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Comment by peoplefromibiza | Hacker News Reader

> It always saddens me to see EU citizens talk in absolutes like that.

Unfortunate there are many European enemies of the EU.

It doesn't even have anything to do with EU administration: EU can't prevent Google trying to trick users into leaking their privates data and habits.

Not at least until Google reveals their plans on how they're gonna do it.

On a final note: we accepted two non-democratic countries in EU, Poland and Hungary, and these are the results.

They infected all the other countries, like COVID-19 has done with people.

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> we accepted two non-democratic countries in EU, Poland and Hungary, and these are the results.

I can't speak for Poland, but the political landscape of Hungary was different when it joined the EU, and the country was by no means considered non-democratic or EU-skeptic.

> They infected all the other countries

The EU was infected by rising inequality and the degradation of purchasing power by the middle class, which is a global issue that gives an opportunity for populists to gain power, and for the population to find scapegoats, like pointing fingers at a foreign country.

Poland's political landscape has also changed since they joined the EU, perhaps in a less spectacular way than in Hungary. Both countries are democracies, current leaders were elected in democratic elections. It's the adherence to the rule of law that's an issue in both cases.

> Both countries are democracies, current leaders were elected in democratic elections

Elections in which the ruling party has no real chance of being deposed, and thus no incentive to compete, aren’t democratic.

I don't think it's fair to put Poland and Hungary in that basket. It's not like they were like this when they joined the EU. They slowly drifted towards anti-EU sentiment over the years thanks to populist politicians. The same can happen to any country. The same happend to Britain.

Or they slowly drifted towards anti-EU sentiment due to the EU.

> Or they slowly drifted towards anti-EU sentiment due to the EU.

Poland, through 7 national and 17 regional programmes, benefitted from EU funding of EUR 91.3 billion under the 2014-2020 ESIF programmes (as of January 2022). This represented an average of 2 400 euro per person in the 2014 population

they didn't drift

they already had it in their belly, they simply hid it to take EU money and build their anti-democratic platforms.

Don't get fooled by appearances.

People of Hungary and Poland are not responsible for what's happening to them and to their countries and they do not deserve it.

I am not sure what are you getting at? Money is not significant factor in anti-EU sentiment, insisting it is only increases that sentiment.

Repetita Iuvant

they didn't drift

they already had it in their belly, *they simply hid it to take EU money and build their anti-democratic platforms*.

Money was the *most* important factor.

The anti-eu sentiment *was already there*

They simply did not have the money to lead, they were just some anti-communist nut.

Now they are uber rich nuts.

So yeah, in a way it was EU fault, because they invited them in and gave them a lot of money instead of leaving them in the good hands of uncle Putin.

One can argue that the EU itself is rather undemocratic, as the Parliament does not hold much power, and there isn't a clear separation between executive and legislative, as the Commission and the Council of Ministers both participate in the process.

> One can argue that the EU itself is rather undemocratic

Of course one can.

It doesn't make it correct though.

it's the only parliament in the world that can't legislate

repetita iuvant #2

You can of course think it

It doesn't make it correct though

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