Ask HN: Does anyone else miss TouchID? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Does anyone else miss TouchID?

83 pointsdevstein103 comments

Don’t get me wrong, FaceID is an incredible, futuristic piece of technology, yet I find myself missing the simplicity of TouchID.

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FaceID doesn't work with mask. Even on iOS 15.4 it only works for unlocking, and not for payment. ( Which seems like there are two level of security with Face ID, but I haven't seen any decent explanation yet)

Touch ID also works better with payment situation where you need to authenticate after you touched the NFC. So you dont need to bring it up to your Face again, with Touch ID you are moving your fingers only.

Most if not all of these aren't US problems. That is why Apple doesn't really cares about it. And hence it is unlikely to come back. We would have had supply chain leaks if power button Touch ID is heading to iPhone 14 given the volume required.

The other thing I really like about Touch ID, when I move my finger on top, it is a single action / signal to my brain to say I am authenticating something. And not having to push the power button twice for FaceID in certain situation is also a plus. Unlocking a phone on the table without having to pick it up in front of my face, especially during meetings.

May be a wearable like Apple Watch is the solution to all of these. But I dislike Apple watch. Digital Crown should be in the middle, and I still prefer my watch in circle. And I just dont like charging my watch every other day.

For me, the biggest pain point with Touch ID was that it didn't work well in the rain, which is precisely the moment when the touch screen for manual password doesn't work all that great either.

I'm hoping masks are more of a transient thing, long-term, than the rain.

FaceID doesn’t work with sunglasses on either. It would be nice if we could just have both to cover most weather scenarios. Of course too much face covering and gloves in the winter and neither are going to work then (;

It works with sunglasses for me, which has always made me wonder how well it's actually working

It definitely doesn’t work with mine, just a black pair of Ray-Bans. I just tried it again to make sure it hasn’t changed with the latest update. I use my phone as an offline GPS for hiking and it’s been a constant frustration for me, as there is a significant delay before it gives you the keypad after FaceID fails. I’ve tried setting up an “alternative appearance” in FaceID with my sunglasses on and it just complains that my face is obstructed.

If it can't see your eyes because you have lenses that block infrared light, then it can't tell if you're looking at the screen.

You can turn off "Required Attention for Face ID" in the Settings as a workaround.

If I designed the system, I would be continuously training the FaceID model to account for false negatives based on a correctly entered PIN after a failed FaceID unlock.

When FaceID was announced, they also said it should also continue to work with varying amounts of facial hair - which I have also found to be true.

FaceID works off of infrared light, so if your lenses don't block those wavelengths, it works.

The "trick" for this to work flawlessly (at least for myself) is to set up regular face-ID; and then setup an "alternate" appearance with sunglasses or whatever other items/accessories might cause problems.

Never had any issues; especially if you setup the alternate appearance with a mask / partially obstructed face.

Polarized sunglasses block the phone's sensors, so it can't confirm you're actually looking at the screen—That someone isn't trying to unlock it e.g. while you're asleep.

If you turn off "Require Attention for Face ID" in Face ID settings it'll work with sunglasses.

According to Apple, "Face ID is designed to work with hats, scarves, glasses, contact lenses, and many sunglasses." (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208108) and from my experience, it works fine with my polarized sunglasses, but it sounds like it doesn't work for everyone.

I was doing work with latex gloves on (clean and dry) and was shocked to find that Touch ID on my iPhone 8+ worked pretty reliably through the glove.

I know you mentioned not liking the Apple Watch, but if you do have one, FaceID works just fine with masks when you have an Apple Watch paired and the feature enabled.

It works just fine until it doesn't. I went on a trip last week that involved frequent mask wearing. Unlock with Apple Watch worked on the first day, then every unlock after that involved typing in my passcode or pulling down my mask. No amount of restarting/airplane mode cycling got it working again... until I got home.

> FaceID doesn't work with mask.

The latest iOS beta adds this.

