Ask HN: Is ADHD Real?
Just got officially diagnosed with ADHD.
I am still wondering if this thing is a real disorder or just a consequence of modern overstimulated world and my general lack of planning abilities?
ADHD is very real, but just because someone struggles to focus or plan doesn't mean ADHD is the explanation. ADHD's impact is wide-ranging and nuanced, with possible symptoms like "emotional impermanence" (you forget or disbelieve how someone feels about you if they haven't told you very recently), or having "time blindness" (a poor sense of time, where it's hard to process anything more nuanced than "now" and "not now"). And ADHD doesn't always mean you outright "can't" function normally; sometimes you can but it'll just much more draining than for a normal person.
Here's an article I found fascinating about how ADHD brains behave differently at a physical level: https://www.additudemag.com/current-research-on-adhd-breakdo...
The Translating ADHD podcast is pretty good at discussing the lifestyle impact side of ADHD. That's an angle that neurodiversity research literature broadly doesn't cover much.
Asking how it is measured, what kind of effect it has, whether the effects are meaningful, how it can be explained, whether there are more appropriate labels, what kind of alternative explanations exist, etc.
Asking whether something is "real" fails even when talking about fundamental physical phenomena like gravity, math or consciousness. So, this is almost always the wrong question.
The opioid crisis was a manufactured crisis by the greedy big pharma, right? Looking at how anyone and everyone is being prescribed stimulant medicines these days, I have my reservations about this disorder
Signed, someone with ADHD in a country without an opioid crisis and who out of necessity manages to live without medication but who definitely benefitted from them when they had them.
I hope sincere curiosity is permitted. Good luck to you. Hope you are able to find help :)
A psychological disorder is a set of symptoms that negatively affects several areas in the life of the person experiencing them. That's about it. We group symptoms that often coincide and give the groups names. Getting a diagnosis is a trained professional confirming that you 1) have the symptoms and 2) confirming that it negatively affects your life. That's it. The cause of ADHD -- whether it's caused by the hustling modern world, a multitude, or any other cause -- is entirely irrelevant to a discussion about the "real"-ness of the disorder.
And of course, finding a root cause for ADHD would be incredibly useful for preventing it and helping people with it. But if the cause was found to be the modern overstimulated world that doesn't change anything about the disorder -- it's just as real as if humans have been dealing with it for 200,000 years.
Anywho, didn’t expect HN to be this hostile and over-analyzing a genuine concern. So, I won’t waste my time trying to reason with anyone further.
> I have my reservations about this disorder
It's hard to read any other way than someone who wants to question if ADHD is real, don't you agree?
Yet it is still more and more discovered to be a more widespread issue than thought.
Just because a medicated opportunity exists doesn’t mean it’s an exploit on the population or that it doesn’t help people using it.
You'll also discover that you have innate strengths and creativity that will be way above your peers who do not have ADHD and you should and can harness those strengths and creativity to further your career or passions in life.
Now that you know a bit more about yourself, you have an exciting journey ahead of you to discover your true potential.
I'm not downplaying how hard having ADHD can be with regards to certain aspects of your life, but try not to focus on the negatives that people are posting; you'll have a great road ahead!
With a diagnosis you are equipped with updated instructions for yourself.
For instance, if you are having a hard time focusing on getting some work done, rather than fighting it or beating yourself up about it (my frequent go to), you can enact some behavioral intervention to help get you back on course.
It helps to reflect on what, if anything, could be done to set yourself to avoid these problems in the future.
The probability of me having a good day increases with the following: physical activity, good hydration, sleep hygeine, and not to beat myself up if things go awry.
If you go with meds, you must meet your meds half way.
People that specialize in mental health, psychiatry and brain research have concluded that ADHD is a diagnosable mental disorder. I'm glad they're doing that instead of trying to write books on rust or go.
More to your question, I think a lot of the common hesitance and skepticism is the result of stigma in the vein of anti-vax ideas. Some lay people think they know better than the medical community and won't hesitate to tell you their unqualified opinion. Consider them nuts. Try some treatments, read some books, work on your systems of support, and always remember it's REAL, don't be ashamed to struggle. You're not making it up. You're not faking it. You're not bad.
