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Comment by xorfish | Hacker News Reader

What can be done if are on your 20s or early 30s to reduce or even avoid the dip in satisfaction at age 40 or ~10 years into a relationship?

My personal belief is that freeing up some time for your future self may help with that.

For me that means I want a career where you can reduce to a 24 hour or less work per week. Now I work more to save and invest money to give my future self more options in how to balance children, work, friendships, sleep and hobbies without having to worry much about finances.

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Be wealthy. Don’t have kids. One of the biggest quality of life hits based on other research I have read is having kids and not having enough money. Or just choose your partner well. Relationship satisfaction is relative anyhow. So even if it dips you can still be objectively happy.

Also, I'd add "Be Healthy"...

While there are some things you can do in your 20s to help you be healthy in your 40s; genetics can be a factor and cause serious issues.

I really think studies like that should be taken with a grain of salt. Polling people's current rate of life satisfaction while they are sleep deprived and changing diapers is very different than being 90 years old in a nursing home with no children or grandchildren

Sure, I tend to agree. Overall life satisfaction (e: in the long term) is higher for people with kids according to other studies, heh. So I think other studies confirm that notion. Social science studies probably don’t replicate well anyhow. But some do and it often reflects general wisdom as you pointed out. There is rarely a simple answer. Just live life and be present as a habit is my motto.

Nursing homes aren’t full of childless people.

Correct. Those folks are long dead.

Assuming you’re over 65, you have up to 120 days of Medicare and however long it takes to liquidate your assets. From there you’re a Medicaid ward, and without advocates, particularly as a male, you’re not a profit center and won’t last too long.

Supposing you were lucky to have a mild enough problem to seek a hospital in first place. Older people living alone are at risk of a quickly incapacitating heart attack or stroke, with nobody to perceive it and call help.

Most people don't make it a year regardless. Once you're in bad enough shape to need a nursing home, it's rare for anyone to last long. Being sick enough to not be able to handle activities of daily living has a worse prognosis than pretty much any disease.

It depends. Like anything else, it's a bell curve. Alot of people lose their ability to do things but aren't sick otherwise. Dementia, etc.

If you have an acute event and end up not progressing through rehab... then yeah you're on a clock. The gross part is that the facility knows it and treats you like an animal.

I'd really like to know if overall if people are happier with or without kids. I know a few dad's who have said if they had the choice now they'd say no. But long term I'm not sure.

My only regret as a parent is how badly I wasted my time before becoming a parent. So much free time wasted.

Another question I'd like to know the answer to: is having more than one child better for the whole family?

On More kids, anecdotally, it really does help. Especially in pandemic time.

The extra effort after one is pretty much a wash, but I see so many parents that spend so much time entertaining, and hanging with their kid. There's nothing wrong with that but it's not at all how we were raised.

I think there's something really beneficial to just going out into the world with someone who knows about as much as you and exploring. No one standing there telling you the answer or why right away.

You can play with your kid, but you'll never be let's get sticks and play pretend Zelda for 2 hours focused like two kids might.

Mine craft buddies? For sure.

Rainy day monopoly? Definitely.

Homework help? They do that too though sometimes need an adult. Nthe little one is really good at math and the older is a better reader/speller.

When we go to dinner, my wife and I can sit across from each other and enjoy a conversation and our kids usually talk/play games/do art together.

The amount of time they spend together takes a burden off of being a parent that I see my friends and other parents carry.

They are more like roommates to us than massive chores because we have time to do other things in life without feeling guilty because there is a board child that need socialization and attention.

They are kids, they need adult help and input but they don't need to be entertained every minute of the day.

I also am willing to factor that being able to afford 2 children in the city may hint at other problems we don't have. I recognize that's generally quite the privledged place to be and don't take it for granted.

This is very persuasive. Right now I don't know how anyone manages more than one. I currently feel like I have zero free time. The thought of adding a new born to the mix fills me with fear!

In the 20 years or so you are raising kids, probably less happy. In the 20 years after they are adults probably more happy. It really depends on a lot. The thing about all of these social science studies is they can only measure broadly. They are very hard to use as an individual to make good choices because there are so many factors. I know parents who absolutely love it and it brings them a lot of joy, even with young kids. I know other parents who really did not enjoy certain phases of their kids development. My wife and I are somewhere in the middle. Teenagers are challenging, but alright if you did a good job in the years before they became teenagers most of the time. If you ask someone deep in a tough moment of raising children of course they will be more likely to say no. Ask them when their kids have graduated college or moved onto to the career phase of their life and see what their answer is :]

Anecdotally, as a sibling (eldest) I can tell you that my life is improved immensely by having siblings, and they'd say the same.

*Be wealthy. Don’t have kids. Die young.