The year FaceID came out I was in a country where mask wearing was popular (pre-covid) I was so frustrated that my new phone couldn't open easily and this is after years of Apple claiming to promote "diversity". Instead of only focusing on hiring people with the same backgrounds who look different, I wish they would actually focus on getting people who live differently.

> there are two level of security with Face ID, but I haven't seen any decent explanation yet

Easy answer: confidence intervals

> Even on iOS 15.4 it only works for unlocking, and not for payment. ( Which seems like there are two level of security with Face ID, but I haven't seen any decent explanation yet)

I thought this was sucky also, but then realized payment could be done with my Apple Watch without unlocking as long as the watch was unlocked (and is somewhat secure because the watch auto locks when it comes off your wrist). This is really convenient, and now I’m using my watch for most of my payments.

> May be a wearable like Apple Watch is the solution to all of these. But I dislike Apple watch. Digital Crown should be in the middle, and I still prefer my watch in circle. And I just dont like charging my watch every other day.

Ah, so you already know the trick then, but can’t take advantage of it. Holding out will get worse as things like AutoKey become more pervasive (unlock your car or house by bringing your watch up to the lock, no unlock or explicit activation needed). Also, you can use your watch to unlock your phone (I guess, my security policy at work doesn’t let me try it).

Not an iPhone user, but I have the option of touch or face on Android, and I prefer touch. Why? Because I know exactly when my screen will light up - when I touch it. Way too many embarrassing moments with face unlock turning the screen on a second before I was ready, while trying to show someone something.

> Way too many embarrassing moments with face unlock turning..

That's not a FaceID issue, that's an Android issue. iPhones will not automatically log into the phone after it unlocks, it stays on the lock screen.

There is something I don’t like about Face ID. The phone does not have the button press to know when to turn the screen on so it tries to guess. It often turns the screen on for no reason, and then buttons on the screen can acidentally be pressed. It often turns my music off or turns my flashlight on and I end up walking around with my pants pocket glowing.

Turning the phone to face away from my body helps, and is the opposite of what I used to do.

Same problem here, I often activate the camera/flashlight by picking it up off the table. And because I have an Apple Watch it unlocks due to the proximity, and I sometimes accidentally launch apps. It's a shame the Apple Watch unlock doesn't ever work when I actually want to use the phone.

I think this relates to Raise to Wake? You can turn this feature off so the screen will only turn on if you tap on it.

It is in Settings > Display Brightness.

Edit: Personally I think this should have been the default option.

Thanks! Yes I will do that.

Yes.... But you know what I REALLY miss that I didn't expect to? Touchbar on the Macbook Pro. I hated that stupid touch bar, but on the new macbook pro it's gone, and I miss it so much. I'm dyslexic and having the words pop up predictively made me so efficient, I find myself going back to my old macbook pro when doing long from writing as I'm considerably faster on it as I don't have to stop and think about every single word. If someone wrote an app that mimics the touchbar predictive text, I'd buy it.

I wish the M1's had it too, I skipped everything by holding onto a maxed out mid-2015 mbp. I'm glad Apple got rid of the butterfly keyboard, added ports back, but I was never against the touch bar, I wanted to play with it. I think I would have had an issue missing a separate function key bar though.

i wish the touch bar was slightly shorter and the keyboard had a dedicated escape key instead. the function keys i use much less frequently.

The 2020 mac book pro does have an escape key left to the touch bar.

(and touch id on the other side! the topic of this thread)

awesome!

The person you replied to found touch bar simulators to be a solution. Check above.

Surely there is someone who could program an on-screen predictive box that is more easily readable than this current possible solution for this [0]. Maybe this TouchBar simulator is something that you could try [1]? I wonder if it works on machines that don't have it at all.

[0] https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/326664/can-i-get-w...

[1] https://github.com/sindresorhus/touch-bar-simulator

Huzzzzza! The touch bar simulator worked perfectly!I will make a donation to that developer. Thanks!

