The second Seinfeld and Gates Microsoft ad | Hacker News Reader

The second Seinfeld and Gates Microsoft ad

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57 pointshalo82 comments

It's ironic. Just months after a much publicized retirement that emphasized "Microsoft after Gates", Microsoft wants to build some brand. And who do they bring back?

Is there Microsoft beyond Gates? More broadly, what does it take for a startup to outlive its founders?

More broadly, what does it take for a startup to outlive its founders?

A very interesting question. All I can really give is, it probably has a lot to do with the popularity and recognizability of said founder(s) not to mention their stories, their time with the company, and numerous other factors that all together make it a lot easier for the company to outlive its founders.

A company whose well-being depends on the public charisma of its leaders is buying a ticket for a big crash.

But then, software companies are short-lived, compared to any other kind. Software technology is all about getting obsolete quickly while selling the next big thing. The trick is perhaps to keep doing so from within the same company.

"A company whose well-being depends on the public charisma of its leaders is buying a ticket for a big crash."

Not always. If it is done correctly, the company can live off their legacy for very long.

But it has to be done right.

Personally, I think Apple will have a really hard time after Jobs leaves (much moreso than when he left before).

I wouldn't recognise Steve Ballmer if I walked by him on the street. Unless he was begging..

or yelling at people and throwing chairs..

What if he was throwing chairs?

Edit: damn, I should refresh before posting...

The next set of commercials might have bonding between Steve Balmer and Bobby Knight.

Here you go:

http://google.com/search?q=dancing+monkey+boy

wow! I'd never watched that video and it totally frightens me. Ballmer is kinda crazy! Watching him yell like that makes me totally uncomfortable.

As much as I think it's bad form to poke fun at someone's expense (especially when they are unable defend against it) I just had to link this video of Steve Ballmer doing an ad for Windows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvbWLfr-Z4s

I was waiting for him to try and give me a free set of steak knives to go with it.

You know, at this point, if I ever meet Bill Gates in real life, I'd be way too tempted to call him "Dave Thomas" while I shook his hand.

Here's hoping that never happens...

After seeing this second ad in this new microsoft ad campaign i'm definitely looking forward to the next installment. These are pretty funny and entertaining.

All things considered I think a lot of us are overanalyzing these ads. This is a $300 million ad account with crispin + porter + bogusky arguably one of the best ad agencies around. The size of this account ensures that this campaign will stretch over a year or more. I think the overall messege they are going for is fun. Microsoft isn't going to try to win this in the "cool and hip" area, so they are going for the "fun and useful". After this campaign runs for awhile you may have people looking at their pcs as fun ("I can play all my games on a pc but not a mac") and useful ("wow! pcs are everywhere, I know how to use a computer thats everywhere"). While I myself tend to overanylyze the underlying messages with these ads, I have to remember in doing so that just yesterday my mom was talking about how funny the shoe ad was and couldn't wait to check out the new one, so for the average consumer these ads will hit their target over time.

I can see where they're going with this, they're getting buzz about the ads by starting off with something "bad" and then gradually making it "better" - perhaps a nod to Vista?

Anyway, the 4 odd minutes was worth it to see Gates do the robot.

Wait, I can create buzz by creating something bad and gradually making it better? That sounds brilliant - suddenly a lot of my projects have gained a new perspective...

exhibit a) cuil

I rest my case.

Has cuil gained some traction now? I lost track when it was in the "bad" stage.

I can't say with any certainty, but I don't think the results are as relevant as Google, Yahoo or Live (I don't really know about ask as I haven't used it more than once or twice), but it still looks like the image results are very strange to the point of just being wrong. I wouldn't use Cuil if I was personally looking for anything at all, but I would (and do) use the 3 main ones interchangeably.

I just put in some example phrases that I thought would be no brainer's for any algorithm to work out.

For "TechCrunch" it gives me a Gmail beta image, 2 links to the techcrunch homepage and a link to some conference they had back in April, no mention of Michael Arrington whatsoever.

For "Google" it gives me earth.google.com as the main result but interestingly enough down near the Google Labs link, the image is a picture of a flying monkey (I don't know if anyone else sees this, so I took a screenshot)

For "Yahoo" first result is yahoo's homepage, but the included image is a banner ad.