It might not be obvious to other people, but you just need a little help, like when someone breaks their leg or gets the flu. It's no one's business anyway, unless you decide to confide in them.
That's a pretty useless response when the entire premise is that you have no idea whether the task is simple or difficult. It really only makes sense when you already kind of understand the ease or difficulty of the task, at which point the response is kind of redundant. It would've been a lot more helpful if he'd said something more like, "This requires professional expertise, it's not something laymen can do." That would actually give you useful context.
Imagine how silly this exchange would sound when talking to a car mechanic regarding routine maintenance: "Are there any tools I can use to replace/jump-start/whatever my car battery?" "Would you want a mechanic messing with your code?" Uh, no, but the answer to the first question is "yes" nevertheless...
>I think a lot of the common hesitance and skepticism is the result of stigma in the vein of anti-vax ideas.
Definitely disagree. ADHD has been misunderstood as "laziness" and many things similar for a very long time. It's not a recent phenomenon.
At the end of the day, who really cares if it is a real condition or not? What I know is that my life is improved when I take Concerta. If I didn't have ADHD/ADHD wasn't real, and Concerta made my life better, then that still doesn't change the end result of taking meds = net positive.
> People that specialize in mental health, psychiatry and brain research have concluded that ADHD is a diagnosable mental disorder. I'm glad they're doing that instead of trying to write books on rust or go.
Except the problem with the mental health industry is famously that the 'specialists' don't actually listen to the patients/clients/etc., and operate on wildly inaccurate and outdated views that ultimately end up harming those they are "treating".
Yes, ADHD is real, but "because a bunch of psychiatrists said so" is very much not the reason. And the specific way in which they describe it generally has almost nothing to do with what ADHD really is or how it's experienced by those who have it.
The medical community doesn't have a great track record. Things have largely improved where most parts of the body are concerned, but I think psychiatry and psychology are still in their "four humours" phase.
* My mind is silent without stimulus. I no longer desperately crave to cram every living second with input, I am OK with sitting down and doing nothing for a while.
* I now live up to my own standards: if I think that I should do something, I am way more likely to do it (tidying, running errands, making phone calls etc).
* Sloppiness and "I'll do that later"-isms are severely reduced, I tend to finish what I start.
* I no longer interject or interrupt people with tangential trivia when an idea pops into my head.
* I can listen to other people for longer, even if I find the subject boring.
For the first time in my life, I am able to function like other people without having to rely on innate ability and motivation to do basic tasks.
Small correction: I got my diagnosis when I was 31, late in my life (in context). Phrased that a bit poorly.
> How did you get through the earlier parts of life un treated?
In a lot of ways I didn't. Spent most of my time gaming, programming and doing (combat) sports, as they were the only activities that stimulated me enough to where I could focus.
> Did you do well in school?
The few times I made an effort, yes. In the large, no. Most of my teachers realized that I was capable, and sympathized with my position (poor family, ill parents), which via social engineering gave me good enough grades to get into (the equivalent of) college, which I later dropped out of.
> If you don't mind me asking, what made you get the diagnosis in your late 30s?
Approaching seniority at work, where my skills aren't just outputting code, but attending (and contributing in) meetings. Combined with the birth of my son, I realized that I could no longer lean on strengths and humor to get me forward in life.
People, including off-the-clock-psycho(logists/therapists) have suggested that I have some variant of ADD/ADHD for as long as I can remember. I never did anything with it, as there wasn't enough pressure to justify me making the slightest effort at improving the quality of my every day experience.
It's a strange feeling to now be (effectively) "normal", and to realize that I was never (just) lazy. In a sense, my life started a few weeks ago; for once I am in control, and it feels wonderful.
Did you get the correct diagnosis? Well, no idea how even the best & brightest internet crowd could guess.
Do features of ADHD interact with one's way of life? Hell yeah! It goes both positively (e.g. providing much-needed stimulation) and negatively (modern media & marketing prey on the addiction to dopamine kicks).
Regardless if you have it or not (and since it is a spectrum, the answer is not binary) - try "How To ADHD" YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx13a2-unjE) and the book "Driven to Distraction" (https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Distraction-Revised-Recognizin...). It might help you in understanding yourself.
