours to send Bitcoins from one address to another which is slower than 'fast bank transfer'.

There are better cryptocurrencies and stable-coins suitable for that purpose.

Which crypto today is realistically usable as a currency (for e-commerce)?

* easy on-ramp for non-holders - this is the hardest

* easy to use wallets

* actually useful merchants that accept said crypto

* reasonable fees - that preferably beat visa/mc - this rules out most (crypto CC providers)

I have a side business in a field rife with CC fraud.

I am yet to find an easy to offer crypto payment solution that would entice customers.

USDC [0] essentially can be used as a multi-chain stablecoin. You can accept USDC with other cryptocurrencies listed on [0]. Here's an example of a user paying with Solana USDC:

Depending on the fees, the merchant could use say, Solana Pay [1] or MoonPay [2] and the user on-ramp is the Phantom Wallet [2][3].

All of that addresses every single bullet point.

[0] https://www.circle.com/en/multichain-usdc

[1] https://solana.com/news/solana-pay-announcement

[2] https://www.moonpay.com/business/onramps

[3] https://www.moonpay.com/blog/moonpay-phantom

[4] https://phantom.app/

I googled "merchants accepting moonpay" and could not find a list. Are you aware of one?

Edit: ditto for solana pay, it looks like this was announced this month an "will" do a lot of stuff but doesn't exist

I appreciate the links.

I do not see the example link of user paying with Solana USDC?

In your links I did not see useful case studio OUTSIDE crypto space.

Your links show tons of crypto to crypto use cases. (currently emphasing being on various nft related services, like that phantom.app -> A beautiful home for all your NFTs).

I sell virtual products/services which are not related to crypto. I want to offer an ability for someone without any cryptocurrency to purchase these virtual goods from me.

So the chain could be https://www.moonpay.com/buy -> users uses some wallet -> payment widget on my site.(like old bitpay)

There have to be examples of a regular ecommerce shop having this functionality.

Again, I want Joe Sixpack with a CC but no crypto to come onto my site and pay with cryptocurrency in a user friendly manner.

There was a schism in the Bitcoin community in 2017 over this issue, which led to the forking of BCH (Bitcoin Cash) as a separate cryptocurrency:

https://www.coinbase.com/price/bitcoin-cash

The main difference being that BCH has lower on-chain fees (half a penny per transaction). And BCH does not have Replace-By-Fee (RBF), making it much more difficult (but not impossible) to reverse transactions maliciously. Adoption of BCH has been disappointing, as cryptocurrency continues to be seen mostly as a speculative investment rather than a replacement for cash.

No, BCH was founded by an imposter which affected its adoption and BTC mostly solved the problem with the Lightning Network.

You are confusing BCH with BSV, which was started by a guy who claims to be Satoshi.

Lightning Network is not Bitcoin. It is a separate payments platform, being pushed by a for-profit company, Blockstream. It is never non-custodial. You always require a third-party to authorize and process your transactions for you. Since it doesn't use mining / blockchain, it is vulnerable to all the centralization problems that Bitcoin was supposed to solve.

You are wrong about lightning. You can use a third party custodian, but it's possible to control the keys to your bitcoin locked up in lightning channels. At any point you can "withdraw" your bitcoin back to the main chain.

I think you are confusing the lightning network with liquid BTC [0], which is controlled by Blockstream.

[0] https://help.blockstream.com/hc/en-us/articles/900001408623-...

> So, if I wanted to use bitcoin (or any major crypto), is it actually possible?

You need a way to obtain Bitcoin (through a crypto exchange or by receiving a crypto payment from somebody else), and you need someone (a person or a business) to accept the payment.

It might be worth it for illegal stuff, buying drugs or for large international transactions. It's not practical for regular spending because almost nobody will accept it and the transaction fees will be high.

Is bitcoin an alternative to cash?

No. Its value is too volatile, its transaction fees are too high, its clearance speed is too slow, and if anyone rips you off you are reduced to begging.

What's a good replacement for fiat cash? Easy: fiat cash.

What if you want digital cash to enable global trade?

Please look up Bitcoin's Lightning Network. There really is no excuse for perpetuating outdated information, it has been out for a while and has substantial use.

I looked it up before I posted this Ask HN. I did not see an obvious answer to any of my questions. Do you have some additional information about how I can use the lightning network to address what I'm asking about in my post?

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