For "Microsoft" the link to the microsoft homepage's accompanying text is about qbasic for dos. Also interestingly, the image attached to their research labs is the Apple logo, which might say something... screenshotted.

For "Apple" the first result is apple's home page, the accompanying image I can't make out but is definitely un-apple-like... it's a black screen with what looks like the letters "LCA" in gray.

So next stage I'll give it some results which shouldn't be "top tier".

For "Y Combinator" the first result happens to be YC, with the YC logo so grats guys.

For "Warhammer Online" the result links to their homepage, but the attached image is a tiny sponsor image at the footer of the page.

For "Calacanis" it gave me a link to Jason's weblog, the attached image is a pie of some variety. Also interestingly enough the wikipedia entry has the Lost splash graphic.

For "Paul Graham" it seemed like everything works great, Paul's pic is up the top, until down the bottom theres a pic of someone who I can't determine, but it looks like he could have come from the set of a 70's porn film.

Now last phase would be some out there phrases, stuff that would be more difficult for the engine but could be considered relevant to someone who lived in my city. I figure we're the most isolated city on the planet (in terms of distance to anything), so lets see what it could do. For kicks, I turned safe search off.

Since I just did PG, I figured I would throw in my name for laughs, "Mark Lancaster", the very first result I could find even mildly related to me is page 16, which is someone who's befriended me on Digg and shows me on their friends list. My personal blog was on page 22 which they haven't seemed to have visited since mid June. Interestingly enough I just did the same for Google, Yahoo and Live and I was results 4, 1 and 1 respectively.

Something more specific "Perth Bell Tower", a page of pure spam sites.

I typed in a large mining town in our state "Kalgoorlie" that is well known for the amount of gold it produces, the first result for me happened to be about Hay Street which as I just found out is red light district. Interesting.

Ok, something a little more obvious since it doesn't seem to play nice with niche terms, how about "Perth", being the city I live in. All the results point to the town of Perth in Scotland, which has a population of 40,000 people, whereas my Perth is a city with a population of 1.5 million. I followed up with "Perth City" thinking that it might point to the actual city called Perth, and not a town - but still points to Perth, Scotland. Perhaps the results might need tweaking there as I'm sure they don't take location by IP address into account in their algorithms, which many other sites (not just search engines) can manage to do.

I don't think any of the other big 3 have anything to fear just yet, the formatting of the pages are nice, but the results just don't seem to be all that relevant which is a shame and I do hope they fix it.

Ive got so many cars I get stuck in my own traffic. lol

Much better than the first.

Agreed, though it still does little to convey any sort of useful message. I thought this campaign would be targeting Vista as opposed to brand awareness but apparently that's not the case.

I think its pretty clear where this is going. "Windows... for real people."

I dunno... so far the ads have made me want churros and gourmet mustard more than Windows.

Microsoft has much bigger problems than Vista. Their stronghold on the OS market is strong enough that they can probably stand 1 bad release. Only if Windows 7 screws up will they have real problems in terms of market share & bottom line.

The bigger problem for Microsoft is that they're just not cool anymore. Not for prospective customers, not for prospective employees, and not for prospective partners. That's why I think brand awareness is what they're going after with all this.

I think that's it too. I was just talking to someone the other day who was with IBM back when MS kicked their butts in the battle between Windows and OS/2. OS/2 was technically superior in many ways, but he was saying that at conferences it was a bunch of old guys with sore feet at the IBM table, and hot women with loud music and lots of giveaways at the MS booth. Where would you rather be?

MS isn't perceived as exciting and new and hip these days, and needs to bring back some youth and fun, which Mac seems to have plenty of at the moment.

Doesn't need to convey a message, its just to get you all talking about it. Its working.

Yeah but we talk about microsoft all the time anyway. Who else is it reaching?

We talk about Microsoft all the time, but rarely is it as positive as this.

Bill Gates actually made me laugh.

Yeah, the last time Microsoft made me laugh in a way that wasn't basically Linux newbie's schadenfreude was in Coupland's _Microserfs_.

