GiveSendGo Has Been Hacked
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I can't believe the number of people celebrating this, its absolutely crazy to me. So many people liberally throwing around the word "nazi" and calling this an insurrection, just completely boggles the mind. Regardless of whether you agree about what the people are asking for, it seems grossly disingenuous to misrepresent what's going on like that. I'm starting to see who the bad guys really are here..
Not only do you have AWS, App Store bans, email provider bans (mail chimp banned babylonbee for a while although claimed it was algorithmic), you also have to contend with building a product that is going to be attacked by hackers the second you are moderately successful.
The only fair player I can see in this is cloudflare, at least they have some sort of principle of being an infrastructure provider and not siding with a certain political side.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/17/cloudflare-ceo-calls-for-a...
I also think it’s interesting how prince basically said - this is the ceo making a personal decision in the shower. That honesty was good, and at least it showed that prince was torn about it and admitted this is very hard and he will try and be an infrastructure provider in the future.
This is much better than the coordinated attack of a faceless bureaucracy of tech companies like with Parler
Make it fair free market to play. No more discrimination on anything. Only court orders to take down stuff.
Why do you believe that it should be made impractical for sites like HN to exist?
I guess everybody needs to learn to be okay with spam too?
What's the big win here? You can already run your own censorship-free sites without forcing your shit down everybody elses throats. Turns out, most people don't want that.
Some censorship is good, some censorship isn't.
There you go. Everything they don’t like is a Nazi and yet they are behaving like them and banning, breaching other people’s websites and anything that runs and crawls to this. It’s quite predictable, repetitive and boring to the point that the word has lost its meaning.
If GoFundMe was hacked, they would say that ‘it is a threat to our democracy’. I and many others would not like that to happen and hacking any service they don’t like is quite what an extremist would do. You can tell whoever did it, is not on anyone’s side here.
They can do it to anyone, even to companies like GoDaddy [0], which I’m sure when they got breached there were celebrations that the hackers really got the bad guys and everyone was happy with the whole situation. /s
Pat King is on record saying there is a plot to depopulate white people because they have the "strongest bloodline".
https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1159997274900041729
Folks can be pedantic about him not being an actual Nazi, what without the snazzy uniform and all, but he is a white supremacist.
Not everybody throwing money at this campaign will be of the same mentality, but enough of them will be to warrant further investigation, and while that investigation should be more formal than this hacktivism, I shed zero tears at the thought of every dollar stripped from whatever goal this white supremacist has in mind.
Does it boggle your mind that many people who support BLM and believe that black lives matter aren't literal communists like that movement's leaders? People can support the general goals of a protest without being fully on board with the entire agenda of everyone involved.
https://news.yahoo.com/california-doj-targets-leaderless-blm...
Pretty sure it would be unfair to dismiss the entire movement over the obvious massive corruption of its leaders.
My comment was not meant to be pedantic, I don't think its ridiculous to use the term Nazi to refer to someone that espouses ideas like that guy. I think its a misrepresentation to classify this entire thing and all the people donating to it as Nazis. Maybe there is some overlap in the types of people who would donate to something like this, but there are also a ton of completely valid other reasons to support these people or take an interest in their cause and dismissing all of them as Nazis is just wrong in my opinion.
Pat King had 50,000 followers on social media and helped organize this convoy. Surely some of these thousands of followers agreed with his message, and surely many of those showed up, along with other white nationalist sympathizers.
I agree that most people are ignorant this aspect of the convoy, and most people on the ground would not agree with his racist views, but I want to highlight that the number of white supremacists showing up to a convoy organized by a white supremacist would not be a trivial number.
> No guns, no fires, no looting, no deaths
It has been fairly peaceful in terms of physical harm, but there has been one fire set in a residential building with fireworks, and the arsonists taped the front doors shut. There have been a few assault arrests as well. While I'm not sure anyone has been arrested for gun charges, I'd be willing to be money on long haul truckers keeping firearms nearby.
Hopefully things stay peaceful during the looming counter-protests.
> Yet they are being demonized as if they are literally attempting to overthrow the government.
