Israel is having its Edward Snowden moment | Hacker News Reader

Israel is having its Edward Snowden moment

haaretz.com

48 pointscaaqil18 comments

> Israel is having its Edward Snowden moment. Not in the sense that an employee of its intelligence community has defected to Russia while leaking hundreds of thousands of top-secret files to the media.

Pretty tendentious to say that "Edward Snowden has defected to Russia".

He hasn't defected to Russia. He has fled the USA, and Rusia gave him asylum. Very different.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defect

> to leave one situation (such as a job) often to go over to a rival

He didn't leave one in order to go to the rival. He left one and then went to the rival.

This is important; words matter, especially in this delicate case.

Why did Russia of all the countries give him asylum?

Genuinely curious on what Snowden thinks on how Russian gov handles their dissenters compared to US.

Maybe because Russia realized that Edward Snowden had a powerful name and they'd win favour with the lefties of the world if they protected him? That's one possibility. Or maybe because "let me try and be friends with the (perceived) enemies of my enemies." (although Snowden wouldn't characterize himself as an enemy of the US).

The important point is - a good thing done for bad reasons, might still be better than a bad thing.

Because he was stuck in the Sheremetevo airport when U.S. authorities remotely disabled his passport. He just ended up there. I think he was trying to go to South America or Cuba or something.

Except his passport was cancelled on 2013-06-22 and he flew out to Moscow from HK on the 23rd.

Maybe Russian authorities just honored his ticket? Or time zone issues rendered the cancellation a day too late?

He probably chose Russia understanding that other countries would give him up sooner or later (does Assange story tell you anything?).

Snowden was forced to seek asylum in Russia by Biden, specifically, because the US would not agree to prosecute his case fairly, in public, in civilian court. If I was a whistle-blower and was being pursued by a government that wanted to drop me in a black site, I think it's a no-shit-Sherlock decision to run like hell.

They were so desperate to protect the Five Eyes mutual spying and the vast terrifying illegal surveillance network that they decided it was better to effectively exile the whistle-blower.

Imagine the shit that Biden rubber stamps.

The U.S. would have bigger problems if the President could guarantee prosecutorial decisions.[1] If Snowden's defense lawyers wanted particular guarantees regarding how they can present their defense, they should be talking to Congress, or at least to the DoJ, not the President.

[1] And almost did, not too long ago.

Obama went after him hard, and Biden, specifically, ran Snowden to ground in Russia, specifically, as a political gambit to discredit Snowden. Specifically.

They announced exactly how he was going to be captured and tried, and it didn't involve the Constitutional protections afforded citizens. Snowden didn't run because he was afraid of going to court, but because the US intended to disappear him.

Snowden is afraid to go to court because, unfortunately, he has no viable defense to the charges. Snowden's defense lawyers want to make a so-called "public interest" defense, but neither the DoJ nor the courts are likely to permit such a defense. (Though, I'm unsure if a court might allow it if the prosecution failed to challenge it.) This is a well known point of contention publicly described by both Snowden and his lawyers for years now.

This is why people, including Snowden himself, can have such a high degree of confidence in the outcome of any trial. For the situation to change, Congress probably needs to modify the law.

Snowden's recent timeline suggests, at least, some degree of transferred loyalty to the Russian Federation. This is coincidental to his bid for citizenship.

At this time, Snowden is pushing the USA to de-escalate tensions by withdrawing support for Ukraine.

Snowden has changed to a full-blown supporter of Assange, as well as to an outspoken critic of recent US FP decisions. He has increasingly shown public loyalty to Russia.

This is all coming a decade after the fact, though.

It was quite clear at the time that he never intended to end up in Russia. A decade on after all of his stolen intelligence is stale, it’s not surprising he would feel pressure to give some concessions to the Russians given that there has been no change back in the US with regards to charging him as a traitor.

Snowden is charged with theft, not treason. He knew that his actions would result in a closed-door trial without the possibility of a public interest defense. He signed a large stack of non-disclosure agreements that spelled out the consequences.

Whatever the perception may have been after 2013, it still is an open question as to Snowden's intent. His first stop in HK, along with his disclosure of US cyber activities against Chinese servers, indicated possible intent to defect to an adversarial state. His next stop was to Moscow, after he may have visited Russian handlers while still in HK. His Moscow voyage did occur a day after his passport was cancelled. He was almost certainly advised, via Assange's camp, that Russia would be a suitable destination. This almost certainly factored into his decision to seek a flight that stopped in Moscow. At best, this was likely a fall-back strategy as it was clear to him and his supporters that hiding in a South American country would not provide the same degree of protection afforded by Russia.

It is difficult to take Snowden's word on his account regarding motivations and (supposed lack of) conspirations. His actions took place during the Magnitsky debacle, including his initial contact to Greenwald.

(redacted)

Look at his agenda now. He speaks as if he's on USA's side. Yet he admits he no longer represents the USA, speaks out against the USA, and chooses to avoid facing justice. Defection is not a difficult working conclusion to reach at this point, possibly pre-meditated. He certainly had the opsec to cover his tracks while still stateside, having been trained by the CIA.

Snowden, you were silent when Putin declared war on Ukraine in 2014 by annexing Crimea, and you are voicing support for the Kremlin. From my point of view, you are, at this point, a defector to the Russian Federation. You will cowardly avoid facing justice. Your actions have had vast and largely immeasurable consequences to the detriment of western national security -- all of which will be revealed behind closed doors if you choose to return and face the charges against you.

He’s charged under the espionage act, I think that’s enough to colloquially refer to as “being charged as a traitor”.

The only reason he’s likely not being charged with treason is the extremely high bar set by the constitution.

Look back at the whole Snowden event has me thinking. Did it really change anything? Sure there was outrage and a lot of news coverage on it but did anything else really come of it?

We still willingly put all our private life details online. We still willingly use companies we know give the NSA access.

To me it seems like society just collectively shrugged our shoulders and moved on. That is really what scares me the most. Especially when you realize during certain time frames up to 85% of all about queries were not compliant. (page 82 https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FI...)

Wasn't Mordechai Vanunu the original Edward Snowden?

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