Tesla recalls 26,681 U.S. vehicles over windshield defrosting software | Hacker News Reader

Tesla recalls 26,681 U.S. vehicles over windshield defrosting software

reuters.com

Tangential, I am on a cross country trip with FSD 10.8.1 which has been recalled. Yesterday the entire visual interface and sound interface froze on me while stopped at a light while driving, somehow got into R-everse and I almost backed into a car behind me when the light changed. A soft restart fixed it, and I have cabin video of the entire incident. Anyone know how to signal boost this without being overly annoying? My software is two full versions behind and won’t update yet. Super unsafe, not that updating will guarantee to make it safer. Seemed like a memory leak or something to me, as the car computer got slower and slower over a couple of hours.

Whole thing is on twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1291302858 around 6h:20m

Contact the tesla beta team.

Do they have an email address or another direct line of communication?

Email fsdbeta at tesla dot com

@6:21:21

It looks like right before that happened, you pushed up on a stick to the right of the steering wheel. Did that put it in reverse? Anyone with a tesla comment?

I don't have a Tesla, but hey this is the Internet, looks like pushing it up does put it in reverse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHC8TfXtHlg

Heh, but with all the UI frozen (even the blinker noise died) I guess he couldn't tell that he put the car in reverse.

Yes but the display freezing and then him putting it in reverse isn't what he described happening.

There's a big difference, and it's obvious from watching the video once which one happened, even to someone who didn't know how to put a Tesla in reverse (me).

When someone says something incorrect, I always wonder if it's accidental or intentional. This kind of misrepresentation seems intentional, making me question the source's future credibility.

I hate Teslas, their complexity is a design flaw. Can't believe I'm defending them.

To defend OP, he probably doesn't even remember putting the car into reverse, and probably hasn't reviewed the video. Yeah it's a weak defense, and I agree with you, if he's making big claims he should've reviewed things more carefully.

OTOH, I wonder if "The car must indicate to the driver visually/audibly that it's been put in reverse." is a clause in a law somewhere...

That I can get behind. These things are dangerous and don't belong on our roads.

Most manual transmissions don't give you any indication whether you're in reverse or the gear next door until you start moving.

The position of the gear selector is an indicator.

It can be in some cars, but with sporty 6-speeds in particular it can be very difficult to tell if you're in reverse or 1st just by looking because the shift gates are so narrow. My VW is even worse, because you get it into reverse by pushing the shift knob down and then basically shifting into 1st.

Of course not knowing which gear you're in when you start the car is less a problem with a manual - interacting with the gear lever is a much more normal and automatic (irony) part of the driving experience so if you start rolling the wrong way you just pop it into a different gear and move on with your life.

I watched the clip a few times and it appears he did bump the stalk upwards but I can't tell if it was accidental or he was trying to perform some function (perhaps unfreeze the display). I can say this much - no single car I have ever driven - manual or automatic - were you ever able to accidentally put into reverse without realizing consciously what you were doing.

I was trying to disengage FSD without feedback. The reverse was accidental.

e) I could definitely have been clearer with my wording but that is how I perceived the situation. “Somehow” I was in reverse.

Yeah that’s what happened.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem

May report if Tesla is not responsive or the lag happens again. As I said, this version has been recalled. The car did not reverse on its own, but it is still unsafe to have indicators fail.

Full self defrosting is right around the corner, if regulators don’t block us it will be GA within a quarter.

General artificial defrosting is finally within our grasp!

General aviation needs defrosting aswell!

"Recall" carries the strong connotation that the vehicle must be driven to an authorized dealership/garage for fixing.

There should be a better word for software issues fixed over the air.

"Recalled In Place"

soft recall vs hard recall? as in software vs hardware...

How about "security patch/fix/update"?

So just call it a bug?

A few months ago Tesla got into trouble because they were silently fixing a big issue with a quiet OTA patch, the law says for such things the manufacturer needs to issue a recall: https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/us-asks-tesla-reca...

In my first car, I defrosted the windshield by twisting a knob with a physical linkage to the baffle in the airbox; it blew on the windshield and I could see where I was going. I have a newer car now, with a button going into some electronic HVAC controller. Some cars now have touchscreens with user-facing software to control it all. It's not an improvement. I wish I could still get a decent car with mechanical climate controls.

I need to buy a vehicle with a back seat in the next couple years and I'm not sure where to start. I don't want a touch screen control panel. I want knobs and buttons. I want to be able to repair most of it myself. My current vehicle is a base model from 2005 and I don't know whether I can get a vehicle under 5 years old that isn't loaded down with tech.

If you know of anything, I'd love to hear about it.

I don't know of anything that's actually the "old-school car" we're looking for, but I've been hearing that the new Civic has knobs and buttons (electronic, not directly mechanical) for the important controls and has a surprisingly roomy back seat and trunk.

I'd rather stick to a couple years old at the most recent. My husband loves his old Civic though. If it ever gives out on him, it's good to know there'll be some options out there.