I’m slightly confused that person who provided you with diagnosis didn’t provide you with overview of how ADHD works.
The answer to the question not asked (based on this accounts posting history) is that if you want to learn to deal with it and your life successfully, you should see a therapist specializing in adhd. Many people are scared of therapy because it seems like an admission you’re broken or that their issues “aren’t that bad”. It’s not like that. Think of it like going to the gym to improve, not to a mechanic to be fixed.
See the comment from davzie, it can be a unique advantage for you and how you approach life and work.
But yes, it is very real and plenty of people have a specific set of characteristics and behaviors that are unique and associated with one another. That’s generally what disorders like that are. Some social media (esp TikTok I’ve found) tend to push a narrative and are often full of factually incorrect people trying to be “relatable” for likes/views. It’s good you’ve been diagnosed, hopefully by someone with true knowledge on the matter. There are tons of resources available online and offline that you can reference. Again, a therapist can be a great resource. They talk to lots of people who experience the same thing as you, and can provide insight into what works for others (eg to get through long video/content like another question you asked here). The solution is not always medication, but you shouldn’t be scared of it regardless.
I highly recommend you treat it as an actual disorder because the sooner you address it, the less it will affect important parts of your life, especially your relationships.
I feel your pain. It's definitely helpful when your partner knows about your condition. Unfortunately, ADHD is never a long term excuse.
- First, folks with ADHD tend to lack empathy. It's ironic because we also tend to be very sensitive to others' emotions, leading us to think that we are feeling empathy. It's not.
- Second, we have an absentmindedness that leads non-ADHD spouses to tear their hair. They often feel you're deliberately ignoring them. We often cover up for ourselves with pointless, white lies. Spouses can come to believe that you are perpetually dishonest.
- Third, we're impulsive. That leads us to do things we shouldn't. We also can't help ourselves from doing many things our sig others ask us not to do.
Besides that, our impaired executive function means we have extremely poor awareness time. On a short time frame, folks with ADHD are almost always late to every type of event. On a long time frame, we can be very poor savers and bad at planning for far-in-the-future events like retirement. Untreated, someone with ADHD will unfairly burden their spouse with all the planning in the household.
I found that a combination of medication, practicing mindfulness, and even having a mere awareness of your tendencies wins you 90% of the battle.
I've been in a relationship and now marriage for almost 15 years now – I cannot imagine what it would be like maintaining this thing without acknowledging the gravity of ADHD on many aspects of the relationship.
This is a misconception. It's much like the misconception autistic people lack empathy. Some people without the condition lack the empathy to imagine any other explanation.
People with ADHD miss non verbal signals more often. They're more prone to difficulty putting their feelings and thoughts into words. They're more forgetful on average. Those things strain a relationship for sure. They aren't lack of empathy though.
> We often cover up for ourselves with pointless, white lies.
This isn't inherent to ADHD. Many people without ADHD do it. Many people with ADHD don't.
The lack of empathy, absentmindedness (emotional object permanence), the clutter I'd leave in places, and the nuclear levels of frustration I get when I'm interrupted during a session of hyper focus / flow state (on something probably entirely pointless) was a huge grind on her. She would tell me that she misses feeling loved, but I sucked at love language, since my mind is basically a stream of shower thoughts and unimportant nonsense amid a constant internal dichotomy of 'tell her you feel loved' but not actually doing anything. She would have problems at work and I would come up with like, the most obvious solutions, and that would make her even more distressed (learning to JUST listen is hard for ADHD people).
On the bright side, our personalities are almost polar opposites, so turns out we mesh really well. Basically, she wants control. She's a manager at her work. She loves to plan, and I can't/hate to plan (e.g. I'm planning her birthday party and it's driving both of us crazy). She lays out the household budget and keeps everything paid with YNAB...I only save money because she tells me to put #% of my paycheck in our 401K). Fortunately I'm unusually punctual (I never forget about and often arrive TOO early to appointments, lol). Control makes her happy, but it's not controlling - she is highly supportive of my hobbies and pursuits, and I return the favor by giving her my time in her pursuits and enjoyments (traveling, homemaking, complaining about work, etc).
