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Comment by irrational | Hacker News Reader

It is interesting to look at ancient history and realize that "your word is your bond" was a real thing. Even "bad" people would, usually, not be willing to break oaths that they had made. It is shocking, in today's world, to imagine people actually taking a promise or oath that seriously. If a politician breaks their word, we don't think anything of it since it is so commonplace. I can't even imagine a society where once someone had given their word about something you would completely trust them on that issue since breaking your word would be unthinkable. Can you imagine drawing a box on the ground and having a person give their word that they will not leave it and then they would literally die before leaving the box? I can't even imagine living in that sort of society. I mistrust every single person I meet on a daily basis. I simply can't fathom having trust in anyone's word.

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We have control over the human culture right? In unison we can make a difference?

Basically, we do not.

The problem is you're fighting uphill against individually-rational behaviour. If you keep your word while everyone around you breaks theirs, you will feel like a sucker while they get ahead. Most people will think "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" after a few rounds of this.

But being known as an honest man is great. I remember reading an article years ago (my search-fu fails me, sorry) about a guy who stopped lying about everything, even little white lies. He did this first as a result of losing a bet, but later found that he really enjoyed the trust people put in his words and decided to keep going. OTOH, if you are known as someone whose word is his bond, that is unfortunately an exploitable vulnerability.

It is not clear to me how you rebuild this norm at a societal level.

there is an essay on this (available as a book) by sam harris that i really enjoyed; it changed my perspective on lying/the truth.

since, i have decided to abandon even "white lies" and i find it very freeing. in the long trail i think it makes life a lot simpler, even if situations arise where you feel as though you need to "spare someone's feelings," i've found that they're navigable in a considerate way that doesn't necessitate dishonesty.

https://www.samharris.org/books/lying

Social techniques like that should be taught in schools.

As someone who has adopted a 0 tolerance policy for lying as a core principle, I’ve accepted that people will take advantage of my trust and that I will suffer because of it. Even if it only makes a small difference, I think it’s worth it. If anything, I hope it at least inspires my daughter.

The difference requires that you actually believe that supernatural will punish you and your family if you break that oath. Which has also other consequences - like your family being motivated to be very controlling over what they allow you to say or do in the fear it will have consequences on them.

Other consequence is assumption that if bad things (sickness, injury, fire, ...) happen, it is punishment for what X had done or not done. This leads to revenge toward other humans for unrelated sicknesses, injuries, fires, ... .

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