The organizer of the original GoFundMe that got cancelled, Tamara Lich, was one of the original members of the Maverick party. This party is a proponent of breaking off western Canada into its own nation. Organizing a blockade at Canada's capitol while collecting millions of dollars lays good groundwork for future separatist plans.
This has bloodied the waters, and on a lighter note, the "Queen of Canada" has shown up to reaffirm that Justin's government isn't legitimate.
https://twitter.com/CarymaRules/status/1489326612139151369
While there's no way this person is going to actually overthrow the government, she kind of wants to, and so do the dozens of fringe supporters you hear cheering her on during her speech.
So I guess in summary while it isn't a Nazi rally, there be nazis, and while they aren't literally attempting to overthrow the government, there be overthrowers.
Obviously his own morality and ethics play into it, but the crux of the matter is that we understand why people have beliefs like this, and how to resolve the problem. See the efforts of Daryl Davis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis
Daryl realized that most members of the KKK are down on their luck people who've been abused by the system for most of their lives. These people tend to look for scapegoats that they can rally their anger against. They have legitimate grievances that they channel into illegitimate beliefs, because of various failures of reasoning. These are not highly educated and powerful people with agendas.
The same kind of issues can be attributed to most anyone in a chronically bad situation.
It's about as much of a "gotcha" as attacking incels for being inept, frustrated, and lonely. Well, yeah.
That's why many people "overlook" things like this. Not because they agree with the sentiments that people like Pat King express, but because they understand three things:
1) The convoy protest isn't about Pat King's racist paranoia. It happens to be about a real problem that disenfranchises people. If anything, that could help people like Pat let go of their racist beliefs by realizing it's not just them with the problems.
2) Pat King is in no position to manifest his paranoid beliefs.
3) As condescending as it may be, poor and disenfranchised people tend to have problematic beliefs and behaviors; that doesn't mean they should be exiled. Otherwise, we'd wrongfully criminalize the homeless, drug addicted, and the mentally ill - which we often do, actually.
So, painting the convoy movement as fundamentally racist because you found out that there are vulnerable people involved is disingenuous and does nothing to solve the real issues that caused it. We all know what the goal of the convoy is: to drop the covid mandates.
That said, the convoy does lose it's legitimacy by not addressing the problem of people like Pat King, even as a propaganda smear. What I've just said is probably the gist of what they're thinking about it, but they haven't articulated this in public. However, I've heard them arguing about this on their Zello channel and from what I've heard they want to remove Pat King and are strongly against any racist sentiments.
I’ll take a pass on the political stuff, but this is similar to what Michael Moore was saying prior to the 2016 elections in the US. Paraphrasing, he said we were about to see how many upset, middle aged, white people feel like they’ve been disenfranchised because a lot of them would vote for Trump with the sentiment that if no one is trying to fix the system for them they figure it might as well be broken for everyone.
That was the first time I realized Trump might get elected. I understand the sentiment, but breaking the system completely will just make things worse for those people. Wealthy people can capitalize on instability. Poor people can’t.
There are many reasonable people involved in this, and those are the people we should be focusing on. Seriously, unless you want more Trumpism then the valid issues need to be addressed.
The efficacy of his approach is worth investigating beyond the just-so descriptives used in your comment and the wikipedia article. Many of the people he claims to have converted are still avowed racists and klansmen.
> Many of the people he claims to have converted are still avowed racists and klansmen.
Where in the article did you get that? I'm sure some have "relapsed" for one reason or another, but that's not what was said here.
Also, what are you expecting exactly? 100% efficacy where they all turn into boy scouts? Have you ever worked with the homeless, or any kind of damaged people, gangs, etc. before? The "just-so" candour I use in this is because it's a well known and practiced approach in urban outreach programs that actually works to help people.
He's aiding and abetting the neo-Nazi movement by working to get many of them to doubt their negative beliefs - and putting in a good word for a couple of them in court?
This is golden bullshit, let's see the stats!
you say "let's see the stats"-- I agree, I'd like to see them. I'm skeptical. The stories in the article I linked (that racists he "converted" are actually using him as a shield while laughing at him in private) directly contradict your point. Maybe those stories are wrong. I'm open minded to that. But you and the wikipedia article you linked certainly haven't convinced me. When I say his story as told by you is "just-so", what I mean is that it's reductive, incurious, inch-deep.