Over the 4 years I've worked out a lot of coping strategies, mantras, conditioning, etc to avoid problems before they start, and she's learned a lot about what I really mean when I say xyz or do abc.
Like now, I can't stand clutter. In lieu of my workbench clutter are dozens labeled boxes. Everything has a home. I can't focus on doing work or personal activities until the sink is cleared. I put the banana peels straight in the compost bin before even eating it.
If my wife is lamenting her shitty day, I just say, "that really sucks" and hug her and give the emotions time to settle before even thinking about making a suggestion (even though internally I'm emotionally blank and thinking of said suggestions lol). If I'm in a flow state, and my wife enters the setting, I prepare myself - take a breath, disengage slightly, look at her and smile. Even if she isn't there to say something and is just walking by, it grounds me and totally stops the frustration meltdown I get. She can also tell if I'm in a stoic, focused state and has knows when to break in.
Mindfulness is still a struggle for me. The moment I take a second to be mindful, the moment I remember that one thing.
But overall, it really takes a strong bond, and/or really good couples therapy, for ones significant other to make changes to their mindset and lifestyle to adapt to the discovery of ADHD. I can easily see the reason for why divorce rates are high wherein men in heterosexual relationships are so commonly attributed to inattentiveness and lack of empathy, that's it's a trope of like every Sunday comic or boomer facebook meme. If only they knew...
My partner and me both have ADHD & ADD. She likes working and being busy so medication is a valid choice for her to keep feeling active.
I on the other side don't care about being busy. My medication is being self employed and forming my schedule after my emotions and motivation thrives.
It doesn't change whatever we have ADHD or not. In the end it's just about making most out of every living moment.
ADHD is especially ambiguous because a lot of the behavioral treatments probably work for non-ADHD: prioritize your work, avoid distractions, have one clear calendar, set reminders on your phone, etc.
At the end of the day, if you follow both medical and non-medical treatment options, and your life improves, does it matter if it's "real" or not?
which makes sense if those are abnormal levels of neuromodulators like serotonin, cortisol, and dopamine.
You can try therapy. Or not. You can try medication. Or not. The diagnosis is simply more information about your situation. Talk to professionals, explore your options, reflect back on what works for you.
I had internalised my lack of structure and focus as a moral failure. It’s hard to uproot it. I still feel like a fraud (as in trying to escape my moral failure with an ADHD diagnosis)
It should only be "treated" if it affects one's life negatively (which it often does in the modern world, unless you are guerilla herding sheep / living a generally interesting life). So, people "born that way" can suffer more in modern world than they did say 20 or 200 years ago. There is evidence that medication helps.
There is an interesting book on the topic: _ADHD: A Hunter in a Farmer's World_
Disclosure: I am diagnosed as an adult with ADHD ("primarily innatentive" subtype).
Regardless, I found it helpful to see my neurodivergence not as a medical condition or "weirdness". I have trouble living "normal" life, but am still a valid person, be it "brain damage" or "ancestor of night guard / hunter-gatherer".
And here I am, both loving and hating my job as software dev. Got here because of hyperfocus and easy dopamine from quick iteration. Sometimes hooked on being in a different world all day, sometimes dying from being stuck in office chair for 8+ hours a day. Go figure :D
The patterns were jaw-dropping. My graphs were all theta. It's like I'm driving my brain around with the handbrake on. It was pretty startling. I dropped that EEG project after a few hours lol I should get back to it to see if I can change my brainwaves...
Anyways, here's some links to give a cardinal direction on this:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23086616/
https://www.additudemag.com/slideshows/neurofeedback-for-adh...
Btw, in light of the EEG, what sort of treatments or interventions did your doctors prescribe?
It wasn't a standard procedure. My mother works at a neurochirurgy-focused hospital clinic and the doctor who measured it basically told her "hold my beer, I can see it", and so I went to see it. It was nice because this doctor also referred me to MRI just to be safe.
There is a scientific debate still whether it is 'real' or not, you will run into psychotherapists and psychiatrists who tell you it isn't real - you will run into clinicians and specialists who have helped people immensely by treating it as real.
Whether or not they reach agreement, what is a fact is that there are people who have various problems with adapting to our modern structured life (distractability is only one of many issues connected to the complex) that benefit immensely from various approaches to the complex of issues we mean when we say ADHD.
