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Comment by sumosudo | Hacker News Reader

Remove the offending substance and see how long or to what extent you would go to get it back.

With alcohol, its not so much about the urge to drink when you stop, but how bad your withdrawal symptoms are.

I pretty much gave up in my mid thirties when I stopped for two weeks to deal with some life admin and found myself in withdrawal.

I've had a few spells off the wagon since, but now realise something is properly broken in me. Even small amounts of alcohol trigger hideous hangovers and anxiety. The only counter is to drink again.

Careful with the booze, kids. The danger is real.

100%. Hangxiety is the worst. I’m 27 and quit last August. I feel so much better for it. Binge drinking culture can really damage you!

Had a night out with friends recently after a year off. Didn't start to feel right until 4 days later. Not. Worth. It.

Were you drinking all day every day? I have a glass or two of bourbon most nights and can do a week break with no sign of withdrawal. Alcohol is definitely very addictive, but you do have to go pretty hard to get withdrawals.

Every hannover hangover is withdrawal, there's just a scale of severity.

I was drinking daily. Two to three on a quiet day, regularly scaling up to the point its it's difficult to count. I wasn't he heaviest drinker I knew.

No, a hangover is not a withdrawal. You have your facts wrong.

It's interesting to try it this way. Did it in the past with alcohol because I was curious how long it take to eliminate the urge (regardless of strength) to drink. Got through two months without any drinks and I'm not sure that the urge ever really went away. But I got used to tamping it down.

I really can’t relate… I drink but I never feel the “urge” to drink… I can simply stop and alcohol doesn’t even cross my mind for weeks.

That’s good! That is how a healthy relationship with alcohol should be.

That's interesting. I've suspected it was two things:

1. Some chemical addiction - hard to understand but may contribute to the "urge"

2. Some component of taste - in other words, I like the taste of bourbon. I don't really care to be drunk but it obviously happens sometimes. But the goal is not to be drunk but instead to enjoy the taste of bourbon. I'm sure that desire manifests itself chemically in the body as well. Yet, I think of them as different pathways to the outcome.

So day to day, what I feel like I'm fighting is the desire to taste something I really enjoy, rather than the desire to be drunk, if that distinction makes sense.

I do understand the need to taste something you really enjoy… but that is what every meal is for (I always try to eat nice things… eating should be a happy moment!)

Exactly the same. I can take alcohol or leave it.

With no social pressure, on my own I very seldom buy alcohol or keep it around. I don't think about it. I don't want for it, on occasion I'll have a few drinks and once in a great while a few too many drinks but it's not something I really care about one way or the other.

I've seen many people not like this. Alcohol is a central part of their life even if they aren't "drunks".

I think it must be a biological/chemical?

It took me almost 2 years to fully give up sodas and sugary drinks. I grew up on it. I learned a lot about my willpower.

I wish you’d use that same strength to cut your addiction to micro transactions in video games …

;)

Club soda got me off them (this is before fizzy water became a trendy drink). Turns out my craving was mostly for the carbonation bite, not the sugar.

Seltzer water didn't work. The missing minerals make it taste super weird to my palate. Had to be club soda (or sparkling mineral water, but that was too expensive for me to have often at the time).

There are important caveats: sudden withdrawal from alcohol (high doses, long-term use), benzodiazepines (benzos), and methadone can cause death [0].

[0] https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/all-about-addiction/...

This isn't a good test because addiction is a dynamic situation. One can not simply remove the offending substance from their life for X days and confirm they are not addicted.

Persistent and compulsive is key to understanding how it works.

the fortitude saving throw T-break is a good idea, once in a while.

One of the most common addictions now is cellphone addiction. But especially since the pandemic it's hard to do anything without a cell phone. You need your QR codes everywhere for testing or showing you're tested, show your vaccinations, check in to restaurants, etc.

> You need your QR codes everywhere for testing or showing you're tested, show your vaccinations

You can do all of that without a phone.

You are right. Print the qr and put in your wallet like any elderly person I know does.

Not here. It is technically possible to use a printed version, but they're not actually accepted anywhere. No phone means no access.

Odd. Is it because the people who do the access control (think that they) have to follow strict procedures, or why isn't a printout accepted?

There's a lot of fraud with the printed/pdf variants, so they are not accepted anymore. How an app prevents such things, I have no idea.

Fortunately have never had to show a test or a vaccine pass on a phone. Boy am I glad I’ve been living in England these last few years if that’s becoming normalised!

Except the tests you have to scan a QR to register, get the result by email etc.

Sure it's "possible" but then you have to take a photo of all QRs of all the test centers you might want to use, register for those at home, go there, go home to print the email. Rinse and repeat every day.

So you could do that and waste 3h a day doing it, or you carry a phone.

The registration in restaurants a lot of restaurants don't accept paper registration anymore either.

Mercifully, shoes do not require identification before you go on a walk sans phone.

Somewhere in Silicon Valley, I have no doubt that the first "smart shoes" are under development.

Shoes that link to fitness trackers already exist. A quick Google reveals shoes with integrated bluetooth speakers, and shoes for the blind (not sure what those do, but I gather it does involve electronics).

I think "cellphone addiction" isn't really a thing, the phone is just a means to an end. It's going to be what's happening on the phone, be it games or social media.

I have a horrible case of internet addiction and have for decades but one thing I never really got sucked into was phones.

My phone lays untouched 99% of the day and even when I'm out I simply use it for maps and phone calls and messaging (infrequent, hate text messaging).

I think it's the form factor with no keyboard and a tiny screen? Just not enjoyable for some reason for which I'm actually very thankful.

Internet browsing on the phone is also less of a pleasant experience, versus with a desktop web browser.

Reddit for mobile is deliberately designed to make you use the app that I wish not to use (you often can't expand threads without moving to the app); YouTube ad blocking is much clunkier, versus seamless on a desktop browser; and it's more difficult to navigate (e.g. there are more taps to use the "find in page" function, versus Ctrl/Cmd+F on desktop).

It also helps that I've deliberately made the apps on the phone less engaging to use (I've avoided TikTok, and configured remaining social media apps like Instagram to avoid subscribing to content that is too interesting or designed to capture attention, so there is far less of a pull to use them).

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