Hacker News Reader

Comment by chrchang523 | Hacker News Reader

Like Elon Musk, he wasn't born in the US and is therefore ineligible. (edit: "natural-born citizen" is not as well-defined as I thought, and Ted Cruz qualifies on account of having a US citizen parent at the time of his birth. But it's clear that Thiel doesn't.)

View on HN

That requirement seems pretty bizarre to myself as a non-US person. Haven't heard of being natural born as a requirement for president before, but seems like another aspect that the US shares with a small list of other countries.

It seems pretty on-brand to be honest though, I wonder why that rule exists and what benefit it provides. The first couple presidents couldn't have met it, so I wonder when it was introduced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidential_qualifica...

Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President"

The first few presidents were citizens of the US when the Constitution was adopted (previously, the US had been governed by the Articles of Confederation.)

This rule was enacted to prevent Alexander Hamilton from becoming president. He also wasn't born in the US. The term "naturalized" wasn't yet well defined.

The first American born president (born after the revolution) was Van Buren, the first 7 were born British citizens!

This is a common belief, but it is false. The eligibility provision has an oft-forgotten second clause:

> No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;

Hamilton was a citizen at the time of the Constitution’s adoption and was therefore eligible to run for president should he have been so inclined.

> The first American born president (born after the revolution) was Van Buren, the first 7 were born British citizens!

Van Buren was born in NY, in the US, but was the only president that used English as a second language. Both of his parents were of Dutch descent.

> I wonder why that rule exists and what benefit it provides. The first couple presidents couldn't have met it, so I wonder when it was introduced.

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President" from section 1, Article 2 of the US Constitution (adopted 1789).

There is some legal debate about what "natural born Citizen" means now, but that has not fully been testing in court IIUC.

I think it only really comes up for debate when someone wants to question the eligibility of Presidential candidates for political reasons. I recall a rather minor kerfuffle around McCain’s eligibility (born in the Panama Canal Zone when it was under US Jurisdiction) back in the ‘08 election that was basically meaningless and I think then Senator Obama sponsored a bill that basically clarified this.

There’s two sources of law for determining citizenship though: 1. The Constitution and 2. Laws that Congress passes. If you’re born a citizen according to either of these sources, congrats, you’re a natural born citizen.

It's interesting because the US also has unconditional jus soli citizenship (if you are born on American soil, no matter what your circumstances, you are granted citizenship). Nearly all major countries in the Americas have jus soli citizenship, but very few countries outside the Americas do.

It’s an 18th century solution to the problem of foreign kings.

It was to prevent foreign influence. The first couple presidents all met it, having been born in territory that became the U.S.. Mexico also did similar things with property rights surrounding the end of the Spanish mission era, in effort to remove Spanish influence.

Yep, it seems like a bizarre relic of a bygone era. This actually made me wonder if there's any place else in the government with this requirement. As far as I know, it only applies to the president. But what about the Vice President? He or she could be promoted if the president leaves. Then what about the Speaker of the House (3rd in line and I believe there is literally no requirement for the job; they're not even required to be a member of the house). I'm sure someone's thought through this already and there's a plan in place, but I never had.

Being born outside the US doesn't have much to do with it. The requirement is to be a "natural born citizen", and anyone born to a US citizen will qualify, regardless of where in the world that was. It's the same reason why Ted Cruz and John McCain were eligible for the office despite not being born in the US.

I have no idea about Thiel's specific case, and it doesn't seem like there's any info about it online.

“Natural born citizen” is the technical qualifier. Many natural born citizens aren’t born in the US.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com