Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat | Hacker News Reader

Car stolen with homemade GPS tracker in backseat

blues.io

74 pointssipacate81 comments

Some people don't know that you absolutely are allowed to take back your stolen property. You don't need to involve the police unless you want to. Repo folks do this all the time.

Keep an extra key for your car at home and put an Airtag in your car. If it's stolen, just go get it back when it's safe to do so.

Calling the police in most American cities won't get you far. They usually can't pursue a speeding car anymore, and by the time they get to your parked car it'll probably have moved. Their hands are tied by a lot of red tape that doesn't apply to you, the owner. Stealing it back is usually your best option.

Walking into an unfamiliar situation without training and potentially being confronted by known criminals does not sound like a great idea to me.

Sorry, but my property just isn’t worth the risk. It’s replaceable, I’m not.

I really don't think it's so much worse than walking into a situation with unknown criminals, which most of us probably do on a consistent basis. I would definitely just go get my car back. I would probably try to do it at a time when there wouldn't be a confrontation, but it may happen.

Yeah, at least you can be prepared. Bring a friend ready to call for help, video tape everything, etc.

Despite what cops would have you believe, criminals aren't dumb. Most will recognize that it would be a bad idea to bring cops to the place they are apparently holding stolen cars. So if they know you brought an unknown number of witnesses prepared to call 911, they will probably back off. After all, it's pretty easy to get away with property crime if you stay off the radar.

Indeed, I'd assume most of them know that if you found the car and are there, it's likely that others (friends/etc) also know of the location. It's in their best interests to let you "steal" the car back and (most likely) resolve the problem for good than escalating it into more violence where it's likely to result in them not only getting in trouble for the initial theft but also the subsequent violence.

Not every criminal is great at critical thinking, long-term planning or self control. Any element of surprise danger is going to trigger a flight or fight response.

The difference is you are directly challenging them. Many thieves will respond to taking their stolen car back the same way most of us here would. Anger and it's personal -- you're stealing from them! And they're probably more impulsive and less risk adverse than the average person.

Now I'd totally hop in and drive off if it's left unattended at the curb or whatever though. Just be quick, bring friends, and avoid confrontation.

> The difference is you are directly challenging them. Many thieves...

The tricky part is figuring out if the thief is in this "many" or not. Good luck, since you can only choose wrong once! Don't forget, they know where you live!

What if the car is used to store valuable and illegal goods? And a big amount of them? Now you’re the target of both the criminals and the police.

Nonsense.

My car was stolen. I made a police report. It later turned up with some heroin in it. I called the police again. They thanked me, took the heroin as evidence, and went along their way.

what if they suspected you of lying about the theft, or found the heroin before you did?

Probably just the criminals. It should be easy enough to prove to the police that you don’t have the means or motive to acquire those illegal goods.

However, if you’re mixed up in illegal activity then yeah it might look bad.

> It should be easy enough to prove to the police that you don’t have the means or motive to acquire those illegal goods.

I see you haven't had much experience with American police.

True, I’ve only had 6 or 7 interactions with police and they’ve all been quick and easy, but I am an educated middle age white male family man from the Bay Area so I get that other people have very different experiences from mine and yeah I could see how “just explain it to the police” wouldn’t work for everyone.

One of my friends posted the other day about how they dropped off their car to get an oil change. They went and sat down outside, scrolling through their phone. Ten minutes later the cops showed up and told him he couldn’t sleep there and he needed to go somewhere else.

Yeah, I’d say us middle-aged white dudes have it pretty easy.

In a few years you're sitting at a red light and a cop happens to be behind you. Cop idly runs your plates because what stopping him? Car comes back as stolen since you reported it stolen and no one ever corrected that when you stole it back. Enjoy your night in jail.

But it's your car and the name on your driver's license matches the name on the title and the DMV registration?

That won't stop them from sending half a dozen cops to beat the shit out of you before even asking you questions.

https://youtu.be/X54YNnZMq-M

No problem with the car and its owner, however "It appears you've filed a false police report; that's an offense son; step out of the vehicle with your hands in clear sight"

Right, like trying to raise venture funding for instance… :p

You could just hire someone for repossession (aka “repo”)

Having been in jail (in the USA) with dozens of carjackers and car thieves, all of them were packing all of the time, because of rival gangs. They will NOT think at all before shooting. They will just shoot you and run. The kids who do this stuff are ingrained now to just shoot at any threat. Fist-fighting is long gone. I am not exaggerating here. They will shoot.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/police-believe-carjack...

