Comment by noduerme | Hacker News Reader

Comment by noduerme | Hacker News Reader

Lack of eye contact. That's what I see among both sexes under the age of 30. Almost to the level of autism. An inability to have basic conversation. And the boys are totally ineffectual and terrified of trying to kiss a girl; it's been made faux pas to show any inclination. It's hard enough as a teenager to get up the courage to kiss a girl. Imagine if you think there's a 50/50 chance she'll completely destroy your life on social media, rather than just say "no thanks".

In my mid-30s I ran through a spate of recent divorcees who all had almost exactly the same complaint. Their husband of 10 years hadn't slept with them in 5+ years, and was always in the basement playing video games or watching porn. Which he didn't want to watch with her. Two of them - totally separately - told me they would dress up in lingere and go to the basement and the husband would say he was too tired. A third said she felt "unfuckable" and started crying recounting it. (I said, oh no! You're totally fuckable! I also said, I would never play a video game rather than lay in bed with you. And it was like... holy shit) This is literally what's going on.

> Lack of eye contact. That's what I see among both sexes under the age of 30.

Not a significant thing

> An inability to have basic conversation.

Not a significant thing

> And the boys are totally ineffectual and terrified of trying to kiss a girl; it's been made faux pas to show any inclination. It's hard enough as a teenager to get up the courage to kiss a girl.

I mean you shouldn't kiss a girl without consent, but I assure you, plenty of teenagers are kissing

> Imagine if you think there's a 50/50 chance she'll completely destroy your life on social media, rather than just say "no thanks".

It's really not a thing. This one is just stupid. This time of thinking is OCD level anxiety of about unrealistic outcomes.

> In my mid-30s I ran through a spate of recent divorcees who all had almost exactly the same complaint. Their husband of 10 years hadn't slept with them in 5+ years, and was always in the basement playing video games or watching porn. Which he didn't want to watch with her. Two of them - totally separately - told me they would dress up in lingere and go to the basement and the husband would say he was too tired. A third said she felt "unfuckable" and started crying recounting it. (I said, oh no! You're totally fuckable! I also said, I would never play a video game rather than lay in bed with you. And it was like... holy shit) This is literally what's going on.

As a late 20's, moderately sexed, east coaster, the quote here is weird, dude. Both the content and the fact that it's being shared at all. People being depressed and having low sex drives and maybe just not liking their wives is bad and definitely a thing. Guys who can't comprehend not prioritizing sex as the top item at all times is also weird. I don't have interest in fucking more than maybe 3 times per week on a good week. Other than that and I would almost certainly prefer playing a game with my wife.

What's the use of just saying it's not a thing? Make a point.

I agree with OP. People around my generation (middle of the road millennial) and especially those younger have laughable basic social skills. The median 25-year-old can't talk on the phone, walk up to someone at a party and start a conversation, or act like a human being with a cashier or server. They also flake out on plans some huge percentage of the time. Drugs, porn, games, and social media are preferred to face-to-face interaction. Normal interactions, which are obviously often slightly awkward, are "cringe," and obsession with them produces a neurotic paranoia in daily interactions. And then we wonder why there's a mental health crisis, and why our communities are disintegrating, or why no one trusts society or one another.

> What's the use of just saying it's not a thing? Make a point.

The point is that social skills - properly understood - are learnable and developable skills, and adapt creatively to changes in social norms. It's not for bad reasons that "trying to kiss a girl" has become so cringe. Why are you trying to do something that intimate when you have no clue how the other person will react? It makes no sense. Work around all that crap instead, focus on being attractive on your own terms and on showing off the best side of yourself in ways that are not inherently threatening if the other person doesn't like it. Plenty of creative possibilities there. The rest will follow if you do it right. If it turns out that she expects you to take risks you're not comfortable with (which is the only reason anyone ever could have thought that the cringe thing made any sense at all), that's her loss not yours. Even then you can still be friendly, and maybe she'll change her mind after all.

>> It's not for bad reasons that "trying to kiss a girl" has become so cringe.

Oh cringe, is it? I'd say your generation cringing at the thought gets directly to the reason it has no sex.

>> Why are you trying to do something that intimate when you have no clue how the other person will react?

Possibly precisely because you don't know how they'll react. Whoa, crazy right? You might initiate something without prior consent and see what happens? Holy fuck!

You aren't trying to do anything against someone's will. You aren't going to kiss the girl unless she wants to kiss you. But when you're 15 years old and you go on a first date, you do already know you'd like to kiss that girl. And you also know she isn't going to kiss you first.

It takes risk. No you don't take that risk if you think the girl doesn't like you, but it's still scary and risky all the same if you think she does. Having no clue how she's gonna react and taking a leap -- that's what you need to do to learn, both ways, to grow up. A lot of the problem with men not respecting women is down to men not learning when they aren't invited for a kiss.

But ya can't learn until you've tried. And when you're 15, trying to kiss a girl you like is pretty much the most important thing on earth. And if you don't know that, never experienced it or don't remember it, all I can say is I feel sorry for you. If you ever go on a date and carry through for a couple hours - and you're still interested, without thinking "how should I kiss that girl"? Then you're missing one of the better parts of life.

In any case, intellectualizing it to the point of obliterating all unplanned activity in the name of policing everyone's behavior and telling them they're dirty or wrong for kissing strangers is a victorian, petit bourgeois fascist little conceit which like most of your generation's ill-formed ideas will be trodden over by your children who are gonna go hog-wild fuckin' every cock in sight in return for your closed-minded, terrified little incel ideas about life.

> What's the use of just saying it's not a thing? Make a point.

My point is that your anecdata is garbage. Older folks saying young people don't know how to communicate is a centuries old trope.

Most people can communicate just fine. Given that you are citing people flaking, one might assume that the traits you're applying to an entire generation of individuals may just be your shitty friends. Little bubbles at the top of reddit don't matter either.

Congrats on finally being old enough to start blaming the younger generations. Here's your tropey millennial participation trophy.

Many people aren't good at phone calls. You know why? Because they don't talk on the phone.

Your anecdotes don't carry any more water, and strongly expressing contempt doesn't make it more persuasive.

OP was offering a theory that more communication moving to media that transmits communication with less or no physical/verbal context might cause difficulties transitioning to intimate physical activity.

He has the stats on his side, so he is not trying to persuade us that there is a trend that requires an explanation in the first place.

I think you provided a good enough theory why it's okay that there isn't as much conventional sex happening; the next step is to see how it might not contradict his theory.

> My point is that your anecdata is garbage.

Yet another of your points that sucks, since it wasn't their "anecdata": You're replying to two different people.

> Older folks saying young people don't know how to communicate is a centuries old trope. [...] Most people can communicate just fine.

So you've missed all the myriad "I hardly ever answer when my phone rings, and never initiate any phone calls myself" comments in various threads here on HN?

> Many people aren't good at phone calls. You know why? Because they don't talk on the phone.

Yeah, exactly. Or perhaps the other way around: They don't dare talk on the phone because they know they suck at it.

So... Do you think all those "I never use my phone for actual phone calls" comments on here are made by oldsters much more than youngsters?

Phone calls are becoming an outdated form of communication.

Yes, exactly. Because the kids are too fucking snowflake to even dare talk to someone on the phone. That's my point you're proving, not yours.

Well, to clarify, they weren't playing games with their wives... and we're talking about sexless periods of time stretching for years. Thrice a week would be perfectly alright and I'm sure some of these women would have settled for once a month.

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