A Child’s TikTok Stardom Opens Doors. Then a Gunman Arrives
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
If you're a parent out there, that should be the biggest red-flag possible. I'm not one to advocate for total control over your family's online interactions, but if a ball like that starts rolling, you need to have a serious sit-down conversation with your teen about boundaries and what kind of crazy, obsessed people there are in the world. Feeding their cycle of obsession should be a non-starter for any guardian out there, and I'm frankly surprised to learn that her father, a former police officer, didn't start asking questions after $300 hit her bank account.
People used to call the tech industry a "brave new world" of finance and commerce. Influencer culture is a whole different level of psychological horror, though.
1. It's just "buy me a coffee" but for TikTok, it's not weird until creepy adults make it weird. One creator I follow gets a bunch of people sending her $0.69 for the memes. Lots of people use Amazon wishlists for this too. People with artistic talent will sell merch on Etsy/Redbubble.
2. Oh honey, I will make no claims about anyone but myself but I did this kinda shit when I was that age. I realized I was hot, I was a sponge for attention, and too stupid to realize that having older guys hitting on me and buying me stuff wasn't as cool as I thought. Amazing in hindsight that nothing bad ever came of it.
It's important not to overgeneralize, we're talking only about the 99th percentile of men on the desperation scale, and the 99th percentile of women willing and able to profit from them. Despite what you read on the internet most people still have normal relationships! Constructing your worldview from the 1% most extreme forms of human interaction will, in so many words, make you crazy.
For example, "going dutch" is getting more popular, but generally men are still expected to buy drinks or pay for dinner. Women have to be more careful about date rape than men. And so on.
The average man’s and woman’s dating experience are disjoint. The problems the other faces are alien because they don’t come up. Women don’t have any problems if they want to have sex. Men who want to get married and have children do not go looking for long if they’re actually looking.
[1] https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2017/05/04/in-grip-strength-a... [2] https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-b... [3] https://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/NET-POSTS/November-2017-(1)/...
Based on the number of couples who divorce or need a counselor to communicate, it's seems this trend continues during or after many marriages too.
They were aware and allowed it. But, not knowing the family's financial circumstances, it raises a difficult question of where to draw the line with this kind of thing. The prospect of allowing your underage daughter to sell media featuring her to this kind of guy is sickening, but if $300 is a lot of money to your family, maybe it becomes easier to excuse? What do you do if he offers $10,000 for something else that's even more disturbing, and you're behind on your mortgage payments?
I'm disappointed the author of the piece didn't come right out and say that what TikTok is doing is profiting off of the sexualization of minors (of course the minors get a cut as well, so that apparently makes it okay?). It seems like the only moral path forward would unfortunately be to ban minors from participating, or keep them reaching the levels of fame that would result in them putting themselves (or their families) in a position to have to make the kind of choice I'm talking about above.
Yes, that.
I am grateful that my parents denied me access to video games and I will strictly deny my children access to content deem counterproductive. You're not making friends you're making a human being. The idea that a child needs social media or a controller to have a social life is a weak argument made by lazy parents. I feel sorry for this girl and shame on her parents and parents like them.
But if you did this you would also be denying your kid access to virtually their entire cultural universe. How would you feel if as a kid you weren't allow to see any of your friends outside of school? Watch any of the same movies, music, or play any of the same games as your peers? It would almost be another form of abuse in and of itself. Unfortunately your suggestion isn't really tenable, just ask any actual parents of teenagers if they could imagine taking this route.
Human beings don’t have fully developed brains until age 25. Controlling kids’ interactions with other humans with underdeveloped brains is like the most critical part of parenting.
Do you have kids? Can you explain what you mean by this?
Permissive parenting that treats kids like little adults and over-emphasizes cultivation of their individual relationships and preferences does them a disservice. It’s like letting a drunk person drive a car.
Could you please share? The ones I'm finding say that parents are the strongest influence [1] [2] [3] [4].
> Permissive parenting that treats kids like little adults and over-emphasizes cultivation of their individual relationships and preferences does them a disservice.
Parenting that attempts to "carefully control" interactions until their 25th birthday seems like a disservice of equal size. I met some of these kids when I got to University. They didn't fare very well without their parents to control everything. As with most things, the answer is likely in the middle.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4826572/
[2] https://blogs.iadb.org/desarrollo-infantil/en/parental-behav...
[3] https://archive.unu.edu/unupress/unupbooks/uu13se/uu13se06.h...
[4] https://www.mckendree.edu/academics/scholars/issue17/green.h...
Do you control their interactions when they go to school? Or literally anywhere without you?
There are obviously limits to the degree to which parents can/should control their kids, but not allowing a kid to interact with strangers on the internet falls well within them. Knowing (and controlling) which of your child's peers they are communicating with is no different from keeping tabs on which home your child is visiting (and staying in touch with friends' parents wherever needed), or which of their friends they're hanging out with at the mall.
I was compelled to chime in on this thread because it resonates with me, personally. I'm an Indian raised by immigrant parents, and growing up one of the most stark observations I made was just how coddled my American friends could sometimes come across — they could more or less get whatever they wanted or do whatever they wanted. My parents established boundaries over the kinds of games I played, whom I hung out with, and the activities I partook in. Not being able to get what you want sometimes, or do what the "cool kids" are doing is just a part of growing up for lots of people. I wouldn't call it "abuse", and that kind of discipline definitely set me up for success in the real world. I continue to have a great relationship with my parents, and intend to raise my children with the same kind of discipline.
