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Comment by hunter2_ | Hacker News Reader

For situations where laws allow for sub-standard wages, such as restaurant wait staff, I agree with you. It's not really an option, it's exhausting, there's no point.

For situations that aren't codified into law like that, it can more legitimately be modulated according to how the service made you feel, from zero to "keep the change" to a couple bucks to sky's the limit.

The former should be solved by abolishing tipping. The latter should be solved by technology that's somehow as frictionless as cash.

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> laws allow for sub-standard wages, such as restaurant wait staff

The law does not allow for sub-standard wages, however. If everyone stopped tipping today, wait staff would get the same minimum wage as any other job.

No, actually the law allows for below-minimum hourly wages for tipped jobs. That's the whole issue...

Employers are obliged to ensure that employees they are paying below minimum wage because the employee gets tips get paid at least minimum wage including tips.

If an employee lets their employer know they did not earn enough tips to meet minimum wage, then the employer must pay them more to ensure they get minimum wage.

Also, in many jurisdictions of the US where the same minimum wage applies to traditionally tipped employees, the tipping dynamic has remained. For example in California, Oregon, and Washington, the cultural expectation is that customers will still tip waiters, even though the waiters are earning the same minimum wage as everyone else.

For those curious, this is accurate according to Department of Labor: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

However, I think the point being advocated in this thread is that businesses should have to pay minimum wage (before tips). That said, it would be interesting how employers would respond if that was required by law - since removing tips would not save the employer any money, I wonder if that would result in less hiring.

You can see the results in states that have no tipped minimum wage, such as WA/CA/OR.

Generally, restaurant prices are higher (minimum $25 per meal per person without alcoholic drinks), but tipping is still expected by the waiters for waited service. Bottom line is waiters earn more money, but possibly fewer people can afford to eat out and maybe there are fewer waiters overall.

I dislike waited food service anyway, I much prefer to just buy at the counter and bus my own table, and it might result in more restaurants like that.

What are your thoughts about using a counter and self-bussing but the clerk faces a tablet at you with 3 large buttons: 18%, 20%, 25% ?

Not only will the personal service be minimal, but the only part you can even judge at that point is how well they took your order... who knows if something will go south! So it's clearly just about keeping menu prices artificially low.

I have always been able to choose “no tip”, along with those other options.

If it was not there, then depending on who I was with, I would either walk out or eat the cost and then never go back and leave a review that says they bait and switch pricing.

Tipping is about price segmentation / discrimination. Good for the seller, bad for the buyer.

In Massachusetts, the minimum wage for tipped service staff is $6.15--appalling for 2022 with inflation hitting 30-year highs.

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