On a scale of 1-10, how funny would it have to be for your next computer not to be a mac?

That's why it's a failure.

It's a branding thing for the whole company. The idea is to slightly reduce the ickiness some people feel when the name comes up. Not to directly sell anything.

Or, like, it's reintroducing the company to the world. "Now with less evil!"

Sounds like something from Futurama.

Yes, Microsoft = Mom's Robots. In the public eye, try to portray yourself as likable. While behind closed doors, the real Microsoft is revealed.

Remember, at Microsoft, all buttons retaliate.

Actually, I liked the first one as well. Maybe there were some old geek sentiments involved, but for me it was just a good watch. I liked it more that the pc-vs-mac ad.

Definitely better than the pc-vs-mac ad, which makes me want to kick the smug dude in the crotch.

I still just don't get it. Maybe that's the point or maybe I'm dumb.

LOL @ Bill reading the story. "The fact that a design uses inheritance in polymorphism doesn't make it a good design--" "are there any monsters in this story?"

The fact that both ads have been understood in so many different ways (here, on the blogosphere) shows that the message isn’t clear and in marketing that means trouble. Thus, being funny (for some more, for some less, for some not at all) or being talked about isn’t going to improve Microsoft’s image or sell more licenses (in particular of the problem child Vista). Apple, with the Mac vs. PC campaign, has a clear message besides being funny (not to me, but many like it) and being talked about.

I have the opinion that the 'misunderstandings' largely consist of either preconceived notions of what the ad campaign would be like or, more commonly, anti-Microsoft sentiment repeatedly raising its ugly head and any Microsoft advertising campaign would not please those people. I think the ads are generally quite strong - kooky, memorable, unique and a talking point... if not particularly funny (FWIW, I didn't find Seinfeld funny either) and a little long. I think they do the job they set out to do well.

So, I would ask you (and, as an extension, the Hacker News hivemind):

What would make a good Microsoft ad campaign that the collective Internet would have actually liked and not heaped scorn on? Note that this pretty much precludes mentioning Vista positively in any way anyhow...

Your first paragraph (the second part) is your opinion and how you perceived the ads. Fine. Everyone has (and should have) an opinion and a perception. It's personal. But for a marketer, the opinions and perceptions of the mass is what counts. If the "herd" doesn't move (preferably run) in the same direction then either my cowboys don't know the destination (the aim of the campaign, which is not to be funny or be talked about or be hip - those are the products of the campaign) or if they do, they don't know how to drive the cattle (which is, communicating where to go). In many cases (campaigns), the cowboys fail at both.

Ad hoc I don't have any ideas for a good Microsoft campaign. Any suggestion of mine, out of the blue, is shooting bullets in the air. Yeah, but it would be a nice way to feed my ego. :-) Using "hard" (like Mac vs. PC ads) or "soft" approach (by not mentioning the product explicitly) for the execution of the ads is almost secondary.

PS - I have spent most of my life as a developer and entrepreneur with Microsoft products (by choice). And I'm a Seinfeld fan-boy. But, that is not relevant when we're discussing this campaign.

"I have the opinion that the 'misunderstandings' largely consist of either preconceived notions of what the ad campaign would be like or, more commonly, anti-Microsoft sentiment repeatedly raising its ugly head and any Microsoft advertising campaign would not please those people."

They're trying to change anti-Microsoft sentiment with these ads. If the ad does nothing for people who don't like Microsoft, than arguably, it is a total failure.

The trick isn't to convince the hard line critics, but to marginalize them. The vast majority of people have no hard fast opinions on the matter and are only aware of what the trends are. If Microsoft can put out a positive message and get that message repeated and talked about, the naysayers will begin to look silly. There's just enough latent resentment against the snobbishness of the Mac campaigns for this to work.

This is not just marketing, it's politics. You could draw parallels to current US presidential election, but I won't because I know where it will lead.

I'm just loving that YouTube listed "Firework scares my punjabi neighbor" as a "Related Video."

