You Shouldn't Be Terrified of This Never-Ending Stew (2015) | Hacker News Reader

You Shouldn't Be Terrified of This Never-Ending Stew (2015)

foodandwine.com

39 pointsTomte37 comments

Le Central in San Francisco has a “perpetual stew” in the form of cassoulet. They have a chalkboard in the restaurant which lists how many days it’s been going. It’s even listed on their website:

http://lecentralbistro.com/

“Our cassoulet has been cooking for … 17,002 days”

That’s more than 46 years!

A cookbook of mine made reference to an old French restaurant that keeps 4 stock pots simmering 24/7. Vegetables, chicken, duck, and beef/lamb scraps are divvied up daily. I have a large crock-pot that can maintain a simmer indefinitely and I can say that stocks are noticeably better after a week. I would recommend it to anyone that finds themselves with trimmings from fresh vegetables and meat on a near-daily basis.

Over the years, I've been stumbling on the mention of perpetual stews in the middle ages several times, and the concept always intrigued me.

I'm still not sure how much credibility stories like the batch of "pot-au-feu" that was supposedly maintained as a perpetual stew in Perpignan from the 15th century until the middle of the 20th have, but it certainly sounds great.

At the very least I have doubts that the stew would continue uninterrupted during the siege of Perpignan in the 1640s during the 30 year war.

I don't think it's supposed to be taken literally. Even keeping a pot from spilling for hundreds of years would be a challenging task, and everyone can see that.

It's more so a "spiritual successor", somebody has been stewing this stew, largely never disturbing it and restoring it when it inevitably had a "malfunction". Much like you don't call your computer a new computer when it crashes and needs a part replaced. This runs into the ship of Theseus problem though.

When I lived with roommates back in 2010, I had an idea that we should always have a stew going - I called it 'constant stew' - it would be cheap and we would eat it with rice, which was also easy and quick to make. Little did I know it is actually a thing.

As for food safety, I've had weeks where I left my food bowl unwashed and I just kept putting new food from it. I got the idea from Ken Ilgunas, my favorite blogger of all time:

www.kenilgunas.com/2009/02/eating-part-i-cooking-in-van.html

Even the crust of eggs, finished meat dishes, etc would be left out at room temperature for the next day's meal. Never had a problem, as far as I recall. Unfortunately I'm no longer single so this habit did not endure.

that is a really risky move… food poisoning shouldn’t be overlooked

Perpetual Stews are an interesting thing. A couple years ago, I found out about Burgoo, which is an Appalachian stew. Burgoo is the subject of many cookoffs and festivals there.

Perpetual Stews were a way of stretching food so that every little bit was a help.

It is wider spread than just Appalachia. Uticah, IL I am aware has for decades had a yearly burgoo festival, and that is a long way out.

I think it probably has just become small town Americana at this point.

I did this a few years ago with my crock pot. I called it "perpetual porridge" and kept it running for about three weeks.

The first few weeks were sensible: I made a soup and added root vegetables and water. Sometimes some sausages and beans.

I do remember the mistake: adding a super old (not moldy) half loaf of sourdough for it to chew through.

From then on it was spoon after spoon of funky sour. Haven't tried it again since.

Seems like a great strategy for clear broths though!

I learned about this "never-ending stew" type of thing from my favourite recipe for (mall type) teriyaki chicken: https://cheftalk.com/threads/sarku-japan-chicken-teriyaki.15...

Highly recommended.

In my time working in Asian restaurants, I heard that some states do have laws against "never-ending stews" or soups that were started X hours ago (12-24) and that was the reason why certain noodle soups (ie pho or ramen) in some areas just don't quite have that authentic taste and other areas are truer to it.

There is a mole (literally 'sauce' in Spanish) that is over 2,000 days old: https://www.newworlder.com/enrique-olveras-mole-madre-turns-...

Aren't there dangers related to heavy metals (if they free up from their organic molecules) and to other substances that are not healthy anymore after long cooking?

I've been intrigued by the concept since first hearing about it in Dies the Fire.

Where could I try a perpetual stew that has been cooking for several years?

> We don't have scientific evidence, but that sounds more effective than this year's flu shot.

This is misleading health information. Please get a flu shot. It saves lives.

A year ago I would have probably told you to calm down and that the statement was clearly a joke, but the way many people have responded to the pandemic has really opened my eyes, and I now agree with you. Unfortunately public health is a place where gray areas and humor can be dangerous because they contribute (often unintentionally) to a lack of taking things seriously.

2yrs ago I would've said people scolding others for using obvious humor was just a meaningless activity of busybodies, but the way many people have responded to the pandemic has really opened my eyes. It turns out these were people who actually wanted to control speech and dictate what can be accepted as truth despite their inability to identify what the truth is. They are a great evil and have destroyed people's trust in truth finding activities.

No, it's a joke.

Thank you for bearing this emotional labor, your bank account has been unfrozen for an additional 30 days. See you again next month.

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

There's little to assume in terms of good faith in this case. An obvious joke gets turned into a busybody scold. How does one interpret that into a stronger thing?

