>Set up the 1Password 8 desktop app
That will be the Electron version. No thanks.
That will be the Electron version. No thanks.
Also, they have a nice CLI. I'm sure getting some of these features there is only a matter of time.
If the answer is "nothing," then really the argument is purely about aesthetics.
I didn't even know it was an Electron app until months after I had installed it.
How much memory is yours consuming (assuming you're using 8)?
I believe the UX performance in 1Password 8 is better than any other app we built in the past: https://twitter.com/mitchchn/status/1491253916004147203?s=20
Would love to learn more about the standard shortcuts that are missing — good keyboard shortcuts is a huge priority to us!
-- Roustem 1Password Founder
There are many reasons for not specifying what framework an app is built in, the most obvious of which is that the general public both has no clue what Electron is nor a desire to find out.
Just because something isn't listed doesn't mean it's "buried". Like the other commenter said, you don't routinely see users of other frameworks and languages put it front and center, why should that expectation change with Electron?
Will you add support for increased contrast again? (it was removed in v8, and was one of the many regressions that made me effectively give up on 1Password)
1. I despise the binding of ⌘- and ⌘+ to zoom, and even more ⌘0 to zoom reset. I know that those are standard Electron things, but there’s absolutely no reason to make them priority bindings for 1Password.
Beyond the zoom binding, I find the default size too big, so I am running at two zooms down by default. Every time I go for the ⌘0 (all "displayed vaults" in 1Password 7), my zoom resets because of this nonsense. What would make more sense is to: (a) remove those bindings; (b) let one of the collections or accounts be marked as a _default_ collection or vault and bind the display of the default to ⌘0; (c) offer zoom sizes either in the view menu or preferences; and maybe (d) offer the zoom-in zoom-out functionality only in the menu.
2. I absolutely cannot deal with the fact that preferences, collection editing, and a few other things are pseudo-modals that block the use of every other part of the 1Password 8 UI. It’s the #1 thing that calls 1Password 8 out as an Electron app, and it makes me so not ever want to touch these things, which makes them far less useful on a day-to-day basis. If you are unwilling to fix the fact that these things are garbage, at least enable multi-tab capabilities (I would love to see a tabbed 1Password interface). That allows VS Code to be less immediately annoying.
These are in order of annoyance, not priority. I consider the pseudo-modal issue to be more important because it makes the new features that you and Dave speak of unpleasant to configure. Fix these, and I’m back to recommending 1Password 8 wholeheartedly. I’m even missing 1Password mini less and appreciating the replacement a bit more (it’s still not _quite_ as good, IMO, but it’s getting there).
2. It might look silly but we actually had an internal debate about making the preference for floating preference window. I personally do not mind the single window approach because it makes things easier for the non-experienced users. I watched my mother-in-law losing the preferences window when she tried to configure 1Password 7. I know there are certain articles claiming that all Mac apps must have a floating Preferences window but there are quite a few counter-examples as well. Anyway, that preference might still happen.
1. I certainly relate to the pain about muscle memory when it comes to the keyboard shortcuts. At the same time, having an option to easily adjust the zoom settings for an app is such a great feature. I used 1Password on a 13" laptop and on Pro Display HDR and I love the ability to change the zoom factor. I now wish I could do this in every app. Perhaps a solution could be to make all keyboard shortcuts customizable?
The preferences is small enough that I don’t care about that as much. It’s symptom as much as anything else.
The pseudo-modal for collection management is painful.
I never want to open that pseudo-modal _again_ because it’s so awful. It’s narrow, it doesn’t let me look at the vaults while I’m working through what should be in a collection, etc.
This is a problem because it’s a major feature and someone who has used 1Password from the days when it was 1Passwd and you ran the Switcher’s blog…that’s bad news for the success of the feature. Never mind that this is the only way to get to the previous behaviour of "all vaults" meaning "all vaults that have been selected to show in all vaults" and that so that you’re not constantly getting shown things that you don’t want to see by default because the collection you have the old "all useful vaults" is on ⌘5 instead of ⌘1 or (better yet ⌘0).
On the zoom:
Keep the zoom, if you must. But for the love of Jobs, don’t bind it to ⌘-, ⌘0, and ⌘=. ⌘0 should be _either_ "show preferred collection or account" or "show main window" (leaving ⌘1 for "show preferred collection or account"). Seriously, that binding is the absolute #1 thing that I hate about the Slack app, and there are _legions_ of things to hate about that. Leave the zoom options in the View menu, because your mother-in-law, if she wants to zoom in isn’t going to remember ⌘= to zoom in. She’ll look in the menus.
1Password 8 is _much_ better than it was when I started using it in July. But these two things actively make me _angry_ about using it because: (1) the pseudo-modal, especially for collection management, makes me not want to use something that looks much better than previous mechanisms, and (2) the zoom gets in the way. I’m using 1Password on a single monitor (14" MBP, previously 13" MBP) and I want to set my zoom _once_ and never think about it again, especially if I hit ⌘0 (thinking "show main window" or "show preferred collection or account") but it resets my zoom. Having the zoom bound is a papercut that happens to me multiple times a week because it makes no sense in anything except a web browser.