Criminals are scared too, that helps a lot in these situations. You just need to not act like a target.

That sounds somewhat like pre-emptive victim blaming but essentially you have to play mind games if you step to a criminal so if you do it wrong that's kind of on you.

My vehicles are insured, and car thieves don’t treat vehicles with care. Once it’s been stolen, it belongs to the insurance company. I don’t want it back.

Insurance companies don't give away cars. They'll make you pay some of it back over time in increased premiums.

I mean what are they going to do, call the cops?

Because they can’t/won’t, most criminal orgs take security into their own hands.

It’s a big issue with the war on drugs and other criminalized industries, where a lot of violence occurs because they can’t call the cops.

They may come back for more than the car.

No, they'll just shoot you. They're criminals, remember?

Well, definitely file a police report for insurance reasons, and don't be a hero because these are criminals you are dealing with. Also remember that (in this scenario) these criminals know where you live...

>Also remember that (in this scenario) these criminals know where you live...

Maybe. We have car theft crime rings where I'm from and I doubt they document the home of ever car they steal, since they will do several a night and have been operating for a few years now.

Question: someone steals your car and you go to take it back. When you drive off with it, the thief's backpack/laptop/etc. are in the back seat. Can you now be prosecuted for theft? Obviously most people wouldn't want to hang around long enough to fully inspect the vehicle to make sure they're not taking anything that doesn't belong to them!

My inkling, as a former lawyer, is that this would not be theft if you didn't know the item was there. Crimes require a certain mental state, and theft typically requires that you be aware that you're taking a thing that doesn't belong to you. If you leave a restaurant and unknowingly take someone else's umbrella from the bin instead of your own, you cannot be found guilty of theft.

If you do know the items are there, you could be found guilty. Of course, the practical reality is that you don't want to give a criminal any reason to come back to your house, hunting for his belongings.

I would imagine that legally speaking that it is no different than the situation an Uber driver faces when someone leaves their backpack/laptop/etc. in their car.

IANAL either but the mens rea doesn't exist, right. There's also another angle: if I opened up your car and tossed my backpack in knowing it's a random stranger's car that might not be there when I get back, I have abandoned my property and have no claim against the car's owner. (It's more complicated with an honest mistake, though.)

> When you drive off with it, the thief's backpack/laptop/etc. are in the back seat.

Or even much worse, and you get blamed for the item and go to prison.

> My inkling, as a former lawyer, is that this would not be theft if you didn't know the item was there

Not theft, but still conversion. The thief could sue you for the value of the items. When a car is repossessed the chattels (personal items) have to be returned to avoid liability. There is case law establishing that if you tell the repo agent you have stuff in the trunk and he drives off anyway, that's prima facie conversion (monetary liability) regardless of whether they try to return the items later.

This is not a repossession situation, so it is not obvious that the law is the same as it is with repossession.

Isn’t it literally repossessed when you steal back your car.

Not in the sense nwiswell is using the term, where the issue is the legal obligations that surround the case of repossession in response to loan default. Context matters.

Even more to the point, driving your own car is not stealing it, either.

I hadn't considered conversion, but it looks like under some statutes this still requires knowledge and/or intent. [1] It also appears that the 'unclean hands' doctrine could be invoked as a defense, and a thief who seeks return of his laptop that he stashed in your car that he stole would most certainly have unclean hands!

There is one wrinkle in the intent issue, which is that you may not have had intent to take the item when you drove off, but if you later discover it and didn't give it back, you might form the requisite intent at that time. All in all, this sounds like a good law school exam question!

1: https://california-business-lawyer-corporate-lawyer.com/cali...

Is there a citation for that case law?

It seems extremely unlikely that the simple repossession of a car with personal property is conversion given that roughly 100% of all repos will have at least some personal property within.

It’s clear they are obligated to return it to you, but your argument here doesn’t sound right.

I'm sure if a DA tried to pull this, a grand jury or judge would no bill this.

Personally, if found stuff that wasn't mine, it'd get pitched to a dumpster.

The definition of theft is to take something with the intent to not return it.

Once you found the backpack, you would have to return it to the thief for it not to be theft.