Going back a generation, my dad—who grew up in a village in Bangladesh—noted that other men in the village would notice him during his several mile long walk to school. If he did anything out of sorts word would have gotten back to his father.
(That beings said, it seems like after such a tabulation this case might be one of those that ends on the cutting floor.)
She's an adult now and sounds like is living a healthy enough life given the trauma of having unlimited money and being young.
Like what do you think teenagers do in the offline world? What were you looking at when you were 15 or 16?
Ultimately, as long as parents teach the kids to have healthy boundaries and critical thinking they'll be alright.
This teen selling her image directly to creeps strikes as borderline enablement of some mentally ill folks. Yet plenty of parents, mine included, would think nothing of having their kids model professionally.
There is great wisdom in this line. I would extend that to say that true freedom is the ability to 'do what you want, when you want.'
Money is one pillar of this. It grants you the ability to have the material resources to do what you want. But, 2 confounders get in the way. Time and physical/environmental constraints. If you are gaining money (1 pillar) by compromising the others. Your net freedom stays the same.
This includes all sort of suckers games:
* Anonymity allows you to get away with anything without anyone noticing. Your example, addresses that freedom tradeoff.
* Working long hours (in something unfulfilling) involves trading off time for money
* Back breaking involves trading health for money
A truly wealthy person is anonymous, rich and has all the time in the world, because they don't need to work to sustain their wealth.
You see a lot of channels mimicking each other and so on.
When the channel is “you” and you’re young I wonder what that means.
Approaching 1k subscribers… and they’re early middle school aged.
He asked what I thought and I talked about how I monitor the best I can any online interactions for my kids and a secret YouTube channel would be a no go for me.
He seemed conflicted on what to do, I’m still kinda horrified.
If it was about hobbies or something I might feel differently.
Our house, our rules. When they're old enough to be interacting with the internet on their own, I intend to apply the same rules - and we run a limited tech household anyway. Electronics don't go in rooms, and we've deliberately set things up so that the house computer is visible when in use, etc.
"Oh, lulz, my daughter has a YouTube channel of her being a cute enough preteen to have 1000 subscribers without me knowing about it" would be well beyond the scope of reasonable, and in addition to having supervised-only internet use for quite a long while, I would supervise the removal of the channel. That's just not acceptable, in any way.
If my kids want to publish things to the internet (and I hope they will), that's fine - it just has to go through us as parents first, at least until a regular trend of good judgement is demonstrated, and we get access to whatever is being published as well.
The piece is not a report. This is a shock / emotion piece and is part of the US behavior of sexualizing young girls. It is promoting her. You may find it reasonable that a 15 year old girl has one million followers, at least one of whom purchased pictures from her for $300. Or you may not. I'm just saying that the article is part of that system, and that putting yourself out there is going to get this kind of attention and that it demonstrably works as a means to get famous.
I think it bolsters the need for anonymity and privacy, especially online. In FL you have the sunshine act which makes doxxing particularly easy.
Better not fly.
I would say it's pretty uncommon.
If only social media hadn't enforced real name policies, it might be a little easier to stay anonymous while still being a content creator, maybe its different in other countries.
Edit: Facebook and Google+/Youtube had or have real name policies, before then it was the norm to never reveal your real identity online, I admit I am ignorant to TikTok policies, but apparently sharing your venmo address is not uncommon.
Some things are hard to learn the easy way. In any case, as I observed, the tradeoff seems worth it to the subject of the article and her family, even now they are made forcefully aware of the possible downsides. Perhaps it ultimately will not be but I personally don't feel like I'm in a position to dictate how they should balance the risks and rewards of stardom.
A man stalking and becoming obsessed with a specific woman, spending time and effort for sex and attention despite the woman clearly not being interested, is surprisingly common.
Many, many woman have real-life incidents of men literally stalking them, men repeatedly trying to get their attention / ask them out despite blatant “stop talking to me” rejection, and men getting really aggressive when they get rejected or “emasculated”. On games and social media it’s much worse, to the point where basically anyone who reveals themselves to be female gets creepy messages. You just don’t realize because relatively this stuff almost never happens to men, even attractive men.
Go on a sub like r/NiceGuys, r/TwoXChromosomes and you will see a ton of examples. But even random subs like r/AskReddit and my college’s sub have multiple stories because it’s so common. It’s actually a very serious issue in nearly every society, and this incident is an (albeit extreme) example of the persistence and aggressiveness most semi-attractive women experience.
> A man stalking and becoming obsessed with a specific woman [is common] . . .
I recognize the truth of what you're saying, but I also just want to point out that the discussion is about the former situation, not the latter one. Otherwise there wouldn't be these vague intimations that something is wrong with Tiktok in the NYTimes piece.
If your denominator is fans, yes.
If it is stars, not so much.
> You just don’t realize because relatively this stuff almost never happens to men, even attractive men.
Yes, it does, and not just conventionally attractive men. You don't realize because men have less social support for discussing it when it happens to them, and you mistake relative visibility for relative frequency.
I think this is similar to how domestic violence is cast as a women's issue, yet men are just as likely if not more so to be victims.
https://www.saveservices.org/2019/02/men-face-31-greater-ris...
Young Karens - and your parents - you should know better. Just ask Jodi Foster.