EDIT: I just tried the latest beta, and I'm happy to say that scrolling the list is now much faster! On the other hand, the blurry fonts, the lack of overscroll, the non-native dropdown menus, the inability to view your vault with the Preferences window open, and the lag when resizing the window are all still there. This does not fill me with hope that the final released version is going to be any better.
* Search is just plain broken. This was the number one reason i scrapped it. * Managing multiple vaults (i have over a dozen) is unusable. * The UI is terrible, it takes way more space to show less information than 7. * The browser integration (FF) seemed to work poorly.
Basically, once 1Password stops supporting 7, they will have lost me and anyone I can influence as a customer.
FWIW, my main gripe is having to unlock each vault separately, as opposed to a single unlock as used to be the case on Mac / iPhone.
Electron makes integration harder.
Regardless, even if the backend were pure Obj-C, the point is still that now you have a UI stack and a backend stack, instead of a single desktop-native stack, and you have to manage their communications. But I guess the money they save by not managing desktop-specific codebases eventually adds up...
All this fearmongering made me properly look at and note the memory usage of the native windows app and then the electron app after I upgraded. The new app uses a whopping 50MB more when the desktop app is open and uses 10MB less when it's not
People keep ranting and raving about this with no context and zero research. I'm sick of this especially on HN
An old grandma is looking for a little city car to take her to the neighborhood store. Solution: Use an Airbus A380. The fact that the engineers have made the plane weigh only 50 times as much as the city car is great, but it doesn't really change the fact that it's a crazy approach.
This isn't the 90s, we live in the future.
I use 5-7 Electron apps on a daily basis and not even once have I had anything resembling memory issues. Nothing gets slow, nothing becomes unusable.
Memory most definitely is a previous resource.
If you round, approximately zero users of Electron apps know how to do what you’re talking about, and yet they continue to successfully use Electron apps across a variety of platforms.
The fact that you have to finely manage your system’s memory is a you thing, not an Electron thing. The two are entirely orthogonal.
Memory is not a precious resource, no matter how much you want to live in a world where your obsessive compulsion to manage it is reasonable.
I only care about managing my memory because the consequences of running out of free memory are severe. Linux as shipped by mainstream distros is quite happy to start filling swap (with attendant kswapd CPU usage) when there's multiple gigabytes of pointless inode/dentry cache to evict.
Both of these are problems that simply don't exist on Windows and MacOS. Windows because it doesn't pretend half of my system RAM is useful cache, MacOS because it does compression out of the box and doesn't appear to be so aggressive.
Linux is not good for desktop environments for exactly the reasons you outline here (and many more). It’s not Electron’s fault you’ve used the wrong tool for your desktop OS.
And you're using the words "wasted" wrong, assuming you're referring to the memory footprint of Electron. Electron uses memory to solve a compatibility problem, that's not wasted at all.
Pretty much every file I use daily is always in my disk cache, but they won't all fit there if I run a bunch of electron apps.
Besides, with SSDs and NVMe your experience loading data from disk is plenty fast. Again, this is the future; I/O isn’t the bottleneck it once was.
My view is backed up by the fact that people do exactly this, with great success. The complaint about memory is not reflective of the typical user experience.
If you're actually curious, you can figure it out for yourself.
Nobody is disputing Moore's Law (and this is the first time you've brought it up!). The dispute is around whether people still experience slowdowns and other bad experiences as a result of excessive memory consumption relative to resources, despite Moore's Law. I and several other people have told you right here that they have, and you refuse to acknowledge our collective experience largely because you personally haven't shared this experience.
My ego isn't bruised. But I and others reasonably expect significantly more than a "drive-by" non-substantive negation of a claim that comes directly from personal and professional experience (i.e., gaslighting) -- especially on Hacker News, where the audience is supposed to be largely composed of mathematicians, scientists, and others who possess better-than-average ability to think deeply, logically, and in a nuanced fashion.
Also, that link you provided seriously undercuts your own argument, you do realize that right? It very clearly shows how over 90%+ of computers have 4 GB or more of memory installed, which is plenty to run multiple Electron apps.
I just can't see how this is that controversial a claim.
What's controversial (because it's false) is the claim that, "Memory is a precious resource." That is not a true statement.
Additionally, your own citation shows that at this moment in time a vanishingly small number of computers have an amount of memory that would result in any kind of performance degradation due to the use of one or a few Electron apps.
Therefore, Moore's Law applies, and we can safely say that resources which double every two years are not scarce.
Your continued insistence on a false fact will continue to be "controversial".
It doubled, people bought new laptops, and reaped those benefits by running multiple Electron apps seamlessly on those new laptops.
So it remains a false statement to say, "Memory is a precious resource."
You have to thrash a full drive QUITE hard to cause any significant wear, all modern drives take care of themselves and the filesystems report which blocks are unused to let the SSD take care of itself.
Surely it's a concern in a server environment and some other "spacebar heating" workflow but in reality it doesn't happen.
Has it allowed simple XSS vulnerabilities to turn into full blown RCEs? Absolutely.
> This resultant application is hosted within Electron to ensure we have the exact same platform as our users.
https://www.reddit.com/r/1Password/comments/o0f9cl/were_the_...
So this certainly seems quite a bit different from plain electron apps.