I loved the Touchbar from day one. I ultimately had about 60 custom buttons spread across a dozen apps. Now I’m back to wondering if F4 is mapped to “toggle responsive design mode” or “clear cache and refresh”.

The touch bar was very interesting tech! My favorite use was scrubbing songs/videos and being able to adjust the brightness of my monitor and screen independently. That's where the tech shined- having context-dependent UI elements. When you hit the physical brightness button, you just have to guess what's going to get adjusted.

I think with most things, the answer here was to have a mix of keys and buttons. With 100% TB, it's slow to change volume/brightness. With 100% keys, I've got all these extra keys I can't use (you can re-bind them with 3rd party software, but it's fairly static).

I'd personally pull like, F3-F9 in favor of a touch bar, and then be able to configure the remaining buttons. I'm a little sad reaction was so strongly against the idea on the whole, it definitely had potential.

Agreed, I like it. It's basically just a display for Spotify, but it's very handy.

Make it shorter, put in a physical escape key and it'd be perfect.

If you want both face and fingerprint unlocks, the Android ecosystem has many options for you, even though I don't think any of them has face unlocks that are as "secure" as the iPhone's. If you want to stick to iOS, the SE still has a good ol' TouchID sensor and I'm pretty happy with mine, with my only complaint being the anemic battery life. If you want an SE, I would advise holding off for a few weeks, as it is expected to get a refresh in March.

I use a 2nd gen iPhone SE and TouchID is great. FaceID seems like a downgrade.

I find FaceID a lot less convenient, as double clicking rapidly on my dominant hand is difficult for me due to an medical/accessibility issue and of course having to pull down my mask to authenticate is *literally* pathological in a pandemic.

I noticed double click speed is also difficult for my grandparents who don’t have the same condition I do but they had no issues with older TouchID based phones. Double click-to-FaceID comes up quite frequently with use, enough to give my grandparents the impression that “this phone won’t work for me”. It’s a shame.

I’m strictly in the Apple ecosystem but was pretty surprised when I saw a friend’s Google phone with fingerprint based biometric authentication through the screen. Hope Apple develops something similar.

Double clicking the power button can be difficult for me without any medical issues. It always seemed like a weird choice for a company that cares a lot about accessibility

I don't have related medical issues either, but sometimes my thumb is stiff from the cold and doing the double click through a phone case is difficult.

> I’m strictly in the Apple ecosystem but was pretty surprised when I saw a friend’s Google phone with fingerprint based biometric authentication through the screen. Hope Apple develops something similar.

That's pretty much standard on all flagship Android-based phones, and has been for some time ( i want to say around two years). It's pretty handy because your fingers are already there if you're going to use the phone ( either index if it's lying on a flat surface or thumb if it's in your hand).

Yup. Not sure why I couldn't have a sensor on the back.

The apple-pay workflow is far clunkier even without a mask, with lots of "double clicking" to authorise in addition to lining up the face.

Apple has this idea that as few ports and buttons as possible is better because design. No amount of evidence to the contrary can change their minds. Form over function.

jony ive is not at apple anymore, so maybe there's still hope.

I go back and forth- each works much better than the other in certain situations, which makes it tough to 100% want one over the other. I only got a FaceID phone late 2021, so I'd become very used to TouchID.

FaceID is better for:

  * in-app auth- when an app (e.g. a financial one) has a secondary auth check, FaceID passes without extra effort- it's very slick. For TouchID, I usually had to move my phone to the button (because it wasn't already there)
  * using unmasked- It's fast enough that under normal (unmasked) circumstances, it works great
  * dirty/wet hands - especially since the phones are waterproof, it was always annoying to have to do my passcode if my hands weren't totally dry. I didn't think it would come up a lot, but it did

TouchID was better for:

  * Pandemics. The Apple watch unlock works 70% of the time, but that's not 100 _and_ you have to own a separate, expensive piece of hardware. They're fixing this in the latest iOS beta (FaceID can learn your face w/ a mask on by checking details around the eyes).
  * Bed- my face is usually squished on a pillow and the phone is close to my face; it can basically never be read

---

So, it seems like there's no silver bullet. Both would be great, but I think I understand why they made the tradeoffs they did.

