Comment by stale2002 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by stale2002 | Hacker News Reader

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> the 15% fee

Huh. It's almost like pressuring apple with legal action forced them to lower their fees. That's pretty nice. Sounds like we need to more of that.

> pretend they are relevant.

It is relevant because it supports my general point that every loss for apple, is one less thing that they can do, and that there are a bunch of ways that they are being attacked, on many fronts.

Apple has to win on everything, or it is a loss, compared to nothing happening.

> It’s unlikely to pass judicial review

People are not making any significant arguments that the law is illegal or unconstitutional. Laws aren't unconstitutional just because you don't like them.

These types of laws are attempting to be passed in lots of countries. So no, all of these laws everywhere, that lots of countries are trying to pass, are not all illegal.

> that make life harder for smaller developers

Nobody is making the Apple App store illegal. Those developers can continue to use that, if they prefer it. It is just other companies can choose something else if they want.

> People are not making any significant arguments that the law is illegal or unconstitutional. Laws aren't unconstitutional just because you don't like them.

Don’t be silly. The bill only passed committee last week. Arguments over constitutionality will come in due course.

> These types of laws are attempting to be passed in lots of countries. So no, all of these laws everywhere,

No they aren’t.

> that lots of countries are trying to pass, are not all illegal.

That remains to be seen.

> that make life harder for smaller developers Nobody is making the Apple App store illegal. Those developers can continue to use that, if they prefer it. It is just other companies can choose something else if they want.

This simply isn’t true.

If a developer has to negotiate with a multitude of different stores, each with different rules, their life will be harder.

Given that the alternative is to lose access to customers, it’s the small developers who will be harmed most by this.

These bills are supported by giant corporations who want to run their own stores. It’s just about them taking a cut, and has nothing to do with consumers or small developers.

> Arguments over constitutionality will come in due course

Which means that you have absolutely no justification for the law being illegal. You just don't like it, and are reaching for whatever things that you can, without any justification.

> That remains to be seen.

This is code for "I have absolutely no good arguments, or any legal justification, for why it is illegal, I just want to assert that it is illegal because I don't like it!".

Because if you had good arguments you would have said them.

So I have no idea why you are making these strong claims that it is very unlikely that it will pass constitutional review, when your only justification is "that remains to be seen".

> No they aren’t.

Yes they are. Go look up the EU tech laws that they are attempting to pass. They include a similar provision, that would force other app stores on the platform.

You are pretty misinformed if you didn't know that there was a big EU tech law, that they are attempting to write and pass right now.

The points you were responding to are just rebuttals of your own claims of legal knowledge.

> This is code for "I have absolutely no good arguments, or any legal justification, for why it is illegal, I just want to assert that it is illegal because I don't like it!".

Saying my argument is something I didn’t write is just a dishonest and lazy move. What I wrote isn’t code for anything. You seem to be unable to handle my points as they were written.

You also didn’t respond to my rebuttal of your actual position. Let’s try again:

> that make life harder for smaller developers Nobody is making the Apple App store illegal. Those developers can continue to use that, if they prefer it. It is just other companies can choose something else if they want.

This simply isn’t true.

If a developer has to negotiate with a multitude of different stores, each with different rules, their life will be harder.

Given that the alternative is to lose access to customers, it’s the small developers who will be harmed most by this.

These bills are supported by giant corporations who want to run their own stores. It’s just about them taking a cut, and has nothing to do with consumers or small developers.

> What I wrote isn’t code for anything.

Since you are not quick on the uptake to figure out what I was saying, I will spell it out explicitly.

When I said it was a "code", I didn't literally mean that you were speaking in code, like some sort of cryptographic secret language. Instead I was making fun of you, for asserting that the laws were illegal, without any actual justification.

You originally stated "It’s unlikely to pass judicial review". And you just asserted it. With no justification.

And then later, when I pressed you on it, your only justification, for why you think these laws are illegal is "That remains to be seen.". Which isn't an argument for why the laws might be illegal.

I was assuming that when you said "It’s unlikely to pass judicial review", that you might actually have a reason for why you think the law is illegal, other than "That remains to be seen.". But I guess I was wrong on thinking that you had a reason.

You had no actual reason or justification, for why these laws could be illegal, even though there are multiple laws, attempting to be passed in all sorts of countries, such as the EU, which you were wrong about.

You just said it was illegal, and said we'll have to wait to find out, lol. Thats not a reason, because you don't have any.

I do expect that it won’t pass judicial review. However that is a discussion for another time. Remember the proposal hasn’t come before either house yet. Imagining the law is an instantaneous process seems misguided.

So you’ve now wasted comment after comment merely ‘making fun of’ that opinion without adding any substance. I assume that’s because you aren’t really sure of your position.

Perhaps this is just bluster to distract us from the fact that you didn’t respond to my rebuttal of your actual position. Let’s try again:

> that make life harder for smaller developers Nobody is making the Apple App store illegal. Those developers can continue to use that, if they prefer it. It is just other companies can choose something else if they want.

This simply isn’t true.

If a developer has to negotiate with a multitude of different stores, each with different rules, their life will be harder.

Given that the alternative is to lose access to customers, it’s the small developers who will be harmed most by this.

These bills are supported by giant corporations who want to run their own stores. It’s just about them taking a cut, and has nothing to do with consumers or small developers.

> I do expect that it won’t pass judicial review. However that is a discussion for another time.

So then you have asserted this, without any reason at all, which was my entire point. You have no reason or justification for thinking that the law is illegal. You just said "Its illegal, and I have no reason why I think that!".