"Candour" is an odd way to describe stenographical repetition of the same blurbs he uses to get booked as a paid speaker.
There's a real telling moment where he takes the time to straighten a klansman's white hood. People who are reading this comment are probably wondering if I'm joking right now. I encourage you to look into it
It's crime in the name of politics. Note how most of the 'leaks' (hacks) on their main page are against a specific perceived political leaning [1]. This will not just affect the freedom convoy, but also the company, the other campaigns they host there, the livelihoods and safety of those who donated to the freedom convoy, and countless other casualties. Having a board of advisors that they selected, but do not have to listen to, does not mean they are acting ethically [2].
> I can't believe the number of people celebrating this, its absolutely crazy to me.
CNN analyst Juliette Kayyem [3] tweeted [4]:
"The convoy protest, applauded by right wing media as a "freedom protest," is an economic and security issue now. The Ambassador Bridge link constitutes 28% of annual trade movement between US and Canada. Slash the tires, empty gas tanks, arrest the drivers, and move the trucks"
The irony is, these people who are celebrating the hacks that target working class truckers, will also be the most affected in their isolated concrete fortresses, if they were to lose their jobs. The food won't deliver itself to the city. They clearly preferred the truckers when they were seen but not heard.
> So many people liberally throwing around the word "nazi" and calling this an insurrection, just completely boggles the mind.
Hopefully more people question "official media authorities", the framing bias on this story has simply been insane. The past 2/3 years has been a large social experiment in media-based manipulation. Name a single government that has not exerted pressure to affect the publication of materials related to COVID.
[1] https://ddosecrets.com/wiki/Distributed_Denial_of_Secrets
[2] https://ddosecrets.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliette_Kayyem
[4] https://twitter.com/juliettekayyem/status/149175716730890240...
There's been non-stop noise at all hours. Residents downtown who've faced constant harassment. Attempts made by the occupiers to lock residents in. Businesses forced to shut. Roadways and highways blocked for days. They're terrorizing the residents of downtown. And in the face of all of this, the police have essentially surrendered.
They're calling for Trudeau to be overthrown and arrested. They're not only occupying the center of the capital, they spent 6 days blocking the most important economic transport line in Canada. They've blockaded border points in the West too. Closing some essential crossings. If this was a poor, developing nation, you'd be labeling this as an insurrection. And you'd be correct.
And about the nazi thing, yeah, that's probably an accurate label. Many of the leadership are white supremacists. The connections to far right groups are clear. Hell, there's many of these idiots carrying Confederate flags in Canada of all places. If you're proudly waving the Confederate flag in 2022 in a place that's far far from the South, I think it's pretty clear what you support.
And on top of all that, there's clear evidence much of this was engineered by people in the United States. From the near constant Trump flags flown in the occupation, to the trail of money, to the organizational efforts spearheaded by Americans. Not to mention the organization done in FB groups led by hacked accounts.* There was some serious effort put into this. The fundraising hack will give a little sunlight into those efforts. Not enough sunlight, but it's a start.
Seriously, start reading about what the people of Ottawa have endured for the past 3 weeks. You apparently have no knowledge of this. Get back to me and tell me "who the bad guys really are here."
* - And do look into the weirdness of the FB organizing. Some Canadian journalists have dug into it. They wondered why the more popular Canadian trucker FB groups had a woman from Missouri as the only admin. And then they discovered the woman from Missouri hasn't been in control of her account for several months now.
https://www.grid.news/story/misinformation/2022/02/08/the-ha...
I don't think I'd support doxxing every construction worker and ruining their future lives, and it wasn't even a political protest.
If we start villifying protests, democracy is finished, and we are back into the feudal days. Which seems to be the trend these days anyway, so perhaps it's all moot.