Edit: I myself got diagnosed and tried Ritalin - but after a year switched to antidepressants because it was better for me to manage my anxiety to not fall into depression from burning out (anxiety that is basically conditioned coping due to distractability, hyperfocus and emotional disregulation).
If you diagnosed yourself (or by a friend) after consulting some articles on Internet then of course.
If you got diagnosed by a medical professional (and preferably by not a one) then there is a chance it is real.
But the biggest problem with ADD/ADHD is what even if someone can properly understand what there is a problem it is rare when someone could do something with it without external help.
Not quite. The key difference is the reaction to some medicaments which have quite opposite effects on a regular and AD* person.
Otherwise I have the ADHD solely on the reason I didn't do shit in the last two years because I could only do something for 15 minutes and then have hours on Reddit/Zandronum.
But true, this is the thing a doctor does after the checklist to confirm his diagnose.
Edit: i would also add that learning proper coping mechanisms is at least as important as taking medications in that the pills would have very little effect unless taken with the correct mindset.
The term ‘variable attention stimulation trait’ (VAST) has also been proposed by Hallowel to describe this theory, and may more accurately describe the condition than the term ‘ADHD’.
I don't understand your response. Are you trying to invalidate the existence of ADHD because its prevalence has risen in the digital age?
The first step is the diagnosis, the next step is to actually learn how it affects you personally and where on the ADHD spectrum you are. Some people are horrible with concentration, some others have no issue with that but are very emotionally impulsive. Some people lose interest on things extremely quick and jump around hobbies they obsess, some can’t sit still, some are very emotionally sensitive to rejection and and and.
I can also recommend reading /r/ADHD on reddit and listening to talks by Dr.Berkley to understand what ADHD actually entails
Didn’t expect HackerNews to be this hostile.
Please don't receive parent as hostile, I can assure you they are not. We've all grown up being told we're lazy, overstimulated, and lacked discipline. Please understand that your question "Is ADHD Real? [..] I am still wondering .. this is a real disorder [..] ?" can be perceived as a gaslight, as it seemed less an earnest question and more of a comment, really.
Think about it like this: depression is real. Everyone can feel a bit "depressed" sometimes or grieve after experiencing emotional hardships, but that doesn't mean depression isn't real.
Also much like depression doesn't simply manifest in being sad all the time, ADHD doesn't simply manifest in being distracted all the time. I've heard ADHD described as an inability to control what your brain focuses on rather than a lack of focus, but it can vary between persons.
As to whether you in particular actually "have ADHD" (i.e. meet the formal diagnostic criteria of the DSM condition by that name) that's between you and your therapist to decide.
That’s a common problem of diagnosis, but you have the same problem with those you receive the diagnosis. Americans are often much more interested in finding labels to describe problems in life, and I’d be very careful not to consider any label ascribed to you as being a limiting factor for your own personal growth.
I'm classified closer to -PI because I'm not like a hyper woman friend, but I still have abour half of the symptoms in each area but not enough to be called -C.
My parents believed it was a psychiatry conspiracy theory, which only caused me more problems for years of non management.
Yes, I read the entire post in detail. He clearly mentions that there’s significantly increased risk of parkinson’s with long term medication use.
I don’t believe anything blindly without reading both sides of the argument. Don’t know about HN crowd, but I don’t want to commit to lifetime of stimulant medication without researching the potential side effects first.
Honestly, you should be having all of these conversations with your therapist without thinking you’re smarter than it all. ADHD is a journey of discovery that you can’t pontificate about without maintaining a relationship with someone qualified to help you out.
My understanding is that the behaviors are real and actually do differ from typical behaviors, and that the general collection of behaviors are actually labeled ADHD. So in that sense it’s definitely real.
It seems like the question you really want to ask is what is the cause of those behaviors, and is it internal or external.
With disorders of the brain that lack an understood cause I find it useful to think of things in this way.
Is Alzheimer real or is that just wicked old farts abusing younger people patience?
Is ADHD real or is that just an excuse for lazy naughty kids?
Yes these are real conditions. And by the way adults can also have ADHD. One can even develop it later after graduating.
