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Comment by fxtentacle | Hacker News Reader

I bicycle a lot more than I drive. But I have to say, some of my fellow cyclists are really obnoxious assholes. Like driving 2 next to each other with 20km/h in a 100km/h area. Of course all the cars that have to wait for them are going to be pissed. And especially so if those morons drive on the road even when there's a perfectly workable dedicated bike lane next to the road. And why is it that elderly men who drive super slowly always feel the need to dress up in neon-colored skin-tight pants?

One the one hand, I believe car drivers are somewhat rational in hating cyclists, because 10-20% of them really are assholes.

On the other hand, I am scared that their reaction to asshole bicycle drivers also affects my own bicycling safety.

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You seem to be a cyclist so I'm surprised that you never appear to have been scared by a car passing you closely at 100km/h? Anything less than 2m away at this speed is likely to feel very scary to the cyclist.

So whether there are two cyclists or just one makes no difference, you've likely got to veer into the next lane to pass anyway.

I usually drive on the bicycle path, so there's no risk of cars driving by very closely.

I think 10-20% is a wild overstatement. There are certainly cyclists who do stupid and inconsiderate things (and in my experience those people are generally reprimanded by other cyclists), but just because they are doing something that you as a driver find inconvenient doesn't make them assholes. For instance, riding side-by-side is often a deliberate strategy because cars will often try to pass you without veering into the opposite lane or slowing down at all. Depending on the width of the traffic lane this is probably illegal (at least where I live and you are required to give cyclists 3 feet of space when passing). Riding side by side just forces the driver to do what they should be doing anyway. Likewise, if a cyclist is in the road despite their being a bike lane, it is quite often for a reason. Believe it or not we do not enjoy riding within inches of cars and try to avoid it if possible. Sometimes bike lanes are full of debris and broken glass and it is safer to ride in the lane than have a tire blowout at high speed.

I genuinely believe the number might be that high in my area.

We have regular events organized by people who like bicycling where they deliberately drive on the road and then stop to create huge traffic jams. The organizers proclaim that this is to demonstrate for their right of way on the road. But obviously the government disagrees and banned them, so people will post suggestions on Facebook and then people will "spontaneously" go on a bicycle trip together and block a main road on Friday evening.

If you don't believe in their cause, that's mainly a huge provocation to everyone else. Especially because these events regularly ignore traffic rules.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling)

"Because Critical Mass takes place without an official route or sanction, participants in some cities have sometimes practiced a tactic known as "corking" in order to maintain the cohesion of the group. This tactic consists of a few riders blocking traffic from side roads so that the mass can freely proceed through red lights without interruption"

"criticized to be contrary to Critical Mass' claim that "we are traffic", since ordinary traffic does not have the right to go through intersections once the traffic signal has changed to red"

"an event known as "Critical Manners" was created as a response to Critical Mass. Critical Manners rides through the city on the second Friday of the month, with riders encouraged to obey all traffic laws such as stopping at red lights and signaling"

If you have a counter-event that encourages people to obey the law, that might be a hint as to how the majority views your event ;)

Yeah, I agree that Critical Mass is wildly counter-productive but would also be extremely surprised if anywhere close to 10-20% of regular cyclists participate in such events.

I get what you're saying but around here we have cyclists who ride 2 abreast to stop dangerous passing (a common problem) and it pisses of drivers, but we have farmers who drive tractors even slower than the cyclists and nobody seems to mind.

One is making food for the community, the other is just enjoying a personal hobby. Makes sense the former would be instinctively judged more leniently than the latter.

> just enjoying a personal hobby

wtaf!!

I mean, what is the point of life if engaging in your hobbies is fair game for hostility from society? The thought that this is something a lot of people actually think scares me to the core.

Inside a car, pretty much anything becomes "fair game for hostility" - and I say that as somebody who doesn't own one. Something about going at high speed, just gets the worst out of people. It's the same with bikes going fast vs bikes going slow, or any bike vs pedestrians - the "I'm going faster so gtfo my way" mindset is incredibly natural, in all the worst ways.

So... when I'm commuting to work it's a hobby?

Why do people wear 'cycling clothing'? Because, unless you have a short commute, having padded shorts makes riding more comfortable.

If someone is riding slowly, but still riding for a reasonably long time, having padding is a significant comfort.

..then you follow up saying it's rational to hate.

And is it REALLY 10-20%, or is it just that you're so used to asshole drivers that you just REMEMBER the cyclists who ride badly, and thus inflate the number mentally?

I say this as someone who regularly rides ~100-150 miles per week, and pre-covid commuted to work every day.

You sound like you're a part of the problem. A rant about clothing, and motorists are "rational in hating cyclists", because "10-20% of them are assholes"?

Well, when I drive my bicycle, I usually look like a regular person and I drive on the bicycle lane. And it seems no car driver feels bothered by that.

If we want car drivers to be less angry, maybe it makes sense to stop doing what makes them angry.

Also, there is plenty of bicyclists who have a strong reaction towards car drivers, because they had bad experiences in the past. I think 10% asshole ratio is enough to train people to subconsciously expect the worst, even if it is still statistically unlikely.

Try as I might, I still don’t understand what clothing a person is wearing has to do with anything.

Othering.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30414724

What's your deal with what some people wear to exercise? Is that a fetish or something of yours?

Well, the article is about "dehumanisation of cyclists". I would expect that it is a lot easier to dehumanize people that look really different from anyone else. If most friendly bicycle drivers wear regular clothing and most entitled bicycle drivers wear neon pink, over time car drivers will come to expect a certain behavior just based on looks alone.

> I would expect that it is a lot easier to dehumanize people that look really different from anyone else

I wonder when this has ever got us into trouble as a society before. Maybe check yourself if you find yourself experiencing feelings like this. "The gays" sometimes wear strange clothing just for fun. Do you think it's acceptable to dehumanize them too?

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