I didn't miss the headphone jack that seemed to be such a flashpoint, and that's after over a decade of having a cord from ears down into my pocket. Honestly I'm kind of thankful to Apple for pushing me to bluetooth headsets - they had come a long way since the one-eared cyborg-wannabe device of the mid 00's.

That is to say I try not to be too much of a curmudgeon (not always successfully), but I still miss TouchID. I like the intentionality of putting my finger on the scanner to unlock rather than waving a phone in front of my face and making sure I've got the right distance and angle.

It doesn't help that mask wearing became common just after FaceID took over. So yes, I miss it too.

Yes, and I think Apple knew that FaceID is basically not as good of an experience in a variety of circumstances but decided that having an (almost) unobstructed screen was worth it. I hope one day we get it back in some form.

A fingerprint reader on the back is the solution here. Once you're used to it, it's a far superior placement than the old home button location.

I wouldn’t mind if future iPhone models integrated Touch ID into the sleep button (as some iPad models do now), but I’m not sure that I’d want dedicated front bezel or a cutout on the back for it. In-screen readers are a possibility (many Android phones implement this) but those seem very hit or miss in terms of performance and overcomplicated compared to just making a button host the feature instead.

But overall, Face ID works well enough, at least when paired with an Apple Watch for payments (reducing need to use Face ID in masked situations).

FaceID doesn't work with masks which makes it essentially useless for a large part of the day for a huge number of people. The only way to somewhat fix this appears to be to buy an Apple Watch.

FYI If you have an Apple Watch, FaceID works just fine with masks.

Latest iOS update added unlock with a mask.

Yup! I really miss TouchID. I upgraded an old iPhone 6 to iPhone 12 mini last year, but I find FaceID sometimes a little annoying to use (with and without covid mask, but specially with it). Many times I find myself turning the screen off and on just so it can get a new GO on trying to look at my face and unlocking the phone. And many times I end up typing my 6 digit pin.

I can't tell which one is more "secure" though, but I found TouchID really convenient.

Not TouchID, but I specifically bought a last-gen Android phone with a fingerprint reader because I hate Face Unlock (or whatever it's called now). Being able to unlock my phone at a simple touch as soon as it leaves my pocket is awesome, and beats having to glare at the screen which breaks when I'm wearing sunglasses or a mask.

Not at all. In fact it appears to be a problem for older people. Both my parents it doesn’t work well for I suspect due to poor dexterity as you get older and skin problems.

I prefer my Apple Watch and proximity unlocking. That is fairly decent and works without touching or staring at anything on my iPhone and MacBook.

I’m typing this on an iPhone 8+ because I’m unwilling to move to faceid only. So I admit I’m coming from a position of ignorance, having never relied on faceid day to day. Part of my reluctance is that I want to authenticate when I choose to. FaceID feels like I can’t do that. Hold my device in front of my face and it will unlock whether I want it to or not. I’m already staring at the phone when an app asks to authenticate. I like the fact that I have to deliberately move my thumb to the reader to authenticate.

I have had to unlock my phone while driving so my partner can get something. Her finger isn’t authorised. :) I can touch my phone and unlock it without looking away from the road. FaceID seems badly suited for the car, unless you just have your phone unlocked all the time or CarPlay.

Im the same you only a regular iphone 8 not +.

I think the iphone se is made for people like us:)

But I dont plan on upgrading until this ones stops working.

Ideally I can find a phone that has a removable battery, then I dont think I would ever need to upgrade.

I miss Touch ID and the home button.

It might be my age talking, but the current gesture-based UX feels like walking on banana peels.

Several times a day, I end up registering a left or right swipe, when I actually meant to swipe up or down. It used to infuriate me, but I've given up now and just sigh and move on.