With the market as it is now, cars a few years old cost almost as much as new cars; it may be worth considering.

Very true. I just got burned when I was younger buying a used car that was under a year old. Everything went wrong with the damn thing and apparently it was just a crappy year for that model. I'm a little gun shy about buying something newer than 2 years old at this point.

I drive Skoda Octavia III. The whole AC is electronic but with physical buttons and knobs (encoders) for everything (except steerwheel heating, but that turns on/off on setting last used when seat heaters turn on/off, which are on physical button). That said, only buttons I use are for defrosting front/back windshield in winter, seat heat and sometimes recirculation for smelly cars. The automatic temperature control works really great, I basically never have to adjust temperature manually. Its matured, ergonomic, thought out, responsive and always working.

Stay away from octavia 4 tho, its their pioneer of "software for everything" (whole climate control on touchscren), and its buggy af. 25% of time something basic wouldnt work, (such as the whole climate control, or even turning on lights!), with more challenging things (like phone pairing) failing basically every second ride.

The 3 is a solid quality no bs car, tho

Whoops, I forgot to mention that I'm in the US. Sounds like those would be good options for me though.

Mazda is pretty allergic to touchscreens and views them as a safety risk. Environmental controls are physical button and knobs in all models I’ve seen, and even the infotainment feature are controlled with buttons and a central knob. I never have to reach up and touch the screen. The screen isn’t even responsive to touch while the car is in motion.

Most American vehicles (Ford, Chevrolet, even Cadillac) still retain the electro-mechanical controls for the HVAC (buttons & rotary encoder with the seven-segment display within for temperature display) even in the 2022 revisions. These are highly reliable devices that use embedded software (think micro-controller or RTOS) to communicate simple messages between the various control modules. 20 years ago some of this was still done entirely in assembly language, the code of which was often documented in 1000+ page paper volumes that would make your average full-stack developer cringe in disbelief.

It appears sanity has prevailed - though Ford sells some higher-end models that have adopted a Tesla-style large portrait display that includes the HVAC. I suppose when you need to sell shiny things to gullible people to move vehicles off the lot....

In my Miata I had to disconnect the heater hoses to avoid them rubbing against the turbo hot side and so the AC is more efficient. Now I find myself manually cranking the window down a bit when it gets foggy. Maybe you don’t have to go to this extreme but all the HVAC stuff is commanded by a wire and flappers that go “FLOMP” every time you move them. This might be satisfying for you.

Mine is a 90 but they were like that for a long time. The 2010 ones might be the same way.

I have an NB1, so I know exactly what you're talking about. I love it. No turbo, though.

Always the answer

Somebody set us up the frost

Main defroster not turn on

Elon: all your Teslas are belong to us

You have no chance to drive

FSD

for great Future

reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us

As an ancient /.'er it's sad that this has to be explained. Sigh.

Still upvoted.

To be honest I debated that, but realized that many may not know what this is.

We need a better word for "recall" when it's a software update to fix it.

In the future there might be something requiring an actual physical fix, but people might see the headline and assume it's just another software update - because most Tesla "recalls" have been software updates.

Not just a software update, but an over-the-air software update. Owners won’t need to take their vehicles to a service center, receive and install hardware updates, or do anything at all in fact. The problem will be fixed one night, likely without their knowledge. “Recall” doesn’t suggest anything like that.

Agree and disagree. I agree the language is confusing, but also I personally don’t care which one it is from a safety standpoint. Even thought it’s a software update, I want that to carry the same negative connotation as a hardware problem. I’m genuinely getting worried about the attitude of “it’s just a software update no big deal.” It’s our lives at stake either way and I don’t really care what the root cause is. If my car isn’t working, that’s not ok

Many recalls are just software fixes. The big differentiator in many minds is whether the fix is OTA, or requires a dealer to plug in to your car's computer. OTA is becoming more common however.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/car-recalls-can-be-in...

My car has a physical button that I press to defrost the window. I'm guessing this triggers some software to turn on the defrosting fans. Is this the same thing in the Tesla except it's a digital button? I can't read the article but I've rarely seen defrosting being described as software. Wondering if this is something different.

It's crazy that regulators still make folks bring cars back to dealers for recalls. Why not just let tesla do OTA updates instead of these massive recalls. Seems stupid.

Many of these recalls are just over the air updates.

A recall is a return or call back of product to the manufacturer for repair. That is the definition of a recall (call back).

Software updates are routinely carried out and don't require a recall of the vehicle to the dealer or manufacturer.

So recalling these vehicles is ridiculous by the authorities.

They're not following our definition of the word. OTA is being used for the update, just as with the previous "California stop" "recall". This whole concept is fairly new, so it shouldn't be surprising that a large bureaucracy is a bit behind.

Not automotive, but in my area of expertise (21CFR):

"Recall means a firm's removal or correction (emphasis mine) of a marketed product that the FDA considers to be in violation of the laws it administers and against which the agency would initiate legal action, e.g., seizure. "

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