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Comment by gowld | Hacker News Reader

> requires men to be in contact with one another, and to look each other in the eyes.

Why? That favors con artists over honestly nervous people.

I can only speak for myself, but it's nice to have physical contact with people. An easy way to battle the touch starvation

Why do you need physical touch from relative strangers?

When you don't want them to remain strangers.

I'm baffled at how millennia old* rituals involved with no-longer-being-strangers are lost on some commenters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Funerary_stele_of_Thrasea...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:OTArsameiaSockelIIIDexios...

Seems to me that the ubiquity of such greetings across all cultures would imply that you're the exception here, no?

A lot of cultures bow rather than shake hands.

Other cultures require you to get a lot closer than a handshake.

Strangers don't owe you that and there's still a global pandemic on.

Pay for a massage or take up ballroom dancing or something if touch matters to you.

Oh they don't owe me anything, and I didn't mean to say that they do.

However, I am free to decide who I would rather do business with/work with. And as such I am free to prefer to work with people who shake my hand.

As for the pandemic, I don't think it will remain an issue for forever. And even if it does, I don't mind carrying a bottle of hand sanitizer around.

Yes, you are free to decide with whom you choose to do business.

The pandemic has dragged on a lot longer than expected. We still don't have a clear end in sight and some people feel this is "the new normal."

I find it creepy and inappropriate that someone would feel that I need to service their touch starvation to do business with them when they can't be bothered to arrange their personal life to adequately meet that need for themselves. It smacks of something just shy of sexual favors since sex is a large part of how most people quench their need for physical touch.

It's a rather far jump to go from handshake to sexual favours in my opinion, but if you feel that way then of course you can just choose to not shake people's hands. Nobody forcing you to after all!

Nobody's forcing me but if enough people refuse to do business with me because I don't shake their hand, I -- what? -- get to choose between shaking hands and going hungry?

No pressure.

Just an FYI: I'm a woman. In my experience, a lot of men looking for excuses to touch me, such as shake my hand, are really angling to get next to me sexually.

Maybe that's not a big issue in your life. It unfortunately is in mine.

Edit: just to be crystal clear, my reason for not shaking hands is germ control, as stated elsewhere.

What I was referring to is that such a situation is highly unlikely. Even if we do not take current labour shortage and the historic lack of IT people into account I am certain that there would be more than enough employers or business partners who do not care about whether or not someone is willing to shake their hand.

But yes, in general if a society places enough value on a social norm to decide whether or not to do business with a certain person it is possible that certain people will be alienated based on their willingness to participate in such a social norm.

And, to address your edit: I am fully aware that we are currently in a pandemic and I am not saying that we should go around and start getting overly close to one another for no reason.

As the original content all the way up this chain I was mostly referring to a time post COVID, assuming that such an outset is realistic. If not then hand shaking will be the least pressing problem regardless.

I am medically handicapped. My desire to not shake hands is not specific to the pandemic.

I don't really think the pandemic will end without social norms changing. Handshakes are a social norm that spreads germs. I think we would do well to move to something else. In many cultures they bow.

So my belief is that we only get to post pandemic by doing away with things like handshakes. That's my opinion and I can't back it up with studies or anything, but your mental models and mine just don't mesh well in that regard.

You have a good day. I think you and I are likely speaking somewhat past each other and I'm not interested in engaging further in what is likely pointless miscommunication.

Your extreme minority disabilities seem like a pretty poor excuse to attack everyone else you are interacting with to the extreme degree you are doing.

Yes, sure, people should make reasonable accommodations to help deal with your extreme minority situation.

But it is a sure for you to demand that everyone else change their entire lives, and perfectly reasonable preferences, to satisfy only you.

It's impossible to win, if you don't shake a women's hands you are treating them in the old fashioned, less progressive way, if you do, you are looking for excuses to touch them. Interacting with others in any context requires some sacrifices and compromises, it is impossible for the other party to know what is appropriate unless you tell them as shown in my first sentence, and most times it is best not to cause animosity and just go with it. Men do this social adaption too btw.

There used to be a social convention for men not to shake women's hands, still observed in some contexts. However, Covid aside, in most modern business context refusing to shake a woman's hand would look horribly sexist to most bystanders.

I would strongly disagree that sex is how most people quench their need for physical touch.

Not being able to hug my grandparents during the pandemic took a big emotional toll on me.

I pet my dog, hug my kids and shake hands with my friends. These are all examples of how I use touch to show affection in my life.

However, I strongly agree that your preferences should be completely respected especially in a business setting.

You forgot it's not just a handshake. It's often a shoulder touch or a tug or a really hard hand squeeze to assert dominance or whatever other nonsense they read in their book on how to be a creepy con artist.

I decide to not do business with people who expect a handshake. If they reach out I'm already game over. If they bring up sports.. oh hell yea I'm gonna stand up and walk right out. We have nothing more to discuss.

Well then problem solved, and both of you don't have to interact with each other?

I am not sure why someone else's preferences would offend you so much.

Sometimes, different people just have different ways of interacting with each other, and that is totally fine, and you don't have to be friends.

There is no need to be upset at them.

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