No, because it hasn't gone anywhere. Apple still sell iPhones that support Touch ID (I have the latest iPhone SE which is still quite recent), and they have included it on the macbook pro for several years.

If Touch ID is important to you then just buy the current-model iPhone SE that supports it.

One thing I miss from my Samsung phones (I've moved to pixel which only has touch):

Having the choice of both!

Sometimes FaceID is better, and sometimes (or a lot given the past 2 years) TouchID is better. We have the technology. They're not mutually exclusive.

Don't miss it at all because I have an iPhone SE that supports it. If you don't need your phone to have a ton of screen-on hours each day there's not much reason to spend the money on the bigger notch-y editions.

Yes. I hate that FaceID replaced touchID. In reality, both techs, can serve really well different situations and would be much better complementing each other. E.g. Wearing a mask or having your fingers wet.

TouchID is inconvenient in the winter if you wear gloves. However, you need to take off your gloves anyway.

However, Face ID does not work with my sun glasses on, and I don't need to take my sun glasses off to view and use my phone. It also doesn't work well with face masks (iOS 15.3) though we're now getting rid of them in the Netherlands.

Yes, I do miss Touch ID and if this cannot be fixed in software, I really like a back-side Touch ID in addition to Face ID. Face ID _is_ intelligent in many cases and it is a good addition.

I find you mostly need to take your winter gloves off to do anything with the device once it is unlocked, anyway. You can kind of take photos using the volume button, but good luck changing the mode or zoom.

I don’t like FaceID and that’s why I haven’t bought a newer iPhone. Apple should offer both TouchID and FaceId options on every phone. Allowing choices is what’s most important to me.

The SE is still on sale and likely to be updated sometime in the next month or so. There’s no way to make it an option within the “same” phone, as the design that allows TouchID necessarily requires a different design.

I am still on an iPhone SE 2 in part because I prefer TouchID.

It's not really even that old of a phone. It was released 21 months ago.

iphone 8 is still a perfectly serviceable phone if you don't play games.

i've got the new SE and it's perfect - just the right size, touch id, doesn't cost an arm and a leg (compared to the bigger iphones, at least...), got a good-enough camera.

And the 5G version for this year is expected to have an updated SoC. So basically a completely modern iPhone in the old iPhone 8 shell.

For some reason, TouchID wouldn't work well with my fingers. I'd have to reenroll the same finger every few weeks for it to be reliable (probably related to medical condition - I have unusually salty skin, as well as a condition that can cause finger-tip clubbing). That said, I feel it has been improved, as I don't seem to have that issue with my TouchID MBP and Magic Keyboard.

I like FaceID better personally. It's instant, to the point I forget that my phone is locked. All of the TouchID phones I've tried have a delay. Plus moving your finger to the sensor is just one more thing to think about.

My only gripe is that, with the Apple Watch unlock option (for masks), it sometimes unlocks when it's not even pointed at my face, which is not something I want.

Everyday.

I held out as long as possible until my Touch ID phone died. I envy my Touch ID iPad every time I use it. Plus Face ID is slow. With Touch ID, I instinctively pick up my phone by touching the home button so it is unlocked and ready to use immediately. With Face ID, the delay is unavoidable. So many missed photos…

I love touch ID and don’t like the idea of using a camera for authentication. I also love the home button. I’ve tried newer phones without, and I find it very inefficient and unpredictable. Plus, I like the feel of a physical button. I refuse to upgrade until there is either an in-display sensor, or they make the notch unnoticeable.

Honestly no. I have a work phone with touchID and my personal phone uses faceid and I feel like faceid is just as convenient.

Pain when using Apple pay when wearing a mask though. (I know about the Apple watch addition to the solution).

Even without masks I preferred touch ID, you're advertising your phone more when you're staring at it, was always more seamless with touch ID.

I always had the Apple Watch solution, but I see what you mean. I live in a colder climate so I wear gloves often and the faceid is more convenient there. Both have their pros and cons.

