It's fine to disagree with the protesters, but at least be honest about what they want. They've been squeezed off online platforms and out of mainstream discourse, and this is what happens when it bubbles over.
all modern causes are normal people on both sides with a few crazies because thats how populations work
There is no reason to ever allow Nazis to have any sort of freedom. We literally had a world war about this.
No moral self-examination, disgust of the outgroup, arguing against private citizens' medical and bodily autonomy... does any of that sound familiar? What do you do when you realise you were the Nazi all along?
There is zero excuse for any group to put up with it.
What would it take for you to have an 'are we the baddies?' moment? Is symbology all that matters in that regard?
My original point stands, if you don't kick out a Nazi, your being absorbed into a Nazi movement.
I can certainly agree that humans tend to demonize the sins of the other while turning a blind eye to their own side's, but is that really what is happening here? To me it seems like this protest is of a different type.
(Not saying they were 100% peaceful,i know there was some unrest in montreal, but my understanding is it was quite minor and nothing like what you are describing)
My own image searches only turn up upside-down Canadian flags, "Fuck Trudeau" slogans, and stuff about "freedom". I'd have to think that if somebody really wanted to undermine them and had such a photo, they'd have posted it.
How bad is the reporting? I checked the NYT; https://archive.fo/Jny6X
It's not awful in any obvious way.
It does describe the protest as "mostly peaceful". As that phrase is a little notorious, I laughed a little. Since NYT staff spend a lot of time on Twitter, I imagine they know the significance. But hey, if it was peaceful and they said so, then they've done their job ok there.
The headline does have some negative connotations: The convoy "descends on Ottowa" (not, I dunno, "protesters gather to demand justice").
And there is one sentence that is incendiary enough that it really needs more context:
"Some of them carried Canadian flags upside down; at least one flag had swastikas drawn on it."
This invites the reader to draw one conclusion, but the meaning may be something else, as in my first paragraph.
So I'd have to see to be sure. But no photos are forthcoming.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
It's weird how people want so, so badly to be in some counterculture. And to be "owed" something, in the moral accounting. That Green Day song plays in my head, with the music video: "I Want to be a Minority!"
I guess we sort of have a word for this, ressentiment? It's close, but not exactly.
Vaccine cards (I am vaccinated and boosted and would have done it based on my own decision making) feel significantly similar to me. As in Russia, when dealing with totalitarian aspects of government, I find it easier to just comply, but if I had more free time on my hands I would refuse to show the card on principle. Needless to say politicians advocating for these would never get my vote...
That's what's beautiful about giving government arbitrary power that is so broad it is not always used "in reality" - it gives individual actors discretion to discriminate. Like with literacy tests to vote, war on drugs, etc.
This is just poor student level; I bet others paid much more, Moscow road police were legendary, although I didn't drive so cannot confirm.
That said I think it's a separate issue from unprompted ID checks, although one could facilitate the other.
Again, I'm not seeing the connection you're trying to make and if you want to see similar tactics employed by police in the USA, I recommend YouTube. The interesting part is I have a vaccine card and I've never been asked to present it. Then again, I was immunized to serve anywhere in the world when I joined the military and saw it as a perk when I travelled abroad.
There's actually pretty large bounty to identify the person who was holding that nazi flag. The assertion is that this was not one of the protesters at all. Afterall the trucker convoy is quite diverse given so many truckers are Indian.
The CBC has been caught creating propaganda so many times: https://www.mississauga.com/news-story/7081133-opp-shuts-dow...
My favourite is this one: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/dear-qallunaat-white-pe...
Don't worry, the CBC clears says "racism against white people does not exist" right on that page. CBC is on the record they don't hire white people anymore: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cbc-no-caucasian
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So far, the “peaceful” protestors have desecrated the national war monument and the Terry Fox statue, flown multiple Nazi flags and Confederate flags and large numbers of “Fuck Trudeau” signs, stolen food from a soup kitchen, assaulted and threatened reporters, thrown rocks at ambulances, smashed car windows, threatened anyone wearing a mask, defecated on the lawn of a house flying a pride flag, harassed mall workers so badly that they had to close the stores for their safety, blocked paramedics and health care workers from getting to the hospital, intimidated Ottawa residents so badly that many are afraid to leave their homes, and openly threatened to murder the prime minister and overthrow the government on the exact spot Cpl Nathan Cirillo was murdered defending the seat of government from a gunman.
They're not OK with trucks going honk honk to the point of entertaining the idea of military intervention.
The hypocrisy and contradictions is expected at this point but never ceases to amaze me.
In what world is this a working class uprising? It has no meaningful ties to any labour movement, and it’s stated goal seems to be to force Trudeau to over rule provincial — not federal — mask mandates. All because this disorganized, disruptive and aimless rabble believe wearing a piece of cloth on your face is the deeply offensive and tyrannical.