Find the right partner, but recognize no partner will be perfect as such. Be grateful for them, communicate, be honest with yourself and them.

A lot of people are saying this trend is about kids, and it might be. But at least in my experience there's maybe something else too, something about the internal relationship dynamics of trust and expectation. Early on I think there's a lot in a relationship based on expectations, and a certain distrust or something, even if you aren't aware of it. As the relationship continues, your expectations are not met in some ways, which interacts with distrust to cause issues. But then at some point those trust issues resolve, and you learn your positive expectations weren't too far off the mark either.

Every relationship is different. I'm not sure how you could prepare except to be patient, open, and empathetic.

I initially wanted to say, "don't have kids", but I actually don't see that as a huge correlate in my friends group. People I know without kids (myself included) have suffered from listlessness and lack of sense of purpose in their 30s, which leads to unhappiness.

I think the bigger correlate is -- make sure you are with the right person, persons, or no-one, who are capable and willing to be open, trusting, honest, communicative, and constructive, and who have a healthy balance of selflessness and selfishness. People change, and relationships must change to weather those changes (or not) -- and that can only happen if you and your partner(s) can recognize and communicate those changes far ahead of time -- and work to adapt or move on from the relationship as appropriate.

There's no coherent grand strategy. The world is structurally hostile to families and men and it's getting worse. It was hard enough in previous generations because men and women are in an adversarial relationship courtesy of mother nature. Nowadays on top of it many governments are destroying what little was left of a traditional society. It may not make a lot of sense to young people. You'll see what I mean once you are on the other side of 40.

There are a few contradictory data points to keep in mind.

* at age 40 a "dip in satisfaction" won't be your most pressing concern

* marriage can be justified only by raising children

* after 40 your life is literally meaningless if you have no children

* a woman will want a child; those in their twenties who are lukewarm about it will be desperate by mid-30s

* once a woman gets a child you will be a very distant priority for her

* taking care of a child is a nearly full time job; earning enough to let your woman do it is a luxury only a few occupations such as programming can afford

* a child is not guaranteed to share your interests/aspirations or even have a similar psychological profile; it could be a girl

* a married man has no legal protection whatsoever and all the incentives are in place for women to take advantage of you. How decent you are or productive as a member of the society makes no difference. From what I have seen the correlation is negative - good men are hit the hardest.

Communicate. Men tend to overweigh financial stability as a relationship factor.

When my wife and I met, my roommates were eating by shoplifting slimjims from across the street.

We’re more prosperous these days, but the guys I’m around complaining about their wives mostly consciously or unconsciously avoid them. You may not be having circus sex as a couple in your 50s, but some folks slow down on talking too, and that’s how marriages fail.

Oof. I feel that.

I think realistic expectations are key. You're not going to be in love allnthe time. That's an emotional high that yoy cant reproduce all the time, in the mean time, you can be patient, and understanding and empathetic.

You cant feel it allnthe time, but you can work to care for your partner regardless. they wont feel it all the time, but you can be patient and keep showing them love.

Being good to someone when they don't deserve it shows a lot more love then being all over them when you are feeling it.

carve out time for selfcare. bith for yourself and your partner. When someone snaps, don't respond with, 'why are you such a bitch?' (spoken or thought) instead try, 'You sound stressed, go take a bath and get your nails done' or 'why don't you take the afternoon off and I'll handle things around here's

If you do that when they don't deserve it, it's gonna go a long way.

Invest in yourself as well, really strive to understand who you are, what you like, and why you do what you do. That can help with those times when your partner triggers a strong negative feeling but you don't quite know what or why. Of course you'd love it if they never did that again but if you don't understand the why, a different but similar action could have the same effect and resentment starts to build.

To be honest though I wonder how much is luck? My wife and I have pretty open communication and have gotten to where we aren't easily offended by each other which makes undesirable behavior bearable and then the good times are a delight. Not all relationships have that.

Nevermind that dip. The bigger problem is if your relationship ends up unhappy or broken and never rebounds. The solution to that seems to be to develop some kind of codependent loving emotional connection. Codependency sounds scary because it's also a source of severe unhappiness and abuse but when it's loving instead of toxic, it's supposed to be the best thing ever.

> For me that means I want a career where you can reduce to a 24 hour or less work per week. Now I work more to save and invest money to give my future self more options in how to balance children, work, friendships, sleep and hobbies without having to worry much about finances.

Blink. Blink.

Yes, being rich is, famously, a great way to free up time and mental energy for other things, sure.

Be honest with yourself and your partner. Get therapy. People can be happy or miserable regardless of the situation.

In college I was surrounded by female friends that shared the same interests as myself. However, the only thing I really cared about was attractiveness. I'm not sure when this switched for me exactly but I'm happy it did.

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