Gloves in colder climate is a great point. Shows how wide product designers need to think when it comes to mass adoption.

I upgraded from 1st generation SE to 13 pro recently, was disappointed that they didn't throw a fingerprint reader in there somewhere so that you can choose the right auth for the right occasion.

FaceID was a miracle for the two months I had my iPhone 11 before the pandemic hit. Still, the extra screen space created by removing the top and bottom bezels was well worth it. If only all the apps played nice with the home bar at the bottom: too many will register a swipe down on the bar for reachability as a tap in the app.

No, I’m still holding out with my original iPhone se. Seriously, how does faceId even work with a mask on?

Same here. The 2016 is still awesome and even gets all the OS updated so far. I hope this will continue because even the new SE is too big, in my opinion.

++ original SE. A little large compared to the 4S but the TouchID is great. Saw current gen nighttime photos on a camping trip and am reconsidering though...

I wonder if the rest of our hands (sans finger tips) are unique "enough" for the purpose of unlocking phones. Would be nice if just holding the phone naturally (palm touching one side of phone and part of a few fingers touching the other side) would be sufficient.

Probably, but the actual hardware would need to cover the entire phone, which I think would be the issue. Not sure if that'd have battery life implications as well.

FaceID sucks in the car when mounted on dash. Find myself moving my face around to login sometimes while trying to watch the road based on mount location. TouchID can be used easily while maintaining constant eyes on the road.

Yes. I'm wearing helmets or masks (motorcycle helmet, full-face balaclavas) that obscure my face all the time and sometimes I just disable FaceID entirely. I don't hate it, I just wish I had both options.

TouchID on a motorcycle usually isn't that much better because gloves. It's still quicker to pull a card from my wallet and tap-to-pay at the gas station.

I ride a bicycle everywhere, and will frequently pull out the iPhone to check map directions. With the TouchID phone, I could tug it just out of the pocket at waist height, unlock, and glance down. Now I have to lift it up and give it my full attention to unlock. Sucks, hugely inferior.

I would probably still stick to FaceID for the big oled screen, but it they added the fingerprint sensor to the lock button a la iPad Air, that seems like the best of every world!

I missed it when wearing a mask, but I recently got an Apple watch and that solves it for me.

I still have touch id on my iPad and I truly miss face id, I find it quicker and more accurate. Often I find myself staring at my iPad haha.

If FaceID works with a mask (a commenter says that the new beta does), then to what extent might it actually be retinal scanning ? iPhone cameras have sufficient resolution, don't they ?

I find the back of phone placement for touch ID unlock which is on most android phones far more convenient. It's a more natural location and feels much faster to access most of the time.

On the phone, yes.

I much prefer TouchID to FaceID because I explicitly control when I want things unlocked.

On my Mac, since I use a Windows machine alongside it and it unlocks with Windows Hello, I really miss FaceID.

Go figure.

I don’t like FaceID and that’s why I haven’t bought a newer iPhone. Apple should offer both TouchID and FaceId options on every phone. Allowing choices is what’s most important.

I really like using ApplePay on my phone and FaceID is a huge step backwards for authorizing payments. It's super awkward when paying and has gotten worse with mask use.

Nope! My S10e has an ergonomic fingerprint reader that doubles as a gesture pad for bringing down the notificanotification shade. For some of us, it never really left.

I don't miss it. I still use my iPhone 8. When it dies, I'll get an iPhone SE. I will keep TouchID until they pry it out from under my cold dead thumb.

Yes. I'm still daily driving my iPhone 8+ as it nears age 5, hoping that before September there will be a TouchID iPhone as a pandemic gift to all of us.

The US Customs and Border Control loves FaceID. It makes it easier for them to unlock your phone without your consent. Google it.

I want both for redundancy. Each method has coverage of 90% use cases, both would be 99.9% especially if it was full screen.

I've just changed the battery on my iPhone SE. Here's to another year of avoiding Face ID.

I don't. I've got an iPhone SE.

Yes

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