Has anyone actually been squeezed off online platforms for saying they are against mask mandates? I’d be SHOCKED if you could find any evidence to back that up. People HAVE been denied access to PRIVATELY OWNED social media companies because they spread hate, unfounded political conspiracies and worryingly misleading medical misinformation.
Surely you’re not saying that there’s significant overlap between these two groups?
how would you describe it?
Not masks, but I've been banned from most of Reddit for posting CDC stats about covid vaccines, questioning their value for younger people, and recounting adverse reactions in people I know, as well as questioning lockdown measures. I don't use any other social media.
> worryingly misleading medical misinformation.
Most of that worrying misleading information is now acknowledged to be "science" now- like the fact that the original vaccine does not make a difference between likelihood of spreading Omicron. Or getting banned for ascribing the Lab Leak theory, which is pretty much accepted as the most likely cause.
> In what world is this a working class uprising? It has no meaningful ties to any labour movement, and it’s stated goal seems to be to force Trudeau to over rule provincial — not federal — mask mandates.
If it were only about mask mandates, this protest would have occurred a year ago. It's about bodily autonomy and right to work. Just because no other labor movements seem to care yet, doesn't mean this isn't a labor issue. I understand that it's a provincial issue largely, but the federal employee vaccine mandates are just that- federal.
And people have an issue with the federal guidelines, and federal pressure on provinces to fall in line. Much like the Biden admin has been "strongly encouraging" illegal federal mandates, but simply penning them and waiting for courts to challenge them. And incredibly incendiary statements blaming the pandemic on the unvaccinated instead of a host of other more relevant issues like our always-at-capacity healthcare system.
And this is just conjecture, but people do suspect federal involvement in non federal matters. Trudeau, in his recent address from his lake house, has a portion of his speech not directed at us- the general public, rather he addresses other politicians in a really creepy, dystopian tone.
> 'think long and hard about the consequences of your actions.'
Either way, people are sick of the lockdowns and government overreach, none of which has been particularly effective, while simultaneously being detrimental, especially to those at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Not everyone has the privilege of working from home.
> Either way, people are sick of the lockdowns and government overreach, none of which has been particularly effective...
How could you possibly know this? We don't have an alternate universe we can examine to see how things would have gone globally without public health measures.
> while simultaneously being detrimental, especially to those at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. Not everyone has the privilege of working from home.
Yah, I do fully agree that the public health measures pursued have had a negative financial impact on those more economically vulnerable who work in low paying jobs. But at the same time, these are the people who most need protection, as they don't have much job mobility and have to work on the front lines. You know what's worse than getting paid less? Dying from covid, or being unable to work because of COVID, or suffering the long-term effects we don't fully understand yet. I've heard so many horror stories from people working in grocery stores, etc, where there are mask requirements (In some cases, implemented not because of government legislation, but rather because the private businesses decide it's appropriate) that are routinely ignored by customers. These customers, when confronted, often become verbally or physically abusive (AFAIK there was a story about a security guard being murdered somewhere in the states).
Just FYI, I work in a customer facing job (onsite IT), and have been working in an office with a large number of people for almost the whole pandemic. I have to a wear a mask 8-9 hours a day. I say this because I don't want you to assume I'm arguing in favour of something that I won't be subject to.
This is why I'm skeptical of the push towards unionization I see of late. I'm from a working-class neighbourhood. I first heard about this protest on social media from high school friends who went into blue-collar professions. This is as grassroots and working class a movement as I've ever seen. But because it's not endorsed by major unions that have to negotiate with major employers, it's seen as 'not legitimate'. The argument seems to be that a labour movement needs a managerial class at the top or it's not really workers uniting. Ironically, the managerial class is somewhat besieged at the moment because it's possible to automate a lot of the organisation we used to perform, such as what is needed for something like this. Whether there's Koch brothers funding behind it or not, the Freedom convoy enjoys incredible working class support, to claim otherwise because it lacks 'officialdom' is an irony I hope we can all laugh at someday.
@yesenadam, any concerns about my wording?
I see it as a working class uprising. Trudeau called them a 'fringe minority' but such a minority also requires the military to remove them? They also need their funds frozen?
>and it’s stated goal seems to be to force Trudeau to over rule provincial — not federal — mask mandates. All because this disorganized, disruptive and aimless rabble believe wearing a piece of cloth on your face is the deeply offensive and tyrannical.
Mask manadates have been ongoing for 2 years. What's new is that on Jan 15th Canada's federal government made vaccination mandatory for truckers. Provinces are powerless here, CBSA is entirely federal. CBSA will be enforcing this rule mostly at the border.
So truckers who never even cross the border are still potentially subject to proving they are vaccinated. Though that's far less probable and on top of that a high percentage of truckers are fully vax.