Hopefully you wouldn't get prosecuted, but you are then at the whim of the prosecutor. If the thief calls it in you've created a bad situation. I was in jail and saw weird crimes like this. A guy bought some dope for $40 from a dealer, but only handed him $20 and ran off with the dope. The dealer called 911 and reported the stolen merch. The buyer was in jail with me. WTF.

What is WTF about the story?

That they called 911 over $20 in an illegal transaction?

> If it's stolen, just go get it back when it's safe to do so.

Your entire recommendation to "steal it back" is predicated on knowing when it's "safe" to get your stolen car in procession by criminals. Yeah, you're not going to know that.

Considering that the car was found with bullet holes in the roof, I think you're giving some very dangerous advice.

> Keep an extra key for your car at home and put an Airtag in your car.

Tracking a stole vehicle is definitely one of the best use for an Airtag. If someone steals your car, any guy with an Apple product around the street is helping you to find it.

IMO in the near future car manufacturers will integrate Find My technology into the car electronics, just as some of them already do with Apple car keys.

> If it's stolen, just go get it back when it's safe to do so.

I'm more doubtful on this. Better to let the police handle such potentially dangerous situations.

>Calling the police in most American cities won't get you far.

This really varies widely by location.

The local police in my sleepy suburb will go full DEFCON 1 if they know a stolen car is in the area. They don't have a lot to do...

It might be worth seeing what the locals are or aren't willing to do.

are you allowed to show up armed, in case they are waiting for you? If you end up in a shootout, will you be considered the aggressor? Seems dangerous to me

In America? Yes. I can't speak for other countries. If you do get in a shootout, well, that's likely self defense.

Many will wring their hands over taking direct action, but I can speak from experience, the police and legal system don't give a damn about you or your possessions. I would absolutely be willing to risk it rather than go through the hassle of buying a new car right now.

Buying a new car is more of a hassle than risking getting into a shootout over property?

People wildly overestimate how quickly most people, criminals included, are willing to get into shootouts or even initiate violence against someone they don't size up as a victim.

If you show up to retrieve your stolen property chances are 99 out of 100 times you'll get it handed back without much of a question. They are just as scared as you randomly showing up and tracking them down as you are of them. You are not acting the part, and your actions are dangerous and abnormal - even most predators pause in such situations, and most criminals are not predators but opportunists.

Most cases. Obviously it's not the safest thing in the world, and if you're not comfortable with confrontation I wouldn't recommend it.

I'm financially well off enough now where I'd likely let pretty much all my physical possessions walk without recourse (what will happen if you just report to police). It's not worth the risk:reward benefit any longer.

However there were times in my life where I absolutely took matters into my own hands and collected stolen property that was critical to my livelihood and too expensive to replace. It was surprisingly easy every time. There were times way in my past I would have defended certain property with my life if it came to it, since losing it was nearly the same thing.

> are you allowed to show up armed, in case they are waiting for you

Every US state has slightly different laws about open carry and concealed carry laws in public. They also have different rules about self-defense.

There was a case recently where a guy sat in his own garage with a shotgun (due to some recent burglaries) and shot an intruder. He was charged with murder. I think because 1) it was pre-meditated (he expected an intruder and intended to kill them), 2) his life was not in imminent danger (the intruder had no weapons) 3) he made no attempt to de-escalate the situation and did not fire a warning shot or tell the person to leave.

I think California is like this where you are obligated to not be the aggressor, even on your own property, and must make attempts at a non-lethal de-escalation if your life is not in immediate danger. But then there are states where you can "stand your ground" in public and defend your property with lethal force. So, it all depends on local laws.

"warning shot" is deadly force, a crime anywhere shooting is a crime, for good reason.

Displaying the weapon is the only "warning" allowed -- and even that is only legal if you have an Open Carry license or if you are responding to a threat.

> ... put an AirTag in your car

After your car is stolen and the AirTag is separated from your phone, you have ~12 hours before it starts randomly beeping every time it detects motion, alerting the thief to its presence. Or if the thief has an iPhone they'll get a notification that "An AirTag is traveling with you" soon after they steal it.

AirTags are great but sadly I feel like they're not great for this use case. Though definitely better than nothing. (IMHO there's a fundamental conflict between preventing stalking and tracking stolen goods. The result is they're not great for either use case)

If the airtag is even somewhat well hidden, they would probably just dump the car instead of spending hours looking for it. $30 is a pretty cheap extra deterrent.

If you do this the first thing you should do is drive it to a car dealership and trade it in.