And before you say it, when I said that Quote, I am not literally saying that you said those words, instead I am saying how you didn't give a reason, and just asserted that it was illegal, with no justification.

> So you’ve now wasted comment

When you make a completely unsubstantiated comment, with no justification, it is important to keep it on point, so that you don't just shrug your shoulders and ignore it. Because you have made multiple false statements, and then when I point out the false statements, you just ignore that.

You similarly disagreed with me, that there were other countries trying to pass similar laws, by just saying "no they aren't", when actually they are, and you can easily google these EU laws that people are writing.

When you keep on making completely false statements like that, it is important to point out, so that you are aware of how little you know about this topic.

>> I do expect that it won’t pass judicial review. However that is a discussion for another time.

> So then you have asserted this, without any reason at all, which was my entire point. You have no reason or justification for thinking that the law is illegal. You just said "Its illegal, and I have no reason why I think that!".

No I didn’t say it’s illegal. Where did I say that?

I said I expect that it won’t pass judicial review. That is what I expect.

> Because you have made multiple false statements, and then when I point out the false statements, you just ignore that.

You haven’t pointed out a single false statement. It seems like you’re just descending into outright lies now.

If you can quote a false statement I made rather that making one up, then I’ll reconsider that opinion.

It seems like you are are just lying to distract from the fact that you didn’t respond to my rebuttal of your actual position.

Let’s try again:

> that make life harder for smaller developers Nobody is making the Apple App store illegal. Those developers can continue to use that, if they prefer it. It is just other companies can choose something else if they want.

This simply isn’t true.

If a developer has to negotiate with a multitude of different stores, each with different rules, their life will be harder.

Given that the alternative is to lose access to customers, it’s the small developers who will be harmed most by this.

These bills are supported by giant corporations who want to run their own stores. It’s just about them taking a cut, and has nothing to do with consumers or small developers.

> No I didn’t say it’s illegal

Ok, so expect that it will be declared illegal. As in, "it won’t pass judicial review". That is what I meant by that statement.

I am saying that you are claiming that " it won’t pass judicial review", but you didn't give a reason or justification for why that would be case.

> You haven’t pointed out a single false statement

The most obvious false statement, would be the one that I just quoted of you, in that post. Which would be when you said "no they aren't", in response to me, when I said that other countries were trying to pass similar laws.

A similar law, would be the EU laws that are being written right now. So that is the false statement. It would be how you were not aware of those similar EU laws.

> If you can quote a false statement

The quote is "No they aren't", in response to my statements about these EU laws. I literally quoted that in my previous post.

I’m not ‘claiming’ it won’t pass judicial review. I am stating an opinion. Do you understand that?

I don’t think the EU laws are similar. That is another opinion.

Neither of these statements are false. You may disagree with my opinions but it’s delusional to confuse opinion with fact.

You are lying when you say I’m making false statements. to distract from the fact that you didn’t respond to my rebuttal of your actual position.

Let’s try again:

> that make life harder for smaller developers Nobody is making the Apple App store illegal. Those developers can continue to use that, if they prefer it. It is just other companies can choose something else if they want.

This simply isn’t true.

If a developer has to negotiate with a multitude of different stores, each with different rules, their life will be harder.

Given that the alternative is to lose access to customers, it’s the small developers who will be harmed most by this.

These bills are supported by giant corporations who want to run their own stores. It’s just about them taking a cut, and has nothing to do with consumers or small developers.

> I am stating an opinion.

So an opinion with absolutely no stated reason or justification. Thats my point. It is entirely unjustified, with no stated reason for it.

> I don’t think the EU laws are similar.

So then you are not aware of the EU laws being considered and written right now, that would force Apple and Google to allow competing app stores, and allow people to bypass the Apple fee.

That is the missing piece of information, that you do not have, that makes your statement false.

>> I am stating an opinion.

>So an opinion with absolutely no stated reason or justification. Thats my point. It is entirely unjustified, with no stated reason for it.

So you you knew it was an opinion and lied when you called it a false statement.

>> I don’t think the EU laws are similar.

>> So then you are not aware of the EU laws being considered and written right now, that would force Apple and Google to allow competing app stores, and allow people to bypass the Apple fee.

You are delusional if you think you know what I am or am not aware of.

> That is the missing piece of information, that you do not have,

As I say, you are delusional if you think you know whether I have that information or not.

> that makes your statement false.

No, it just makes it your opinion that the bills are similar, and my opinion that they are not.

This bizarre obsession is clearly just to distract from responding to my rebuttal of your actual position. Let’s try again:

> that make life harder for smaller developers Nobody is making the Apple App store illegal. Those developers can continue to use that, if they prefer it. It is just other companies can choose something else if they want.

This simply isn’t true.

If a developer has to negotiate with a multitude of different stores, each with different rules, their life will be harder.

Given that the alternative is to lose access to customers, it’s the small developers who will be harmed most by this.

These bills are supported by giant corporations who want to run their own stores. It’s just about them taking a cut, and has nothing to do with consumers or small developers.

> So you you knew it was an opinion

I don't make much of distinction between an opinion, and making a statement. I only went with that, because apparently calling it an "opinion" is important to you, for reasons that are a mystery.

I am happy to call it an "opinion" because my main point is not whether it is a statement, or an opinion, of which I don't care or make much of a distinction, my main point is that you still did not give any reason or justification for it.

> whether I have that information or not.

Well since I just mentioned it, I now know that you are aware that the EU is working on laws that allow alternative apps stores.

And if you are aware of it, then your statements, or opinions, or whatever you want to call them, are false, because that is a pretty clear similarity.

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