Man if I was a shareholder in Microsoft I would be worried. There spending money on this... what about making their products better. Whatever the quality of microsoft now it doesn't matter because I switched to Mac specifically because my computer crashed constantly , lost files, and gave me nightmares. They need to get my friend telling me , " Dude, I have been using Vista and I love it, " end of story. I don't hear this anywhere. Is Vista that bad ? Probably not, but not bad isn't going to take back business from Apple, and change any previous negative perception that many people have of Microsoft products. A good Ad-campaign does little if you don't have substance behind it.

Odd: Gates doing the robot shows he is human.

The fact that we are talking about their ads means that the campaign is working.

not necessarily, we could be talking in our spare time!

people are still talking about cuil, but it's still an epic failure. There is such a thing as bad publicity.

Crispin Porter is once again rebranding through awkwardness.

It's making me feel like Microsoft is a company from a Wes Anderson movie.

I love it when funny people help not funny people be funny. Gates should have hired Seinfeild a long time ago...

funnier than the first. still not that funny, though.

I liked.

How did they get in that house? I mean if they're going to tell a story, I'd love some continuity.

Perhaps they got in through one of the...

I heard there was a back door.

Are we sure this isn't a pilot for a new spring season replacement show for NBC. Maybe a reality show featuring Jerry and Bill -- it's not "The Simple Life" but rather "The Billionare Life"

4 minutes seems like a long ad, what does the short version look like?

Same thing except a lot more cuts, and it ends right after the dad says 'Gates and Seinfeld...!'

The long version of this ad does a better job of conveying the 'normal people' theme, but the short version is as confusing as the first.

Do you think the reference to the "old car with weeds growing over it's tires" is a reference to mac os x being built on top of *nix?

No. It's a reference to the nosy suburbanite stereotype. Cars weren't featured enough in the commercial for it to work as a Mac vs PC metaphor.

Anyone know where it was shot? It looks like somewhere around Seattle. West Seattle maybe? Magnolia?

Too flat for Magnolia, could be out in Kirkland or Bellevue.

The streets seem too wide for West Seattle, too. I'm guessing somewhere in old Redmond.

Looks like Ballard in Seattle.

FMI http://www.myballard.com/2008/09/11/microsoft-ad-set-in-ball...

They should have used iMovie!

This is one of the most disturbing things I've seen in a long time.

I wish that was a movie commercial - it looks so good!

That giraffe has been in our family for six years.

It's playing up to the mac ads.

Why are News.YC submitters/voters so eager to do Microsoft's marketing for them?

First, I think the News.YC crowd is least likely to be swayed by MS' marketing.

Second, I don't think this is "doing Microsoft's marketing". You'll probably find a fair number of critical comments too.

The comments pro or con are irrelevant; the submission and ranking (currently the #2 story) are my concerns.

We're giving free placement to a company that is (1) rich enough to buy our attention, if it needs it; (2) arguably 'dead' as an animating force for our industry (as in PG's 'Microsoft is Dead' essay).

Their desperate-but-cutesy ad campaign does not deserve to be our 'news'. Voting up this goofball lowbrow crap makes us into Microsoft's tools. This is spam.

Nonsense. The ad is interesting and faintly amusing, and the advertising strategy from which it is drawn is worthy of discussion. I think you are vastly overreacting to say it is "goofball lowbrow crap", or that it "makes us into Microsoft's tools": YCers are more than capable of viewing an ad without being brainwashed, I think.

Again missing the point. Of course we won't be brainwashed. We're all media-savvy and generally ad-resistant.

But should a 4+ minute skit from Microsoft be 'top of mind' news for hackers? Did watching it make you a better hacker? Did it give you marketing insights that work for anyone other than a fading monopolist with money to burn on sitcom celebrities? Do the best hackers spend a lot of time watching, and chit-chatting about, giant companies' clumsy viral marketing efforts?

The value here is in finding what is uncommon. Content-free celebrity-filled Microsoft ad campaigns are as depressingly common as you can get.

"You'll probably find a fair number of critical comments too."

Sure, all of them downmodded, which proves his point that HN got invaded by microsoft shills.

would be much funnier if they gave Gates some jokes.. how bad can he be?

Fail

yeah

The message is clear: "Windows, for IQs 100 and below".

And "OS X, for IQs 50 and below"?

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