Hacker News Reader

Comment by ugjka | Hacker News Reader

Why do you use a mouse without a scrollwheel?

I use the acme text editor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acme_(text_editor) for work every day. It makes heavy use of mouse chords, so I need 3 real buttons on the mouse, and it's hard to find a mouse with 3 real buttons and a scrollwheel which doesn't get in the way of the buttons. I've got a Kensington Expert Mouse trackball which works pretty well, but at the end of the day an old Logitech PS/2 mouse plugged into a converter is my go-to.

On the mice I've used recently, the scroll wheel itself was clickable as a middle button. Is that not sufficient for your purposes?

Unfortunately not... after prolonged use, my middle finger gets pretty painful from the mid-clicking. It's less ergonomic than a real button.

Consider a Ploopy trackball. There are 4 easy accessible buttons on the mouse plus another under the scroll wheel, and it's fully programmable.

https://ploopy.co/classic-trackball/

May as well call it Tracky McTrackface. Looks like and awesome project but “Ploopy” is such an odd naming choice. Is it a non-English word or have special meaning in the community?

https://blog.ploopy.co/yall-need-a-new-name-48

You might like the Logitech Anywhere MX. 5 real buttons and a scroll wheel that toggles between clicky and smooth. Only downside is that it's not bluetooth, it needs a tiny USB dongle.

It has bluetooth support as well! I use the MX master but it's the same system. There's a button on the bottom to switch between up to 3 devices.

I am very interested to learn about your workflow. What language do you program in? How does acme help programming in this language? Do you have a video or a stream I could watch? I'd love to know!

I write Go code almost exclusively. I don't have a video demonstrating it, but you can read http://jfloren.net/tools.html for more information about how I use acme, and watch https://research.swtch.com/acme to see it in action.

Here's a few key points:

* Select text & middle-click it (or just select with the middle button & release) to execute a program. I just keep a file full of common commands open at all times and fire them off as needed.

* The "acmego" tool automatically formats my Go code & adds imports as needed whenever I save. The "A" tool can find the definition of any function/type/variable I'm looking at and open the source file to an appropriate line. (yes I know these things are available in other editors)

I am not sure I would want to use it but I was totally amazed watching a video. It seems supper efficient when one learns it.

I use the middle button lots and the MX master 3 has never given me issues.

Depends by what you mean by "real buttons" but my first thought was that 99% of gaming mice will have at least 3 buttons and a scrollwheel. Often it's closer to 10 buttons.

This one has 20 buttons (including 3 big ones and a scrollwheel): https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/gaming-mice/g600-mm...

I was also going to suggest this. I have used a lot mouses and this one is my go-to. It's well built and priced. It definitely has 3 "real" buttons.

> Depends by what you mean by "real buttons" but my first thought was that 99% of gaming mice will have at least 3 buttons and a scrollwheel. Often it's closer to 10 buttons.

> This one has 20 buttons (including 3 big ones and a scrollwheel): https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/gaming-mice/g600-mm... I really like this mouse https://natec-zone.com/press/euphonie I really appreciate vertical form factor. It's one the cheap side, but it's good for my hands.

> I need 3 real buttons on the mouse, and it's hard to find a mouse with 3 real buttons and a scrollwheel which doesn't get in the way of the buttons

does a gaming mouse work? I'm currently using a $10 gaming mouse that has 4 buttons and a scroll wheel. Two of them are thumb-buttons that function very well and are not in the way at all.

I also struggled to find a mouse with a decent wheel that you can click without moving it off which is handy in CAD's. Gave up in the end and switched to using thumb button for middle click. But there's an option to get one of 3DConnexion CAD Mouse's if you can swallow the price tag.

Logitech MX Master series has an amazing scroll wheel in almost any way you can think of, including being stable when clicking it.

The IBM Scrollpoints have 2-axis scroll and a real middle button.

I haven't used a mouse where you couldn't press the scroll wheel to get a midle click in a long time.

To be fair, it's usually pretty awkward and feels bad though. It is often very easy to accidentally scroll a bit on the wheel while depressing the third button.

Some of the Logitech mice (MX Anywhere 2) switch the 'clickiness' (rasterization) of the scrollwheel on and off instead of sending a button click.

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/eol/mx-anywhere-2s-mouse.910-...

I'd love to see OP's response to that. I don't think I have seen anyone using a mouse without a scroll wheel for at least a decade.

Middle mouse button + dragging works fine, faster than scrolling in some situations.

I have a be trackball and a vertical mouse. Both expensive. Both without proper scroll.

Many trackwheels on are also slow at of you want to flick many pages down.

I rely mostly in keyboard.

> Many trackwheels on are also slow at of you want to flick many pages down.

This is why the Apple Magic Mouse is so great - it's essentially a phone surface instead of physical buttons.

Genuinely curious what you do when you have to navigate a long document or page that doesn't have a clickable table of contents. If you're at the top and you need to get somewhere close to the bottom, do you just sit there and flick the scroll wheel for 5 minutes?

Just hit End?

Page down?

Alt + Scroll in my text editor

Middle Click -> Scroll on the web

Page Up/Page down everywhere else

Three different answers. How is it not obvious that this is a problem with a simple, universal solution?

Four including clicking and dragging a widget

I think you mean hovering to get the widget to appear, going to click it and having it auto-hide as your cursor is on the way, then hover again, repeat 2 more times, then finally be able to click and drag the widget.

https://xkcd.com/1172/

I know it's a joke, but I feel some people take this kind of thing seriously. Yes, improving stuff can break other stuff, but that doesn't mean we should never improve anything, it just means the devs (and PMs if applicable, probably not in the Linux world) need to have a feedback pipe coming from users to let them know what the consequences of the changes are.

Not parent, but I use a trackball. Apparently adding a plain scroll wheel onto one is rocket science or something, based on the prices.

There’s tons of trackballs with wheels. Both CST Lasertrac and Kensington Expert Mouse have them.

The Expert Mouse costs a lot, lot more than a simple trackball. And my subjective feeling is that it's actually less ergonomic than the cheaper Logitech I've got.

If you’re open to spending about the same (about $10 more), then the Logitech MX Ergo might be exactly what you’re after.

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/mx-ergo-wireles...

I cannot use that kind of trackball. It relies on actuation with my thumbs, and it hasn't worked out very well in the ones I tried. I prefer "ambidextrous" ones with the ball in the middle.

Well for the record then this is my jam and I cannot express how much I love it: https://www.rtings.com/mouse/reviews/elecom/huge-m-ht1drbk

There’s also the slightly smaller Deft Pro (https://switchandclick.com/elecom-deft-pro-review/) which I also own and use for travel — it has a superior scroll wheel and therefore may be a superior choice for you.

For me the Huge has a perfect form factor that outweighs all else.

On mac I use steermouse to map the buttons.

I promise to stop being a trackball pusher now.

That Elecom is reasonably priced. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Maybe GameBall[1]. It have 6 buttons and vertical and horizontal scroll.

[1]: https://www.gamingtrackball.com/

Maybe touch pad on a laptop?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com