I'm not sure if you misread my comment or I'm misreading yours.

The comment that broke the site guidelines was https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30443157, by assuming that the point of the OP was to convey "misleading health information" and then reacting to that.

Oh for god's sake it's a mild joke. They even preamble it with a warning that they have no scientific evidence. The pandemic seems to have made humorless busybodies such as yourself even more blatant than was the case before. People can joke about serious subjects you know? Also, flu shots should be someone's personal business, not something to be lectured about. The people who feel vulnerable should vaccinate themselves perhaps, others, as they choose.

Actually these things are not reliably safe. Doing this is pretty irresponsible.

Do you have any data to back this claim?

https://www.nejm.org/doi/story/10.1056/feature.2021.02.19.10...

> The patient had been well until 20 hours before this admission, when diffuse abdominal pain and nausea developed after he ate rice, chicken, and lo mein leftovers from a restaurant meal.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMcpc2027093

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2022/02/21/teen-suffer...

> Doctors ended up having to amputate different parts of the 19-year-old’s fingers and both of his legs below his knees.

https://www.newsweek.com/teen-legs-amputated-leftover-noodle...

> Bacteria can grow quickly in food left at room temperature according to WebMD, which recommends to reduce the risk of food poisoning leftover food should be refrigerated no later than 2 hours after it is taken from a heat source like an oven or warming tray.

> The website adds that the fact that food has to be left to cool before being refrigerated is actually a myth, and hot foods can be placed directly in a refrigerator.

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From the original article:

> Here's why that's not terrifying and actually pretty cool: Constant simmering means bacteria can't develop, and Stu is frequently and thoroughly strained.

Though the issue is the "if it isn't constantly maintained at bacteria killing levels"

> Though the issue is the "if it isn't constantly maintained at bacteria killing levels"

How is this any different from a soup that was started hours ago?

If it is being kept at a proper and maintained simmer of 185°F to 205°F, that shouldn't be an issue.

If it is at 140°F or lower for any length of time, then there's an issue.

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and...

https://www.food-safety.com/articles/4722-the-danger-zone-re...

This all is about keeping a disciplined kitchen. That never ending stew if it is maintained properly, then maybe.

Consider how many kitchens rack up obvious health code violations and then ask if they're disciplined enough to make sure they're not having problems with the non-obvious ones.

The soup that was started a few hours ago starts with a completely sanitized initial condition and has a history to consider of a few hours. The never ending stew has a much longer history to consider.

What I was taught and experienced growing up was that if you boil it for 10 minutes every 24 hours, it'll resterilize it. Ad infinitum. I've only ever done it out to about 2 weeks but here's an example of a whole month.[0]

[0] https://www.fowlersmakeryandmischief.com/blog-fowler-alone-y...

This isn't correct. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/dining/bending-the-rules-....

I used to work in biology labs and even jars of autoclaved media would periodically spontaneously grow cultures; it's effectively impossible to eliminate spores with heat.

Resterilization isn't the only problem - if at any time there is significant bacterial growth, toxins accumulate and are not cleared by sterilization. Combined with spores that periodically reactivate and grow you end up with a far number of articulated risks.

Can you really sit around boiling a stock every 10 minutes for 24 hours? Why would you even do that?

What's the problem with just leaving it simmering non-stop? No chance for spores to develop then.

The heat! When we cook (especially during hot days) it gets especially hot in the kitchen. I think continuously simmering would increase the ambient temperature.

Also many families (including mine) still uses gas stove so the constants gas increases nitrous oxide levels which is harmful for health [0]

[0] https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/indoor-air-pollut...

> Can you really sit around boiling a stock every 10 minutes for 24 hours? Why would you even do that?

Because you make your living serving food to people, though that's not what's happening here.

Nothing discussed is applicable to the submission, as far as I can tell.

I think the danger here is that some bacteria can produce toxins that are dangerous to humans that won't be destroyed by a 10 minute boil.

It's not actually this simple, although it's safe to think of it this way and it's not dumb or ignorant to do so.

Killing pathogens is a time vs. temperature thing. You frequently see instructions to cook e.g. poultry to 165F for some amount of time to prevent salmonella, but that's simplified for easy communication and safety. A chicken breast can be cooked to 150F or even lower [0] safely, as long as you cook it long enough. It's why sous-vide is safe, as long as you hit the time/temperature thresholds.

You definitely can end up in bad spots though. There's a series on youtube where a guy does wacky stuff with sous-vide, and he cooked a brisket at 131F for a month[1]. I'm sure they played it up some for the camera, but that brisket was not good to be in the same room with, let alone edible.

I imagine these long-lived stews are similar. They are kept at a simmer (i.e. right at/below boiling) indefinitely, not reheated. But while you can put fish heads and pig trotters and so forth in there, you should not leave them in there perpetually. You need to filter the solids out and replace them, or you're going to end up with something inedible if not actually dangerous.

I'd try this stew and I bet it's good. I would not make it at home, though. Do you really want your stove running 24/7?

[0]: https://www.canr.msu.edu/smprv/uploads/files/RTE_Poultry_Tab... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4of3b7Xb4Rs

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