Former German chancellor Gerhard Schröder nominated to join Gazprom’s board | Hacker News Reader

Former German chancellor Gerhard Schröder nominated to join Gazprom’s board

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48 pointssofixa20 comments

There’s a view that countries which have deep and mutually dependent trade relationships have too much to lose to go to war with one another. The success of the European Union in this respect appears to validate this view. I’m not saying it’s correct, it’s just that German dependence on Russian gas, and Russian dependence on German gas payments isn’t necessarily a bad outcome for two old foes.

Yes, economic interdependence is helpful, but it's most helpful when (a) the dependence is bilateral by having a uniform market like la Communauté Européenne du Charbon et de l'Acier which you alluded to; (b) the market directly relates to materials of war (again, like the CECA); and (c) the war you're trying to avoid is direct and violent, rather than, say, a plausibly deniable false flag operation to annex part of a nearby nation.

Germany can't build steel rifles and tanks to invade France if it needs France to make things out of steel. I don't think it follows that Russia can't annex any European nation's territory if it likes getting money from Germany.

Agree: @biologist123's assessment is part day dreaming, part naive, and part right. Still.

Russia?

Since WWII most other countries have moved on in a serious way. Look at China and Japan now v. 1945. Look at Germany. Russia is the laggard. In particular there are certain to be economics involved in selling natural gas, but Germany seems a little too needy for it, and Russia can't seem to take no for answer. Neither one of them can seem to stop hanging out in the alleyway to explain what's going on out here in the light.

Germany-Russia from what I can tell tends to have dynamics of a 3-way love triangle with the 3rd vertex reality: first they're together, then they fight, then retire to a neutral corner.

There is another view that these “old foes” are dividing east europe again. At the end of the day its convenient for germany to have an underdeveloped east europe as it is for russia to have a long buffer between its citizens and west european values. A win win situation that indeed prevents war. The view goes on to say that attempting to ban nuclear eu wide will make europe even more dependant on russia, enabling to latter to blackmail the continent as it pleases. And finally, the less common view is that germany and russia both grinned a bit when the uk left the eu after germany conveniently pushed for mass migration (at the same time russia defending the push factor government of syria) while it being a decisive vote swinger in the uk. Fun times we live in.

A lot to unpack in your post, but to tackle just the most egregious one: what would Germany have to gain in keeping its neighbors poor? German companies do far more trade with Poland than Russia, not to mention the other Eastern EU (Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, baltics) and non-EU countries. Germany has every interest in helping the East develop and do so. E.g. in 2020 they quickly pushed for joint EU bonds to inject money into the eastern countries (and Italy and Spain)

> Germany have to gain in keeping its neighbors poor?

Cheap labor that's also close? I don't know how big the impact would be if they were to go away, but e.g. agriculture relies on eastern europeans as farmhands, and the construction industry as well.

And most important lower tech, meaning less competition for german made products. You know, better keep them east europeans developed enough to rid germany of old cars and hardware but poor enough to prevent them from manufacturing their own as they wouldnt afford the bleeding edge tech required to meed demand, and ideally, they wouldnt be able to invest in cheap nuclear power to lower costs. So while east eu products are deemed low quality, germany is perfectly fine with importing chinese products that barely meet eu standards.

> E.g. in 2020 they quickly pushed for joint EU bonds to inject money into the eastern countries (and Italy and Spain)

Basically to subsidise buying german products. While Italy and Spain have a debt issue, east eu has an entry barrier issue, always playing catchup with expensive eu regulation. Take nuclear. We know what country pushes for an eu wide ban and thats a basic example of what east eu needs to lower costs.

The only “benefit” of german imposed economic policies is that they sunk south europe to a stage where if east europe is smart it can overtake it economically. But you know made in east eu is low quality yet made in china is fine, so say the germans.

I thought he had been working for Gazprom basically since his chancellorship, as chief Putinversteher. It's funny to see Germans scramble for gas like it's 1960, we should be scrambling away from it in the 2020s. Putin really set himself up well with Nordstream and Schroeder. How much of a topic is this in German media?

I would say when ever it is reasonable to thing it up.

I never did understand how this wasn't the scandal of the century in Germany. The logical reaction to this actions should have been to throw out all business he was involved in, IMHO.

Schröder's actions were only marginally less embarrassing than Trump's Helsinki performance.

Germans are used to doing all sorts of business with Russia, including shady business. For all the speeches about values and human rights, business interests get de facto priority in German foreign policy.

There are some exceptions to that such as weapons and nuclear products, but gas isn't one of them.

That's the same for any country I think. It's just amazing that they are so knowingly surrendering an important component of national security in exchange as part of a frankly stupid strategy (converting house heating to gas, which as said is something surrounding countries did more than half a century ago). Were they building gas fired power plants and getting people to install electric heat pumps, in anticipation of sufficient green production capacity, I would understand it better.

It's such a bad plan on many fronts, that I really struggle to understand how an otherwise pretty rational political culture arrived at it.

Fear of nuclear tech contributed to this sequence of decisions.

It is an old German (and Austrian) problem, which actually predates Chernobyl by at least a decade. Targeted Soviet propaganda might have played a role; Soviets were very interested in getting Allied nuclear weapons out of West Germany. Spreading all kinds of FUD about the "Atom" in general was a way to cultivate public opinion towards that goal.

It is a low temperature scandal, and goes into media whenever there is something news worthy.

In Germany it is totally normal that former politicians switch sides and get high profile jobs in private corporations, often as influencers.

Even active MdB / Abgeordnete could earn millions, they only need to publish the rough dimension of their earnings.

As former chancellor, Schröder is granted a free office with Secretary in Berlin payed by taxpayer money about 0.5 M€ annually, and there are initiatives to abolish this service because of his Gazprom connection.

The strong connections between private economy and government is seen as a key success factor for Germany‘s economy, called Deutschland AG in the 1970‘s (Germany PLC).

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der

The list of side income of elected members of the German parliament (2019) (German only) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Nebeneink%C3%BCnfte_...

An interesting way of getting bribes. Enact laws, quit politics, work for whomever the law was dedicated for, get a large salary, do nothing basically. This type of corruption is reflected in the eu as well, and not just german ex politicians but also french. Thank god the eu is pushing the little players such as italy and spain into arresting their politicians for doing the same. Who wants competition anyway?

> I never did understand how this wasn't the scandal of the century in Germany.

Just look at what other politicians do. Gazprom, Palantir etc. are good employment opportunities.

On related note former prime minister of Latvia is also head of Latvia's gazprom branch now

Developed countries aren't immune from corruption, the economy is simply big enough that parasites aren't lethal.

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