The fact many people or entire countries deny ADHD exists or believe it can only affect kids is a horror.
Although something you do want to ask your doctor is why you are getting this diagnosis. If it can be linked back to something satisfyingly physical or not that will give you more useful guidance than whether the label is consistently applied or not.
With diagnoses about mental function, you can never ever just make a simple binary statement. Many ailments come in degrees of severity. Others - come in episodes by time.
ADHD is a diagnosis given after other explanations have been eliminated. So if it seems to not fit that may be an accurate hunch.
You could have learned this in about five minutes of Google searching.
It rests like an eagle on the wind
An anxious eye triggers a thousand ideas
Driven by a single motion below
A twitching grass blade,
A shifting sparkle from the water's edge
No uncalled cure beckons my mind
No defect can I find
Fix me not you callous normal
And care for your own hollow cave
Yes, it does to me. I don’t want to pop pills all my life. Anywho, I am logging out and won’t be engaging with anyone further.
https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo...
It's highly studied and *mostly* psychologically and physiologically understood, insofar that the main (theorized) issue - dopamine dysregulation in the brain that causes disorders of executive functions - is effectively treated with CBT, lifestyle changes, and stimulants (among other medications that target dopaminergic system or otherwise).
In those without ADHD, the same treatments are not helpful, i.e. their brain has plenty of dopamine, so something else is wrong. That's a gross oversimplification, but even the mere fact of having a diagnosis will help you and those close to you understand why your brain works the way it works, and begin your path in developing strategies to work around those "executive dysfunctions." It'll also give you the ability to work with your psychiatrist to try different medicines/dosages/therapies/lifestyle changes that will most certainly help.
The idea of it not being real comes from this idea that certain parents seek the diagnosis to "fix" or have a reason for their (mental) hyperactivity (bad grades, getting in trouble, etc). These are also parents who provide far too little stimulation, attention, exercise, and enrichment to their children. Some have turned it into a conspiracy or a societal flaw because the main treatment is stimulants. The irony is that because ADHD is genetic, there's a great likelihood that the parent themselves has undiagnosed ADHD and a result of their disorder was providing too little enrichment for their child, which (caveat: nature vs. nurture is up for debate) probably had a negative effect on the resident ADHD traits, exposing and possibly worsening them to the point of it being a problem. ADHD was not a diagnosed condition in the boomer/genX generation because, well, doctors sucked. Kid not paying attention? Yell at them. Kid having bad grades? Take away their fun. Kid getting into trouble? Spank them.
Yes, that stimulant is amphetamines. And one can abuse it, get high on it, and succumb to addiction. But the dosages in ADHD treatment are extremely low - just enough that there is a perceptible change in executive function that significantly diminish those hyperactive traits of the ADHD brain. To a person with ADHD, it's like putting glasses on for the first time. The brain does build up a tolerance, so if it's not properly administered under the care of a psychiatrist, it can become ineffective or the user can self-medicate beyond safe levels. That's why ADHD treatment must be a life-long, holistic approach where medicine plays an important role as much as diet, exercise, moderation, therapy, etc. But that's not to say it's a debilitating illness; ADHD people are extraordinary creative minds, are often incredible crisis, high-pressure environment workers (paramedics, dispatchers, ER surgeons, mission control operators lol), and are really really good at deeply focusing their passion on one thing in an almost superhuman way (lawyers, gamers (speed runners holy shit), writers, artists etc)
Now, that more people are getting ADHD diagnoses (and capitol punishment is abolished lol), it's normalized to the point where taking ADHD medications is almost no different than using glasses to correct blurry vision - as it should be. Documentaries on the subject are still overwhelmingly negative brainwashing attempts by crazy people (big pharma drugging our kids with adderall bad), and it's still got a long way to go (even the name Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder sucks, while the term Neurodiversity is making strides as a general replacement for labels of common mental disorders)...but think about how far we've come.
Note: I'm making some unscientific, unfounded claims here backed up only by way too much hyperfocused reading on the topic. I'm currently seeking an ADHD diagnosis myself, because so many of my traits (and my parents) are explained by it (that I always thought were just normal struggles), and some prescribed stimulant medication for weight loss (appetite suppression) unlocked a side of me I never thought probable.