I fortunately never had personal experience with this, but around here (central europe) car thieves often steal car and then just park it in some neutral place to let it "cool down" for couple of days - if it contains any tracking devices owner will get it and they will not reveal their garage. There are facebook groups where people post details of their stolen cars and people report if they see them parked somewhere. If this is the case, tracking device may be quite helpful.

"Homemade"? This is a post on the official company blog of a commercial product.

The entire article had an odd vibe to it. Either the crime didn't actually happen, or it's just a distasteful example of turning the victims of a felony into a marketing opportunity.

Yeah, it's either a total fabrication or a great example of how to write up a true story that sounds like BS.

I’m sure the original was fantastic until the company’s editors got their hands on it.

The "victim" is a programmer at Blues Wireless. They reference a tweet but the Twitter account and writer of their blog are the same person.

The whole thing seems like an ad, or just a huge coincidence.

One note, in some cities the parking folks don't talk to police, so if your car is stolen you can start checking for tickets. This used to result in pretty quick hits. I had my car stolen 3 times and recovered it each time, unfortunately in progressively worse condition.

Once I found folks in it. Cops said basically nothing would happen to them if I tried to pursue anything so I didn't do anything because they were in neighborhood and I didn't want a beef with them if there was really no consequence.

"I had my car stolen 3 times"

I'm curious: does the above make you think the car will be stolen again pretty soon? If so, does that cause you ongoing stress?

No, it was an older car (so easy to steal). After it had been trashed (radio ripped out, trunk wouldn't close properly) it had no real value anymore.

The thieves would normally steal it and kill battery (because of damage you had to really fiddle with it to get trunk light off etc). So I'd find it in a parking spot.

They did seem to sometimes use it to hang out in, which is how I ran into them in it. I think in some cases they used these stolen cars to store stuff so I'd do a quick search before taking it back.

Only really annoying thing was that it would have been trivial for cops to a) recover these given the citation data was already in a city system and b) void out the citations given car was reported stolen.

You guys really need to move to nicer areas.

The nicer areas are where the best cars to steal are located.

This article is a product promotion as much as it is an (anti-climatic) story about crime, and the two are mixed in an unpleasant way.

Point of clarification: you are allowed to take it back so long as you don't commit any other crimes while doing so.

As OJ Simpson can readily attest, you are not allowed to rob it back.

> The day after Thanksgiving my parents' car was stolen out of the driveway while we were all inside eating dinner.

For a brief moment I thought they were all in the car while it was being stolen.

I was in jail with a guy who robbed a 7-11. This is how he got caught:

Goes into store, masked up, with gun. Sticks up cashier. Walks cashier back to manager's office and sticks up manager. Cashier takes moment of distraction to try to call 911 on her iPhone. Robber sees and snatches phone off her and puts in his pocket. Takes all money from store, exits out back to waiting car, takes off. Clean getaway. 15 mins later pulled over at intersection by cops swarming from all directions.

Immediately after robbery, manager called cops. Turned up two mins later. Showed them Find My iPhone on the store PC. Cop radios everyone in area and directs their movements. Game over.

Funny thing with jail is that you get to really like guys even if their crimes were bogus. He was a funny guy and I felt bad for him because the previous two times he'd been locked up for armed robbery he had got out to find his wife pregnant. He'd adopted both kids and was very sweet to them on the phone when I overheard him, but honestly, his wife is probably pregnant again now.

This looks like one big ad to me.

Does anybody believe the story in this advertorial actually happened?

I mean they didn‘t even mention the car make.

Interesting story, I was hoping while reading that your parents got their car back in real time thanks to your geek gear in the back seat.

The story about monitoring hardware and theft reminded me of this burglar incident in the UK (I once met the person involved): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cambridgeshire/42...

If you find this interesting, check out OwnTracks.

https://owntracks.org/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11315999

Did I miss what happend to the car in the end or was it omitted?

You missed it.

For about an hour after the car was stolen we were able to follow it around on my app’s map because my asset tracker remained undetected in the backseat. After that, the thieves discovered it and ditched it ... Over a month after the car was stolen it was found abandoned in terrible condition in an impound lot: bullet holes in the roof

I wonder how the thieves knew it was a tracker and the author knows it was ditched because of it's discovery.

I do believe it's a contrived story as an attempt at "viral" marketing.

Flagged. This is an ad.

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