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Comment by DamnableNook | Hacker News Reader

Kiwi bots aren't (weren't?) actually AI controlled. They had human drivers in South America that controlled them remotely. If one attacked you, it was either the human driver going agro, or just a problem with the latency of the camera -> cell network -> streamed to South America -> driver inputs command -> sent back to the US -> over the cell network -> back to the bot. And the cameras they have were pretty bad (the ordering app would show you the camera view when the bot was nearing its destination.)

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It's depressing to think that companies have normalized passing "mechanical turks" (exploiting workers from an impoverished country) as AI.

For more in that depressing vein, check out "Ghost Work: How to Stop Silicon Valley from Building a New Global Underclass" by Mary L. Gray

I will, I liked nickel and dimed so I'll give this a read. One side note, in looking up this book to purchase on Amazon, the hardcover is 2 bucks cheaper than the soft cover. I've seen this kind of thing quite a bit lately. What gives?

I've noticed this too. Hypothesis: Nobody wants books made of atoms any more, and the few that are selling are paperbacks. Therefore hardbacks are cheaper even though they're rarer and more expensive to produce.

Just a W.A.G...

Paperbacks have their price inflated to make the ebook look like a deal. Someone forgot to apply the markup to hardcover too.

If you liked Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed,"[0] you might like a few of her unrelated books as well. I highly recommend her "Dancing in the Streets,"[1] a 5,000 year history of the deadening of European culture (at Europeans' own hands, no less) that pairs nicely with Graeber's "Debt: The First 5,000"[2], a book of similar pacing, as well as a much shorter book on the gendered professionalization/demolition of the medical practice in the medieval era titled "Witches, Midwives, and Nurses" or "W.M.N."[3]

Her "Bait and Switch,"[4] however, about the white-collar unemployment industry I found dull and unenlightening.

0. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1869.Nickel_and_Dimed

1. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24452.Dancing_in_the_Str...

2. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6617037-debt

3. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24453.Witches_Midwives_a...

4. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24450.Bait_and_Switch

Those "exploited workers" probably made decent money relative to the cost of living in their location, and they got to do it from the comfort of a computer instead of hard labor in the sun, which is what someone in their same socioeconomic bracket would more likely be doing.

How would you know?

Have you ever been in "their" location living in "their" same socioeconomic bracket?

Would it bother you more if "their" was replaced with "our"?

Would you then consider it "decent" money?

If it was "our" citizens getting paid near (US) minimum wage to sit at home and monitor a robot all day then yes, I'd still be all for it. Teenage me would have much preferred that to fast food, and even adult me would happily take it as a second or interim job if needed and unable to find better paying work for some reason. And I'm sure it'd be a great opportunity for the physically disabled or other people unable to leave home.

This is a win for everyone involved. A US company gets to outsource easy work at a price below our minimum wage that they can afford to a population which can live happily with those lower wages due to their nations cost of living.

Minimum wage to drive a robot sounds way better than minimum wage in retail

> How would you know?

How do you know someone hired to drive a remote vehicle is being exploited?

"It is okay to pay sub-living national wages to foreigners in other countries because their cost of living is lower"

And I suppose you should also add they must stay there and never come to your country because then your job is at risk?

>"It is okay to pay wages below what we could live on to foreigners in other countries because their cost of living is lower"

FTFY. But, yes? How is that controversial?

>And I suppose you should also add they must stay there and never come to your country because then your job is at risk?

How do you draw that completely unrelated conclusion from the previous conversation?

Cost of living is irrelevant when the cost of certain goods like iPhones, computers, Internet subscriptions and other things is fundamentally determined by strong markets like USA or EU.

Or are you going to tell me that Indians don't deserve to use iPhones, watch Netflix, or learn new skills through online programmes? Because that would be pretty racist, and I don't suppose you consider yourself racist, do you?

Further, the fact some countries earn astronomically high wages means they can, when they retire, take everything with them, into a cheap country like Egypt, India, or Greece, and live like emperors. Is that fair? Especially when hard-working people in India can barely afford vacation in their own country.

Cost of Netflix minimum (non mobile) plan

US: $9.99=760₹

India: $2.6=199₹

Indians make less than 1/4th of an American salary. Your point?

> Cost of living is irrelevant when the cost of certain goods like iPhones, computers, Internet subscriptions and other things is fundamentally determined by strong markets like USA or EU.

Ah, the old "If you disagree with me then you're a racist". Please don't engage if you aren't going to engage in good faith, we're not on Reddit. I'm happy to be called wrong, but not if you're going to do so like that.

People deserve what they can afford. Are you suggesting we subsidize the cost of every luxury good so that everyone in the world regardless of income has access to said luxury good? It's a great notion, but the logistics are fundamentally impossible.

I can't afford a Ferrari. Do I not deserve a Ferrari? I can't afford a Rolex. Do I not deserve a Rolex? The answer is no, I don't deserve either of those things. I don't fundamentally deserve anything except for my own life. If I want anything else it's up to me to find a way to obtain it.

I believe (as of a few years ago) that Kiwi bots are semi-autonomous, meaning they do have someone watching the camera feed but the bots themselves can move in a given direction and will stop if an object is detected.

Source?

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