I also assume that the funding site is required to turn over this data to CSIS anyways, unless they actively ensure that only Canadians are being permitted to donate. Otherwise they risk being treated as an enemy of the Canadian state for ‘clandestine’ foreign interference in Canada’s interests, as keeping that list secret from CSIS while accepting foreign (non-Canadian) donations would exempt them from the political protest protections in the CSIS act, and expose themselves to risk of extradition to Canada.
e.g. would Americans donating to Amnesty International in Canada be considered an act of political interference? Seems like a stretch. People donate to charities of their choosing globally all the time, in fact, quite often to NGOs/charities that disagee with their local governments on quite a few things.
What is the CSIS act, and it's "political protest protections"? Seems really weird, you'd expect the fundamental right to protest in a democracy would be constitutionally enshrined, rather than "protected" under some law. This right is presumed, and the constitution simply recognizes its existence, but maybe in monarchies this is different, and rights are bestowed on the subjects by the monarch?
It seems to me, that if you need a law to "protect" the right to protest, you might be living in a country that isn't quite a democracy.
Canada is no exception, encoding its protections of that intersection into the CSIS act. If you’d like to learn more about CSIS, these links are a good first step towards understanding how Canada’s laws govern foreign interference and how and when they protect domestic rights:
https://www.canada.ca/en/security-intelligence-service/corpo...
As for the company, it’s obvious they’re going to draw a ton of attention by using a controversial political event as a marketing tool. If they can’t even bother to secure their S3 buckets (unrelated to this) before ruffling a bunch of feathers, why should we feel bad for them? It’s not some innocent site that got hacked and had their business ruined. They’re trying to claim they’re a neutral platform, but there’s no such thing in politics. They’re taking a calculated risk by trying to benefit from the controversy and they got burned. Tough luck IMO.
The only true political neutrality if you’re running a platform is a total ban on everything political.
The integration of Mobilecoin with Signal is a good example. The wallets are pseudonymous, the chain has privacy built in, and it uses Signal's existing end-to-end privacy to arrange for coordinating payments between parties, such that the service has no idea what anyone's balances are or who is paying whom. You can't stop payments to anyone on the system without stopping the whole system.
Regardless of how you feel about Signal, or Mobilecoin, or Signal's integration with Mobilecoin: this is a demo of the fact that end-user-accessible private payments is technically possible. It's only a matter of time now until that future is evenly distributed to everyone who wants to use it.
You can, of course, think that Signal should be banned from the App Store. Perhaps it will be over this. People needing that functionality will switch to or augment with a platform that allows sideloading of apps. You can, of course, think that use of such completely unstoppable payment infrastructure should be prohibited as it eliminates existing government/legal control over who can pay whom and why. They could outlaw such payments, just as they successfully outlawed cocaine and speeding, but that doesn't stop them.
Fact is, though, it is now technically possible, and the only effective counters are aggressive censorship of apps that implement it (which is in short order any e2e encrypted messenger), or general internet censorship that blocks certain protocols like these sorts of p2p payment systems.
It's only a matter of time before these aren't going to be easily shutdown centralized websites.
What does the world look like, then? Is that okay? Is that terribly bad? What are the potential upsides? What are the failure modes?
Such script-kiddie behaviour should be reported to the authorities and they will trace the attacks back to them. They always do.
The core group of organizers have clearly stated that their goal is to overthrow the Canadian government: https://web.archive.org/web/20220201001209/https://canada-un...
The RCMP busted a heavily armed (for Canadian standards) cell of far-right extremists at the Coutts border blockade: https://twitter.com/antihateca/status/1493408315455549441?s=...
It is suspected that the Ottawa occupation sites also harbor similar elements.
"Canadian truckers" have been taken for a ride, it's been quite clear after the first week that truckers have very little to do with this beyond being a cover story. Canadian Trucking Association has publicly disavowed this, 90% of our truckers are vaccinated and at work.
To be clear, there were no rights being infringed by the various health measures. There were privileges being denied, most definitely. Some people confuse the two. Of course now the situation has evolved past that, but this has been an extremely volatile three weeks and Canadian democracy is at stake here.
But after the last 5 years and the blatant lying by the media, the close relationship between the FBI/CIA and members of Congress and Dick Cheney getting an award from the Democrats makes me think you’re probably not too far off the mark.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Indian_farme...